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2012 CBJ Offseason Part III (Proposals, Speculations, Blog Rumors, etc. go here)

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Old
08-10-2012, 01:52 PM
  #476
Gagnefan924
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Well, Dubisnky fought Dorse back in Traverse City. Just because guys fight doesn't mean they hate each other
Not what I meant. Shelley said that he loves to get under the New York Rangers skin and he really loves to piss off Dubinsky. Then Dubinsky went and called Shelley a TERRIBLE hockey player in an interview.

MY point.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011...ers-sean-avery
Brandon Dubinsky heard Flyers winger Jody Shelley call him a “weasel” on HBO’s “24-7” preview, and on Monday, the weasel popped. The Rangers’ forward sounded off after practice in Greenburgh on the insult from his ex-teammate, calling Shelley “a terrible hockey player” and basically accusing him as being chicken, even though Dubinsky laid off the animal analogies. “First of all, if I was him, I’d keep my mouth shut if I don’t play, especially since I never see him on the ice,” Dubinsky said of Shelley, who has played in only 10 of Philadelphia’s 23 games this season. “He’s usually just yapping from the bench, and I guess now he’s yapping from behind the video camera. So that’s about all I have to say.” That was not all Dubinsky had to say. “Jody Shelley - it won’t be long before he’s out of the league, because he’s a terrible hockey player,” he added.

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08-10-2012, 01:54 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
Not what I meant. Shelley said that he loves to get under the New York Rangers skin and he really loves to piss off Dubinsky. Then Dubinsky went and called Shelley a TERRIBLE hockey player in an interview.
At least its better than being called irrelevant by Mike Rupp.


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08-10-2012, 01:56 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
At least its better than being called irrelevant by Mike Rupp.

Yep, theres just no way Shelley should be on any hockey team at this point lol. He cant even fight well anymore.

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08-10-2012, 02:02 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011...ers-sean-avery
“He’s usually just yapping from the bench, and I guess now he’s yapping from behind the video camera. So that’s about all I have to say.” That was not all Dubinsky had to say. “Jody Shelley - it won’t be long before he’s out of the league, because he’s a terrible hockey player,” he added.
I can't argue with that. Great guy though.

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08-10-2012, 10:04 PM
  #480
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That's why the Jackets didn't resign A.Johnson

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08-12-2012, 06:22 PM
  #481
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Luongo or Schneider

I'm a Canucks fan looking for a little perspective.

If you could have either:
a) Cory Schneider, or
b) Roberto Luongo - having accepted a trade, so not a malcontent.

Which would you rather have.

Also, would you be willing to give up all three of your first round picks next year (plus a salary dump if you need to - i.e. Mason) for either of these scenarios?

NOTE: by my math, a goalie with a 0.925 save% (Luongo's average, worse than Schneider in either of the last two years as a backup) would have saved and extra 55 goals which would have made your goal difference -5 which may have had you in playoff contention (best of the non-playoff teams by far).

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08-12-2012, 06:28 PM
  #482
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Three firsts? Um no thanks.

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08-12-2012, 06:32 PM
  #483
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I'd take Schneider and id give you one of Kings/Rangers first, Erixon, Mason(if you want), and a forward

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08-12-2012, 06:41 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
I'd take Schneider and id give you one of Kings/Rangers first, Erixon, Mason(if you want), and a forward
Kings or Rangers pick, a prospect and Mason would be a fair deal for Schneider.

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08-12-2012, 06:42 PM
  #485
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08-12-2012, 06:45 PM
  #486
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In light of the fact that Columbus first round picks have a high percentage to fail take them... for Cory Schneider! Forget Luongo..

Granted Schneider is still unproven in many circles but he is proven in my circle. Oh, taking Mason is worth one first round pick on it's own.

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08-12-2012, 07:44 PM
  #487
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I'd give up BOTH LA's and NY's first round picks, plus Mason for Schneider.

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08-12-2012, 07:50 PM
  #488
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I'd Schneider for Moore, Mason, and one of our 1st next year.

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08-12-2012, 09:00 PM
  #489
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Mason, the NYR first, and your pick of Erixon, Moore, or Savard - for Schneider only. I don't want Luongo and his 32 year old way-too long cap hit. And, I'm not giving up any other asset. At all.

We're not really in a hurry to be competitive ... why would we give up all three of our first rounders, virtually blowing away any chance of landing one of the attractive forwards next year - for a goalie who may or may not be good enough to get us into the playoff hunt for a couple of years until our forwards prove us unworthy? Doesn't make sense to me. If anything, we'd be acquiring a goalie like this to allow Bobrovsky, Dansk, Korpisalo, York, and Forsberg time to develop. They will then be ready about the same time our young talent (Murray, Jenner, Atkinson, whatever we get next year) to really be ready.

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08-12-2012, 11:15 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Mason, the NYR first, and your pick of Erixon, Moore, or Savard - for Schneider only. I don't want Luongo and his 32 year old way-too long cap hit. And, I'm not giving up any other asset. At all.
Schneider, in my opinion, wouldn't necessarily be a long-term fit. In comparison to Luongo:

- Schneider would probably cost a hell of a lot more to acquire
- Schneider has proven much less than Luongo
- Schneider, if he is able to stay as a starter, would create a logjam in net down the road
- No one knows what the new CBA will have in regards to long-term contracts. This may work out in favor of Luongo's new team

Given the choice between a 1st, a top prospect, and Mason for Schneider, or much less for Luongo, I'm taking the latter deal every time.

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08-13-2012, 12:40 AM
  #491
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Schneider, in my opinion, wouldn't necessarily be a long-term fit. In comparison to Luongo:

- Schneider would probably cost a hell of a lot more to acquire
- Schneider has proven much less than Luongo
- Schneider, if he is able to stay as a starter, would create a logjam in net down the road
- No one knows what the new CBA will have in regards to long-term contracts. This may work out in favor of Luongo's new team

Given the choice between a 1st, a top prospect, and Mason for Schneider, or much less for Luongo, I'm taking the latter deal every time.
Roberto Luongo's 2012 stats: 55 GP, 2.41 GAA, 91.9% save percentage.
Cory Schneider's 2012 stats: 33 GP, 1.96 GAA, 93.7% save percentage.

They played on the same team. While it wasn't a split down the middle, towards the end of the year and into the playoffs, Schneider started to take over.

For their career, for comparison's sake:

Luongo: 727 games, 2.52 GAA, 91.9% save percentage.
Schneider: 68 games, 2.28 GAA, 92.1% save percentage.

While Luongo may be more seasoned than Schneider, I really feel as if he's been overrated throughout. While he did have some borderline great years in Florida, he's been playing for one of the top teams in the NHL and hasn't won a Cup there. Even in the team's lone Cup run, Schneider was very much a big reason the Canucks even lasted to game 7, as Luongo was downright brutal at times, whereas Schneider was a rock.

Lastly, the cap hits:

Roberto Luongo: signed through 2022 at a cap hit of $5.333 million per year. As a 32 year old, that essentially means we're on the hook for the full 10 years, even if he winds up retiring.
Cory Schneider: signed through 2015 at a cap hit of $4.000 million per year, at which point he becomes a UFA.

Honestly, to give up such a bounty and only land an aging goaltender is crazy. Luongo maybe has 4-5 more good years in him, and that's even questionable. After that, we'd be on the hook for 5-6 more years, with numerous promising young goalies coming through our own pipeline.

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08-13-2012, 03:32 AM
  #492
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Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
Three firsts? Um no thanks.
Well, two of the 1sts are NYR and LAK...not exactly likely to be high picks.

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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
I'd take Schneider and id give you one of Kings/Rangers first, Erixon, Mason(if you want), and a forward
No thanks and if given the choice we would let you guys keep Mason.

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Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
Kings or Rangers pick, a prospect and Mason would be a fair deal for Schneider.
In your mind maybe, in my eyes, that's less than Varly fetched last year unless the prospect is Murray (which we both know it won't be) and Schneider is a much better goalie (as he is more consistently great).

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In light of the fact that Columbus first round picks have a high percentage to fail take them... for Cory Schneider! Forget Luongo..

Granted Schneider is still unproven in many circles but he is proven in my circle. Oh, taking Mason is worth one first round pick on it's own.
I agree. I would trade Luongo or Schneider for less than the three 1sts and if it was another year, I probably wouldn't either (its supposed to be a good draft).

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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
I'd give up BOTH LA's and NY's first round picks, plus Mason for Schneider.
Not even close IMO. NYR + LAK picks are not that valuable as the PIT, LAK, VAN, and NYR are the favorites to win the Cup depending on what betting web site you are looking at.

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Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
I'd Schneider for Moore, Mason, and one of our 1st next year.
This is actually pretty close IMO. I haven't been keeping up with Moore, is he ready to be a #6 now? I was pretty high on him when he was drafted. I think the Canucks would still want a little more though.

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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Given the choice between a 1st, a top prospect, and Mason for Schneider, or much less for Luongo, I'm taking the latter deal every time.
Vancouver's been asking for a 1st + top prospect for Luongo (rumored 1st + Gardiner from TO or 1st + Bjustad from FLA)...which is why the deal hasn't been done. I assume Vancouver would want 1st + Erixson/Moore for Luongo or 1st + Johanson/Murray for Schnedier (not saying you would necessarily pay).

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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Roberto Luongo's 2012 stats: 55 GP, 2.41 GAA, 91.9% save percentage.
Cory Schneider's 2012 stats: 33 GP, 1.96 GAA, 93.7% save percentage.

They played on the same team. While it wasn't a split down the middle, towards the end of the year and into the playoffs, Schneider started to take over.

For their career, for comparison's sake:

Luongo: 727 games, 2.52 GAA, 91.9% save percentage.
Schneider: 68 games, 2.28 GAA, 92.1% save percentage.

While Luongo may be more seasoned than Schneider, I really feel as if he's been overrated throughout. While he did have some borderline great years in Florida, he's been playing for one of the top teams in the NHL and hasn't won a Cup there. Even in the team's lone Cup run, Schneider was very much a big reason the Canucks even lasted to game 7, as Luongo was downright brutal at times, whereas Schneider was a rock.

Lastly, the cap hits:

Roberto Luongo: signed through 2022 at a cap hit of $5.333 million per year. As a 32 year old, that essentially means we're on the hook for the full 10 years, even if he winds up retiring.
Cory Schneider: signed through 2015 at a cap hit of $4.000 million per year, at which point he becomes a UFA.

Honestly, to give up such a bounty and only land an aging goaltender is crazy. Luongo maybe has 4-5 more good years in him, and that's even questionable. After that, we'd be on the hook for 5-6 more years, with numerous promising young goalies coming through our own pipeline.
Not really true...

Luongo was injured early in the season and Schnedier played 17 games by the time the Canucks hit the halfway mark (41) and played a total of 33 games...he actually played more games in the 1st half than 2nd half...so it's not like he "started to take over" in the 2nd half. Admitedly, Schneider got more starts after the team clinched the division - which you would expect for a backup.

Luongo's stats for the year, save for his Stanley Cup hangover driven October (0.869 save%) were pretty damn comparable to Schneiders, Luongo had a 0.926 save% the rest of the year, same as his prior Veizna nominated season - NOTE: The regulars only dressed for two preseason games as the team had decided to rest all of them after the playoffs through the preseason.

You say Luongo had good seasons in Fla but has been overrated in Vancouver, I say he's been nominated for the Veizna twice in six seasons as a Canuck. As far as Vancouver's great team, when Luongo arrived the Canucks were a non-playoff team, they were 23rd in goal scoring in his first year but won their division - the next year the Canucks missed again because they couldn't score and their top 3 d-men missed 106 games (almost all during the 2nd half of the season at the same time), despite all that, the team was in the hunt and finished 9th...the Canucks were not a powerhouse when Luongo arrived and I doubt they will be unless their goalies can keep playing as well as they have. Like I've said, if Luongo or Schneider show up in CBJ and do what Luongo did when he showed up in Vancouver (i.e. play 76 games) you would likely stop about 55 more goals based on save% alone. Being in almost all of your games would likely reduce it further. That would put you in the hunt for the playoffs.

As a Canucks fan, my preference is to roll with Luongo and Schneider, if not, then Luongo alone, then finally Schneider alone (I think the team and fans are underrating the posibility of Schneider getting hurt and the fact that Lack, while a top 5 goalie prospect, likely won't put up a .925-.930 save% which would mean we'd let in about 22 more goals in his 30 or so starts than if either Luongo or Schneider were in net for those games.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the best CBJ is willing to do is centered around LAK or NYR pick + a non-elite prospect I'd say you will not end up with either Luongo or Schneider...the Canucks would be giving up an A+++ asset and would expect something of at least A+ quality back along with other stuff - the LAK and NYR picks rank below Tim Erixon in my value ratings.

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08-13-2012, 06:00 AM
  #493
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If the best CBJ is willing to do is centered around LAK or NYR pick + a non-elite prospect I'd say you will not end up with either Luongo or Schneider...the Canucks would be giving up an A+++ asset and would expect something of at least A+ quality back along with other stuff - the LAK and NYR picks rank below Tim Erixon in my value ratings.
Crikey!

No thanks - at those prices.

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08-13-2012, 10:19 AM
  #494
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Crikey!

No thanks - at those prices.

Especially since it's not true. Schneider likely costs an arm and a leg. But if Nucks fans think they're going to extract a pound of flesh from a team for Luongo, they should be prepared to be very badly disappointed.

If anything happens on the Luongo front it's going to have to happen after the CBA has been finalized and there's a sure cap # and a sure amount of space left. To be honest, no one really NEEDS Luongo anymore. Florida? Well they have Markstrom a budding young prospect who's on the brink of stardom. Toronto? They've appeared to have moved on and are engaged in either the worst staring contest ever or have called the Nucks blufff and are waiting to see if their two pair is good enough. The Blackhawks make sense but again, appear to be happy with Crawford in net and don't want to put themselves into a cap nightmare type situation..

That said one of the Blue Jackets young dmen (Moore//Goloubef) with either the LAK or the NYR #1 next year and Mason would be the best case scenario for the Nucks. 1). you don't have to eat a bad contract to make it work and could make an attractive offer for Doan.
2). Like I said no market.
3). Goloubef and/or Moore fit an organizational need.

I'm going to submit that Varlamov last year is worth MORE as a trade piece than Luongo this year. Fact of the matter is... unless a team wants to take the poison pill that is his contract, he's a tough move.

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08-13-2012, 11:18 AM
  #495
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I'm going to submit that Varlamov last year is worth MORE as a trade piece than Luongo this year. Fact of the matter is... unless a team wants to take the poison pill that is his contract, he's a tough move.
This pretty much sums up my general point.

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08-13-2012, 02:20 PM
  #496
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Not even close IMO. NYR + LAK picks are not that valuable as the PIT, LAK, VAN, and NYR are the favorites to win the Cup depending on what betting web site you are looking at.

(vs)

This is actually pretty close IMO. I haven't been keeping up with Moore, is he ready to be a #6 now? I was pretty high on him when he was drafted. I think the Canucks would still want a little more though.
How is one offer "pretty close" and the other "not even close"?!? This makes no sense. The only difference is John Moore vs. a late 1st round pick.

I honestly don't know why I respond to these things from visiting fans. The discussion always ends up being a "moving goal line" where the visitor's asset is over-valued and our asset is under-valued. Same song, different tune.

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08-13-2012, 04:16 PM
  #497
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Shelley is a good guy. But I'd rather saved $1.1 mil. If you have an extra roster spot then give it to JAM, Jenner or Chaput. Let them watch some NHL hockey and make some pocket money. Kids gonna need some rest playing 1st year pro. Then you could let them play a few games.
How many players Shelley knows on this Jackets roster? I bet less than Dubinski knew when he was traded to the Jackets. We gonna be NHL penalty leaders anyway.
His salary drops to 900k this year, just his cap hit remains the same but that doesn't really matter. Shelley would know Boll, Bobrovsky, Vinny Prospal, Artem Anisimov, and maybe Brassard.

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08-13-2012, 04:58 PM
  #498
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I'm a Canucks fan looking for a little perspective.

If you could have either:
a) Cory Schneider, or
b) Roberto Luongo - having accepted a trade, so not a malcontent.

Which would you rather have.

Also, would you be willing to give up all three of your first round picks next year (plus a salary dump if you need to - i.e. Mason) for either of these scenarios?

NOTE: by my math, a goalie with a 0.925 save% (Luongo's average, worse than Schneider in either of the last two years as a backup) would have saved and extra 55 goals which would have made your goal difference -5 which may have had you in playoff contention (best of the non-playoff teams by far).
Have to go with neither. We've had several Vancouver fans come and "offer" both goaltenders with little to no success. Unfortunately for you, it's gotten quite old. Luongo's contract is worse than what Nash's was and as a value it's less. You aren't getting a 1st and top prospect for Luongo. Sorry. Not that it matters but I don't offer a 1st at all for Luongo. Not that his talent doesn't deserve it but that's a hamstring contract even for the CBJ - Yes, even if he retires after year 6. Don't want that cash tied up.

I like Schneider but he has a lot to prove in the NHL yet. I couldn't stomach the assets that Vancouver would want and you wouldn't like my offer. We've heard time and again from Nuck fans how "far" off we are. I'm willing to guess you'll come back with less than flattering responses thinking we're off our rocker and feel we are unreasonable. Again, time after time we've had fans offer US something than say we're crazy if we think that would work.

Sorry, just isn't worth pursuing. I'd rather sign Dan Ellis for a veteran presence.

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08-13-2012, 06:06 PM
  #499
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Have to go with neither. We've had several Vancouver fans come and "offer" both goaltenders with little to no success. Unfortunately for you, it's gotten quite old. Luongo's contract is worse than what Nash's was and as a value it's less. You aren't getting a 1st and top prospect for Luongo. Sorry. Not that it matters but I don't offer a 1st at all for Luongo. Not that his talent doesn't deserve it but that's a hamstring contract even for the CBJ - Yes, even if he retires after year 6. Don't want that cash tied up.

I like Schneider but he has a lot to prove in the NHL yet. I couldn't stomach the assets that Vancouver would want and you wouldn't like my offer. We've heard time and again from Nuck fans how "far" off we are. I'm willing to guess you'll come back with less than flattering responses thinking we're off our rocker and feel we are unreasonable. Again, time after time we've had fans offer US something than say we're crazy if we think that would work.

Sorry, just isn't worth pursuing. I'd rather sign Dan Ellis for a veteran presence.
"You're so far off on your offer for Luongo/Schneider"...didn't we just spend 5 months hearing the same thing when people were offering us scraps for Nash?

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08-13-2012, 06:16 PM
  #500
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Here's the first mention, slight though it may be, I've seen in weeks regarding John Davidson (from a link on PuckDaddy):

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...a4bcf6878.html

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