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Flyers sign Shea Weber to 14-year offer sheet ($7.857M Cap Hit) (Pt VI)

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:22 PM
  #51
cobra427
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Preds still have a great goalie to rely on and Trotz is a good coach, so they can still make the playoffs without Weber. If they let him go, they get picks and cap space to acquire a top tier defensemen. Wins or losses are not guaranteed with or without Weber. The flyers made a huge mistake with Bryz, this could be one also, and it won't fix their Bryz problem.

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:23 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by stygian16 View Post
That's a fine use of 27 million dollars
Just pointing out that he is not neccesarily ou of Philly's division.

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:24 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TheAngryHank View Post
If the Preds sign him he could demand a trade if he wanted out,why I don't think they match.
Unless they can force a trade out of Philly, they have to match. Losing Hamhuis, Suter and Weber for essentially late firsts and nothing is the epitome of failure on a colossal level. If they opt not to I cannot imagine Poile retains his job.

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07-20-2012, 03:24 PM
  #54
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Weber

The deal they signed him to is a REAL good deal for Philly. Makes them SO tough to beat.

This could kill Nashville and if Polie and Holmgren are friends as rumored...its a d-bag thing to do.

That said as a Pens fan...I hope Nashville matches.

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:24 PM
  #55
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Wow I didn't know Poile let Scott Stevens go 20 years ago in a similar situation. At the time 5M for 4 years was too much for the owner

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:25 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by TheAngryHank View Post
If the Preds sign him he could demand a trade if he wanted out,why I don't think they match.
But they still owe him 12 million in a week regardless, so yes that would be absolute worst case scenario. Thought I read that if Weber holds out , he still gets all his bonuses, but forfeits his salary , is this true ?

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07-20-2012, 03:26 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
If anyone honestly thinks that if Weber is kept by the Preds he will be traded in a years time, you are delusional. If he stays a Predator, he'll be one for quite a while.
This. One does not simply pay 20+ million to a player and expect to trade him for a package.

TO those that want to use Heatley's July 1st bonus as an example...do remember that he got a 4mil bonus, not a 13+mil bonus.

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07-20-2012, 03:28 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra427 View Post
Preds still have a great goalie to rely on and Trotz is a good coach, so they can still make the playoffs without Weber. If they let him go, they get picks and cap space to acquire a top tier defensemen. Wins or losses are not guaranteed with or without Weber. The flyers made a huge mistake with Bryz, this could be one also, and it won't fix their Bryz problem.
Frankly, I doubt they are a playoff team devoid of Weber. A quick glance we have:

Vancouver
LA
Chicago
St. Louis
San Jose
Detroit
Minnesota
Dallas
----

You then have to account for Edmonton, Colorado, Calgary and Anaheim. Of course, it certainly could happen but based off present rosters. I do not see the likelihood.

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07-20-2012, 03:43 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by JS19 View Post
This. One does not simply pay 20+ million to a player and expect to trade him for a package.

TO those that want to use Heatley's July 1st bonus as an example...do remember that he got a 4mil bonus, not a 13+mil bonus.
nor does one simply walk into Mordor...

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07-20-2012, 03:45 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
But they still owe him 12 million in a week regardless, so yes that would be absolute worst case scenario. Thought I read that if Weber holds out , he still gets all his bonuses, but forfeits his salary , is this true ?
They owe him if there's a lockout.

I don't know that he *can* hold out, as he's agreed to a contract with either Philly or Nashville. Don't know that he can back out. Any CBA gurus know?

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07-20-2012, 03:47 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra427 View Post
Preds still have a great goalie to rely on and Trotz is a good coach, so they can still make the playoffs without Weber. If they let him go, they get picks and cap space to acquire a top tier defensemen. Wins or losses are not guaranteed with or without Weber. The flyers made a huge mistake with Bryz, this could be one also, and it won't fix their Bryz problem.
Tell me more about how you predict the future.

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:49 PM
  #62
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I'm gonna try an analogy for the people saying this lol.

You have a car that you don't really want to sell, but it needs some work and you don't know if you want to sink the money into it.
Someone comes up and offers you $5,000 for it. Do you

A) Accept.

B) Decline, and put like $5,000 into it.

C) Decline, put like $5,000 into it, and then sell it for $6,000.

Do you now see how that it makes no sense to sign him and then trade him for a slightly better deal after paying him a **** ton of money?
Well, for part C, you get to keep it for 2 more years before selling it off. So that 2 years of driving around in a newly fixed "like new" vehicle adds value to the scenario. Oh and did I mention that car gets you more action than another car that you'd have to buy off the used car lot for 5K.

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07-20-2012, 03:49 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Certainly no more than the $27M Weber is owed by next year.
time to put my two cents into this area.

Nashville only has to come up with 14M a year in their budget if they intend to match and keep shea.

Nashville has 14-16M in budget room available based on their budget last year and current commitments.

If nashville has cashflow issues with the signing bonuses, they can borrow the money against their expected revenues for the season. The NHL has been known to advance revenue sharing funds to different teams on numerous occasions, interest free.


in short, the idea that nashville will have a hard time coming up with the money is a bit silly. In reality, the pertinent questions are:

1: Is weber worth this much money?
2: Is weber going to be happy staying here longterm?
3: If the answer to 2 is no, what are our options?

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:50 PM
  #64
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Wow the NHL approved this offer sheet? how is this not cap circumvention? :

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:54 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Wow the NHL approved this offer sheet? how is this not cap circumvention? :
Parameters were set down with the Kovalchuk deal. Long-term contracts that go until 40 or 41 get approved, but not 43 or 44. I guess they believe those players will never play until 44, so they think it is a fraudulent way to lower the cap hit, as opposed to simply locking somebody up for the rest of their career. I think we will see a contract limit of 6-8 years in the new CBA.

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07-20-2012, 03:59 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
time to put my two cents into this area.

Nashville only has to come up with 14M a year in their budget if they intend to match and keep shea.

Nashville has 14-16M in budget room available based on their budget last year and current commitments.

If nashville has cashflow issues with the signing bonuses, they can borrow the money against their expected revenues for the season. The NHL has been known to advance revenue sharing funds to different teams on numerous occasions, interest free.


in short, the idea that nashville will have a hard time coming up with the money is a bit silly. In reality, the pertinent questions are:

1: Is weber worth this much money?
2: Is weber going to be happy staying here longterm?
3: If the answer to 2 is no, what are our options?
They need to find $13 million right now. Also will the league advance an interest free loan to them for this with a potential lockout looming? Will they do it again next year if need be? Will they advance a loan to a team with a lot of debt, that has been looking for more investors to put up $25 million prior to this offer sheet due to financial instability?

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07-20-2012, 04:00 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Parameters were set down with the Kovalchuk deal. Long-term contracts that go until 40 or 41 get approved, but not 43 or 44. I guess they believe those players will never play until 44, so they think it is a fraudulent way to lower the cap hit, as opposed to simply locking somebody up for the rest of their career. I think we will see a contract limit of 6-8 years in the new CBA.
I could definitely see some owners pushing for the contract limit of 6 or 8 years like you said and also pushing for the salary to be the same as the cap hit. Whether the cap hit would fluctuate from year to year or the cap and salary would both have to be the average per year of the total contract. I don't know if that will happen, but I can see some owners (especially the owners of teams with a budget) pushing for hose type of things.

The PA would probably hate both of those ideas.

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07-20-2012, 04:00 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
They owe him if there's a lockout.

I don't know that he *can* hold out, as he's agreed to a contract with either Philly or Nashville. Don't know that he can back out. Any CBA gurus know?
Could one of the guys answer this when they can ? Had a guy that was adamant that Weber could hold out the whole time if Preds match and still be entitled to all the bonuses as they have nothing to do with actually playing or suiting up for the team. He would only forfeit the salary portion on the contract .

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07-20-2012, 04:02 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Parameters were set down with the Kovalchuk deal. Long-term contracts that go until 40 or 41 get approved, but not 43 or 44. I guess they believe those players will never play until 44, so they think it is a fraudulent way to lower the cap hit, as opposed to simply locking somebody up for the rest of their career. I think we will see a contract limit of 6-8 years in the new CBA.
Luongo is signed until 43.

Kovy's got over ruled because the circumvention year's salary was too low, likely lower than what the minimum salary would be in 17 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
They need to find $13 million right now. Also will the league advance an interest free loan to them for this with a potential lockout looming? Will they do it again next year if need be? Will they advance a loan to a team with a lot of debt, that has been looking for more investors to put up $25 million prior to this offer sheet due to financial instability?
Phoenix Coyotes!

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07-20-2012, 04:06 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Could one of the guys answer this when they can ? Had a guy that was adamant that Weber could hold out the whole time if Preds match and still be entitled to all the bonuses as they have nothing to do with actually playing or suiting up for the team. He would only forfeit the salary portion on the contract .
On its face that doesn't make sense to me. If the contract is valid and he refuses to report, he's in breach of that contract and I can't see where the team would be required to pay him a dime. I could see where they'd have to pay him the initial signing bonus since that would be due prior to when he'd have to report, so he wouldn't be "holding out" at that time.

If it's deemed he hasn't entered into the contract, how could they owe him anything at all?

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07-20-2012, 04:07 PM
  #71
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Say Nashville doesn't match and were to get Voracek, Meszaros and two 1sts from Philly for Weber in return for their four 1st rounders..... then traded both of the other 1st rounders to Calgary for Bouwmeester. I don't see how they would be that bad off adding Bouwmeester, Meszaros and Voracek for Weber.

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07-20-2012, 04:08 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
time to put my two cents into this area.

Nashville only has to come up with 14M a year in their budget if they intend to match and keep shea.

Nashville has 14-16M in budget room available based on their budget last year and current commitments.

If nashville has cashflow issues with the signing bonuses, they can borrow the money against their expected revenues for the season. The NHL has been known to advance revenue sharing funds to different teams on numerous occasions, interest free.


in short, the idea that nashville will have a hard time coming up with the money is a bit silly. In reality, the pertinent questions are:

1: Is weber worth this much money?
2: Is weber going to be happy staying here longterm?
3: If the answer to 2 is no, what are our options?
So the NHL would be willing to potentially hand out 6m loans for the next 6 years interest free to cover the salary gap on this? Assuming the preds operate at even?

If they were making 6m profits above expenses each year I'm sure they would have already matched.

I'm not so sure the ability to get the money vs wanting to spend it isn't an issue here.

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07-20-2012, 04:09 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
If anyone honestly thinks that if Weber is kept by the Preds he will be traded in a years time, you are delusional. If he stays a Predator, he'll be one for quite a while.
What makes you say that? $26 million is obviously a significant investment, but it's entirely possible that they lose more than that if they don't match and ice a poor team in the coming seasons. With matching, you at least ensure that you either have your rock on the blue line to build around, or a player with massive value whose return can let you compete in the near future. If Nashville doesn't match, they are saying that they are confident the income hit that comes from letting Weber, Suter, and Radulov go in the same summer will not eclipse the mark paying him for two seasons would have. you can't rule out a trade after matching for the Predators.

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07-20-2012, 04:09 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Wow the NHL approved this offer sheet? how is this not cap circumvention? :
I usually put more into my posts, but this one requires only: not sure if serious?

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07-20-2012, 04:14 PM
  #75
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My biggest question is, why wait the full 7 days. If Weber wants out of Nashville, and they still decide to sign him on the 7th day, he isn't allowed to be traded for a full year.

Why waste everyone's time coming up with a yes or no decision?

...Unless there is more to it....

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