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BREAKING: Travis Snider traded to Pittsburgh for SP Brad Lincoln

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:06 PM
  #1
Woodman19
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BREAKING: Travis Snider traded to Pittsburgh for SP Brad Lincoln

Something for you all to consider, the Jays really do their homework on players, they have watched the Astro's system all year and like the Gose trade, everyone looked at BA and thought it was stupid and now it looks brilliant. Have faith!

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07-20-2012, 03:15 PM
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THE SKY IS NOT LONGER FALLING!

but in all seriousness, I do like this trade. Happ is a nice short term fix, and the bullpen arms are an improvement. The players the Jays traded were all blocked anyways.

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07-20-2012, 03:15 PM
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Chandrashekhar Limit
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Can anyone give me a run down of Carpenter and Perez please.

Thanks in advance.

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07-20-2012, 03:26 PM
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Nice, Happ is one of the guys Anthopolous wanted in return for Halladay. Cordero and Francisco weren't useful pieces to this organization

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07-20-2012, 03:27 PM
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There has been lots of talk about what the Jays lose in Asher going... Can someone fill me in on Joe Musgrove's upside/value? Seems like a nice piece to give for such low return

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07-20-2012, 03:28 PM
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Carpenter will start in AAA

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07-20-2012, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LupulMania View Post
There has been lots of talk about what the Jays lose in Asher going... Can someone fill me in on Joe Musgrove's upside/value? Seems like a nice piece to give for such low return
Musgrove's potential is a #3 workhorse, but he's still very early in his development stage. Going forward the Jays still have guys like Sanchez, Syndergaard, Nicolino, Norris, Smoral, Comer, Cardona and Osuna, the latter two being the furthest away in terms of MLB readiness.

This is of course not including Alvarez, Hutchison, Drabek (<- 2nd time getting TJ surgery though) and Marcus Stroman (likely going to rush through minors to serve as bullpen help?).

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07-20-2012, 03:57 PM
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Anyone remember the Roy Oswalt deal? J.A Happ and Anthony Gose as main players going the other way, now both Jays. Happ was showing signs of brilliance with Phillie before he was traded. Another buy low trade from AA to go along with Escobar and Rasmus.

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07-20-2012, 03:59 PM
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Stop gap trade, I understand why we did it, but once again it's another lateral move. This franchise is not going anywhere until Rogers spends some of the millions of dollars that they make every year on this team. They can spend the most when it comes to the draft all they want and it's great that we have a top farm system but to put things in perspective...Syndergaard, and Sanchez were drafted two years ago and are still 2-3 years away..we can't wait for everyone to all develop at the same time. This winter is going to be a big off-season for the franchise, it's time to start making moves to get us over the mediocre line of .500

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07-20-2012, 04:22 PM
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My analysis:

Haap: A decent player. Jays need pitching depth and he is a #4/5 that can gives us innings or pitch out of the pen. He isn't as bad as people make him sound. He's got a strong K rate this year, cut down his walks to something fairly decent and he's inducing a lot more GB this year as it's increased all the way to 46.9% which is a good sign but he's given up more HR this year as flyballs are leaving the yard a lot more often and it's highly unlikely they will go out at a rate of nearly 15% so when that HR rate comes up, expect that FIP to go down. Swinging strikes are a career high and he is getting hitters to chase out of the zone way more often all this is a good positive sign where he is headed. The amount of hits he's given up has also gone up sign he was traded to Astros and I would assume that was because of a bad defense? Jays defense will help his category there. He is under control and gives us much needed
pitching depth. I would prefer someone better but he is not bad.

Lyon: He's been solid this year. 3.25 ERA and 3.28 FIP and he's been a good reliever the past few years. Jays seriously needed a late inning guy which they can use other than Janssen/Oliver/Frasor who would burn their arm if they kept pitching like they have been. He is a FA after this year which is fine by me. I think there is a chance Jays could get him signed or they might just have him for the year and sign a different reliever.

Carpenter: He intrigues me. He is a converted pitcher and throws a mid 90's fastball and can miss bats. He is a little bit older to be in the minors and just barely getting to the majors but as I said, he is a converted position player. Command is a little bit wild but he could be a good reliever or a decent reliever. He did have a 2.93 ERA last year in 27.2 IP. Adds some depth too which I cannot stress enough off. Jays really really need pitching depth in the upper minors. Drabek and Perez will be missing some of the next year too.

What we gave up:

Musgrove: Best prospect we gave up. He's got a good ceiling and could be a #3 pitcher. He's got a good fastball that he can get it up to mid 90's, he is big and projects to be a durable innings eater. Fits well with the Astros re-build. It kinda sucks to see him go but we do have pitching depth, Musgrove is a LONG ways away from the bigs and if this move tells you anything, Jays want to trying winning now and continue doing it in the future. Musgrove also hasn't pitched in a little while because of a shoulder injury. It's said to be a minor injury but a shoulder injury is usually never good but I'm not overly concerned about his injury right now.

Perez: 2nd best prospect we gave up. Good tools, athletic catcher, good plate discipline and is said to have good defensive tools. He was repeating A ball and seems to have fallen behind guys like JPA/d'Arnaud/Jimenez and eligible for rule 5 draft in the upcoming season. Who knows if somebody would have selected him but Jays were certainly not going to use up a 40 man spot for a guy that's like 3 years away from the bigs.

Woj: Could really care less they traded him. He is 23 in High A and repeating the level. K's are slightly up and still pretty meh at just 7.3 K/9 for a guy that's advanced, older and repeating the level. Walk rate is the same as last year, HR rate way down which is a positive sign and amount of hits are down too. It's a pitcher's league and he is repeating so I don't know how much I buy his stats. I don't to be honest. He doesn't seem to have that good fastball he had when he was drafted so I don't see him becoming much. Could be a decent reliever but don't see him being much more than IMO.

Rollins: 22 year old in A ball with meh stuff and he struggles with command. He is a lefty though so he could be a LOOGY or something.

These guys are all at the lower levels, two of which project most likely to be relievers. Musgrove could be good, Perez could be a starting catcher but both are a long ways away. I think it's a fair deal. Jays get players that can help now but Carpenter and Haap also have a little bit of control while Astros bolster their farm system which they needed to do. They didn't need to keep those guys and wanted to re-build and this helps. Musgrove is the only piece I didn't like giving but we don't even know if he can even develop into a Haap so I wouldn't get too hung up on the prospects we gave up. They aren't one of our better prospects and we have plenty of depth so I am fine with the trade. Wish we got a better piece than Haap or Lyon but I guess you can't always just give quantity for quality.

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07-20-2012, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
Can anyone give me a run down of Carpenter and Perez please.

Thanks in advance.
Not sure about Carpenter but Perez is (was) basically our 4th best C in the system behind JPA, D'Arnaud and Jimenez.

Musgrove will be the piece we may regret losing the most, but these are single-A players who have a long road to the majors and may never get there.

Happ will apparently start out in the bullpen and won't start til someone falters (Brett Cecil anyone?)...I expect him to be in the rotation before the month is out.

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Old
07-20-2012, 04:54 PM
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So, in the last thread I posted that Brett Lawrie ranked 15th in fangraphs annual trade value lists, which takes into account every major-leaguer and minor-leaguer, and then ranks the top-50 based on what they would hypothetically be worth on the trade market.

Here's what they (the articles are written by Dave Cameron) had to say about Lawrie for those who didn't read it before:

Quote:
15. (NR) Brett Lawrie, 3B, Toronto – Under Team Control through 2017

For all that is made about how remarkable Starlin Castro‘s Major League success is, we shouldn’t ignore the fact that Lawrie is only two months older. While he hasn’t been able to match last year’s ridiculous debut, his career line is .283/.339/.459 in what amounts to one big league season. Any 22-year-old who has a 117 wRC+ is off to a pretty good start to their career, but Lawrie’s not just a bat-only guy. Whether or not he’s actually a +15 defender as UZR has given him credit for is still to be determined, but the scouting reports on his glovework have also been fantastic, and he’s athletic enough to be a plus glove at the position. If the timing of his performances were flipped and Lawrie was currently in the midst of what he did last summer, he might be a top 10 guy. Even still, this version is an above average player at an age when most of his peers are still in the minor leagues. Add in five more years of team control, and Lawrie is still a tremendously valuable asset.
I also speculated that Bautista would be in the top-10 (a pretty fair assumption). Well, earlier today they came out with the 10-6 list, with Bautista being #10.

Quote:
10. (2) Jose Bautista, OF, Toronto – Signed through 2015 for $63 million

An early season slump and another low BABIP has Bautista performing at a more human level than the past few years, though he’s still among the best hitters in the game. However, he does turn 32 in October, so whether he’s going to remain an elite player for much longer is an open question. The steal of a contract that the Blue Jays signed him to in 2010 has four years left at $14 million per year, and then there’s a team option for 2016 at the same price. For the next couple of years, it’s a significant discount, though I probably wouldn’t expect the option to be exercised. For a team in need of a short term offensive boost without taking a huge hit to their payroll, Bautista would be one of the most appealing players in the sport.

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07-20-2012, 04:59 PM
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TBH i can't see anyone being worst then cecil but i guess his last start bought him one more. i can see haap getting cecil's next start if cecil returns to his true form.

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07-20-2012, 05:34 PM
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You guys are missing the most significant benefit of this trade: It prevents John Farrell from putting Corderpo on the mound. It's like taking the keys away from a guy who's had a few too many at the bar.

That alone makes this a huge win for the Blue Jays.

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07-20-2012, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
You guys are missing the most significant benefit of this trade: It prevents John Farrell from putting Corderpo on the mound. It's like taking the keys away from a guy who's had a few too many at the bar.

That alone makes this a huge win for the Blue Jays.
its like getting 2 players, we remove Cordero while also adding a player who can pitch lol.

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Old
07-20-2012, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
You guys are missing the most significant benefit of this trade: It prevents John Farrell from putting Corderpo on the mound. It's like taking the keys away from a guy who's had a few too many at the bar.

That alone makes this a huge win for the Blue Jays.
Your Avatar creeps me out Nem. It keeps STARING AT ME!

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07-20-2012, 05:56 PM
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Your Avatar creeps me out Nem. It keeps STARING AT ME!
Don't blame me. Blame Matt Pelech. It's his 2011 team photo for the Sharks. I don't know why he went with the creepy serial killer smile, but there it is.

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07-20-2012, 05:59 PM
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Don't blame me. Blame Matt Pelech. It's his 2011 team photo for the Sharks. I don't know why he went with the creepy serial killer smile, but there it is.
Good thing I don't suffer from Scopophobia.


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07-20-2012, 06:01 PM
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You also know the eyes move, right? They follow you.

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07-20-2012, 06:05 PM
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Hyperglide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dredeye

Cordero wasn't the piece they were looking to acquire. He and Fransisco needed to be included to clear roster spots. We gave up good prospects and that's what the Astros were looking for.
I never said that they were the key pieces. Obviously they had to be moved out to make roster spots and the key piece to this trade was Asher Wojciechowski.

It's just that Codero and Francisco were such negative value contracts, that we didn't even have to give up any prospects of significance to move these negative contracts out of the organization. So it a way the values kind of canceled each other out.

We have 3 pitchers now in the organization that will help now and in the near future instead of what we sent out and again we added by subtraction with moving Cordero out.

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07-20-2012, 07:09 PM
  #21
Nasty Nazem
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Originally Posted by Hyperglide View Post
I never said that they were the key pieces. Obviously they had to be moved out to make roster spots and the key piece to this trade was Asher Wojciechowski.

It's just that Codero and Francisco were such negative value contracts, that we didn't even have to give up any prospects of significance to move these negative contracts out of the organization. So it a way the values kind of canceled each other out.

We have 3 pitchers now in the organization that will help now and in the near future instead of what we sent out and again we added by subtraction with moving Cordero out.
Francisco wasn't really a negative value contract. He played just fine too but just didn't play much. Fits well on an NL team where he could get into a game pretty much everyday.

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07-20-2012, 07:11 PM
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Hyperglide
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Francisco wasn't really a negative value contract. He played just fine too but just didn't play much. Fits well on an NL team where he could get into a game pretty much everyday.
Okay then let me rephrase. He's a no value contract. An old veteran journeyman bench player. Okay ya he wasn't negative value per se but he's still not some uber elite prospect or an everyday positional player.

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07-20-2012, 09:35 PM
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@gregorMLB: Drew Carpenter to be DFA'd tomorrow.

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07-20-2012, 09:36 PM
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@gregorMLB: Drew Carpenter to be DFA'd tomorrow.
Only have room for 1 Carpenter!

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07-20-2012, 09:39 PM
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Shi Davidi is saying Andrew Carpenter is the one being DFA'd...?

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