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Flyers sign Shea Weber to 14-year offer sheet ($7.857M Cap Hit) (Pt VI)

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07-20-2012, 02:21 PM
  #1
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Flyers sign Shea Weber to 14-year offer sheet ($7.857M Cap Hit) (Pt VI)

FAQ
1. What's the compensation? The average value is just 7.857M, doesnt that mean it's only 2 firsts, a 2nd, and a 3rd?
A: No, as per CBA 10.4, the term used in an offersheet calculation is the lower of the term of the contract and five years. 110M/5 = 22M. 22M > 8.4M. Compensation is four first round picks.

2: How long does nashville have to make a decision?
A: Per CBA 10.3 B+C, if nashville does not exercise their right of first refusal within seven days, Shea Weber can sign a contract with the flyers matching the terms of this offersheet.

3: Can nashville match and trade him?
A: Nashville cannot trade him for one calendar year from the time they match the offersheet. If they wait the full seven days, they cannot trade him until July 26th 2013 (CBA 10.3 B)

4: Wait, what if there's an NTC/NMC? Then isnt Nashville stuck with this contract?
A: Nashville only has to match the principal terms of the offersheet, meaning the salary/signing bonuses/structure. (CBA 10.3 B+E)

5. What if nashville trades him right now to another team?
A: Nashville cannot trade him once he has signed the offersheet (CBA 10.3 A)

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07-20-2012, 02:22 PM
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If it isn't against the rules to repost from the end of the last thread:

I think it would be hilarious if Nashville ownership told Poile he can't match, but he can have a tiny bit of the money to try to poach all of the Flyers' best scouts.

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07-20-2012, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
If Nashville matches the offersheet, its not like they can expect their top pair to suck.

It would still have Weber on it. It's still going to be one of the better pairs in the league, regardless of who his partner is.

Their first defense pair goes from dominant to very good.

The rest of their team is probably still good enough to make the playoffs without Ryan Suter.
Exactly. The loss of Suter is much more easily offset than the loss of Weber would be. With the Western Conference being what it is, you could see Nashville still finishing between 6-8 next season with Weber. From there, all you'd have to do is ride a hot goalie (and they've got one that fits the mold) and you could make a run at the Cup. But who am I kidding? Teams finishing between 6-8 NEVER ride hot goalies and win Cups...

Quote:
Originally Posted by randymc2641 View Post
Ok check this out. Weber will get 13 mil next year. He made 7.5 last year so that's 5.5 mil to come up with. Suter made 3.5 so that's 2 mil to come up with. Pekka went up what 4 mil? Maybe less, so we will have to spend 6 mil more than last year. On top of that we save money over last year on both Erat and Legwand's contracts, so I think for next season we will have to come up with somewhere around 3-4 mil. Research is your friend.
This is still the best post I've read on the entire subject. But many fans (especially PHI fans) seem to conveniently ignore this research, but I guess that's just wishful thinking on their part (and I guess I can't blame the PHI fans for wanting Nashville to NOT match the offer sheet).

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07-20-2012, 02:29 PM
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Slightly OT: But from the FAQ's.. When is the deadline for Nash to match (approximately)?

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07-20-2012, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikael Backlund View Post
Slightly OT: But from the FAQ's.. When is the deadline for Nash to match (approximately)?
End of next Wednesday.

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07-20-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Unstable View Post
End of next Wednesday.
Thanks.

I was unsure if it was 7 business days, or 7 calendar days.

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07-20-2012, 02:33 PM
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I wonder how much Nashville would lose out on ticket sales and merchandise should they lose Weber. I imagine they'll match because of it.

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07-20-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
It's far-fetched to think that a defensively-oriented team that just lost their second-best defenseman will struggle without him?

Or is it far-fetched to think that a middle-of-the-pack team, that was already losing money when successful, will begin to lose more money anually?

I think Nashville struggling next season is extremely likely. Yeah, they can move Josi into the top pairing, but he won't be nearly as effective, and it opens up yet another hole.

Also, how does trading away Weber, the captain of the franchise, only a year after signing him, affect the fans?

What about the team?

The risk for this contract is huge, whether you want to believe it or not. That's why there's a delay in matching.

As a Flyers fan, I think they should/will match, but this contract is not "silver platter" some people are making it out to be. For teams that make money, this contract is fine. For teams that run an internal budget and lose money, this contract is a bit absurd. The only reason it's on the table is because the Flyers offered it instead of Nashville.
No, it's not far fetched to think the Preds might struggle after losing Sutter, but it's much more of a leap of faith to believe that they'll make the playoffs without Weber and Sutter, and that they wouldn't lose even more money than they are now in that situation.

Let's not crap on the team too much because of a poor playoffs. With Weber on the team, they are a solid defensive squad that should see their forwards score more as they develop.

Your second point is what I'm saying. They will absolutely lose more money if they start losing (ie not making the playoffs), and not signing Weber all but guarantees that.

I'm saying that should they struggle with Weber in the lineup next season, then they can say to the fans, and rightfully so, that things aren't working out for the team, and when they move him it's to move the team in a different direction. You know, covering your bases. Weber signed to that kind of contract would bring back enough quality and quantity players that you're not rebuilding. You're just going in a different direction.

You seem to think that I'm suggesting that everything will be perfect for the Preds going forward, and that's not my point at all. I'm saying weighing everything out, it makes more sense to "risk" keeping Weber than it is to let him go now.

I don't think Nashville will struggle next year. Far from it. I think they're going to be close to as good as they were last season, and they'll be dangerous in the playoffs.

As for your last point, I agree. This isn't the perfect contract for the Preds precisely because of the money up front. I also agree this is precisely why the Flyers drew it up the way they did. It works for them and makes it difficult for the Preds.

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07-20-2012, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Believe View Post
I wonder how much Nashville would lose out on ticket sales and merchandise should they lose Weber. I imagine they'll match because of it.
Certainly no more than the $27M Weber is owed by next year.

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07-20-2012, 02:35 PM
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So this likely drags out until Wednesday....I hope the mods have good knowledge of Roman numerals...

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07-20-2012, 02:40 PM
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Bort Sampson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat View Post
No, it's not far fetched to think the Preds might struggle after losing Sutter, but it's much more of a leap of faith to believe that they'll make the playoffs without Weber and Sutter, and that they wouldn't lose even more money than they are now in that situation.

Let's not crap on the team too much because of a poor playoffs. With Weber on the team, they are a solid defensive squad that should see their forwards score more as they develop.

Your second point is what I'm saying. They will absolutely lose more money if they start losing (ie not making the playoffs), and not signing Weber all but guarantees that.

I'm saying that should they struggle with Weber in the lineup next season, then they can say to the fans, and rightfully so, that things aren't working out for the team, and when they move him it's to move the team in a different direction. You know, covering your bases. Weber signed to that kind of contract would bring back enough quality and quantity players that you're not rebuilding. You're just going in a different direction.

You seem to think that I'm suggesting that everything will be perfect for the Preds going forward, and that's not my point at all. I'm saying weighing everything out, it makes more sense to "risk" keeping Weber than it is to let him go now.

I don't think Nashville will struggle next year. Far from it. I think they're going to be close to as good as they were last season, and they'll be dangerous in the playoffs.

As for your last point, I agree. This isn't the perfect contract for the Preds precisely because of the money up front. I also agree this is precisely why the Flyers drew it up the way they did. It works for them and makes it difficult for the Preds.
The bolded is the only part I disagree with. I think they'll make the playoffs, but I think they take a step back this season.

My only real problem with our logic is that it's extremely hard to predict the reaction of the fans to the outcomes we've discussed, but that's more than likely one of the things that is delaying Nashville's decision.

Otherwise great points.

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Old
07-20-2012, 02:40 PM
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Curious about offer sheet and I'll use the Weber example.

Does Philly get to talk to Weber at all or simply give the offer sheet? Can Philly negotiate terms or convince him to sign/come to Philadelphia? Can Philly go to Weber and say "Philly is a great place to live, we are close to a cup, and would like you to be BFF's with Giroux....oh and here's a 14 year deal".

Essentially, what are teams allowed to do when presenting offer sheets?

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07-20-2012, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MildlyAwesome View Post
Curious about offer sheet and I'll use the Weber example.

Does Philly get to talk to Weber at all or simply give the offer sheet? Can Philly negotiate terms or convince him to sign/come to Philadelphia? Can Philly go to Weber and say "Philly is a great place to live, we are close to a cup, and would like you to be BFF's with Giroux....oh and here's a 14 year deal".

Essentially, what are teams allowed to do when presenting offer sheets?
My understanding is because the player is not under contract he can discuss all of those details like any other free agent.

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07-20-2012, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MildlyAwesome View Post
Curious about offer sheet and I'll use the Weber example.

Does Philly get to talk to Weber at all or simply give the offer sheet? Can Philly negotiate terms or convince him to sign/come to Philadelphia? Can Philly go to Weber and say "Philly is a great place to live, we are close to a cup, and would like you to be BFF's with Giroux....oh and here's a 14 year deal".

Essentially, what are teams allowed to do when presenting offer sheets?
Weber is a free agent. I don't understand why people think that signing RFA and FA's are different.

The only difference is that Nashville has the option of matching.

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07-20-2012, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MildlyAwesome View Post
Curious about offer sheet and I'll use the Weber example.

Does Philly get to talk to Weber at all or simply give the offer sheet? Can Philly negotiate terms or convince him to sign/come to Philadelphia? Can Philly go to Weber and say "Philly is a great place to live, we are close to a cup, and would like you to be BFF's with Giroux....oh and here's a 14 year deal".

Essentially, what are teams allowed to do when presenting offer sheets?
Not only "can" they, they already have. He was in town being wined and dined over a few days a week or so ago. Weber's a RFA - teams are free to talk with him as they choose.

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07-20-2012, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
So this likely drags out until Wednesday....I hope the mods have good knowledge of Roman numerals...
Luongo threads tell me yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Certainly no more than the $27M Weber is owed by next year.
Maybe for the year but if they lose Weber you have to imagine they lose a lot of $$$ in things liek season ticket holders. I know I'd be pissed if my team let their last big 3 UFA dmen go (Weber, Suter & Hamhuis) 2 of which were in a single offseason.

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07-20-2012, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unstable View Post
If it isn't against the rules to repost from the end of the last thread:

I think it would be hilarious if Nashville ownership told Poile he can't match, but he can have a tiny bit of the money to try to poach all of the Flyers' best scouts.
I'd say the Preds scouts are doing just fine.

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07-20-2012, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by I Believe View Post
I wonder how much Nashville would lose out on ticket sales and merchandise should they lose Weber. I imagine they'll match because of it.
This is what most people are not considering. The long term revenue loss that would stem from losing the captain/face of the franchise and alienating the fanbase would be worse financially for Nashville than matching the offer.

Also the idea that ownership wouldn't be able to afford it seems farfetched. Small market or not it's an NHL franchise, it's not like they are running the club from a rented studio apartment.

I think it was a good move for Philly though, getting Weber is apparently a long shot, but they make sure he'll never play in the east.

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07-20-2012, 02:46 PM
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I honestly don't see how it's ok for other fanbases to troll the Predators's fans. Comments like good luck paying that with your budget are pathetic and need to stop now. Imagine how your team would feel if they just lost their two iconic players in a month's time. Mods need to step in cause I wouldn't blame them if they exploded on posters here. And for the record, flyers are easily my 2nd or 3rd favorite team and I hate the predators.
That's what you get with all the kiddies on this site.

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07-20-2012, 02:47 PM
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I'd say the Preds scouts are doing just fine.
Oh absolutely. I said hilarious, not necessary or useful.

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07-20-2012, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MildlyAwesome View Post
Curious about offer sheet and I'll use the Weber example.

Does Philly get to talk to Weber at all or simply give the offer sheet? Can Philly negotiate terms or convince him to sign/come to Philadelphia? Can Philly go to Weber and say "Philly is a great place to live, we are close to a cup, and would like you to be BFF's with Giroux....oh and here's a 14 year deal".

Essentially, what are teams allowed to do when presenting offer sheets?
Yup. In fact, Weber was in Philly a week or two ago checking out the facilities. He's an RFA, so he's still a player without a contract.

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07-20-2012, 02:53 PM
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I'll say it again. I was worried the flyers offseasons would getting boring when clarke left.


love love love flyers offseasons. makes me forget about them coming up short in the playoffs

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07-20-2012, 02:56 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
That's what you get with all the kiddies on this site.
I think Philly might know a thing or 2 about that quote.





edit: damn you butt hurt grammar nazis


Last edited by Scottrockztheworld*: 07-20-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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07-20-2012, 02:59 PM
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I think Philly might no a thing or 2 about that quote.
uh..?

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07-20-2012, 02:59 PM
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I think Philly might no a thing or 2 about that quote.
Or even "know" something.

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