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Free Agent Talk (Part XII): Doan met with Rangers on Friday

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Old
07-21-2012, 07:09 PM
  #351
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
How many players in the league dominate every shift they are on the ice? I would make the argument that zero do, but being generous I would say 4 or 5 do almost ever shift:

Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
Ovechkin (arguable lately)
Datsyuk (?)

Richards is very comparable to other top centers in the league who are not on that list. All of those in his class also need other players of skill to help them generate scoring. They can only do so much themselves, and only do it once in awhile.
Sorry, that was stupid wording (dominate) by me.

To put it like this, most of what Brad Richards does on the ice -- he doesn't do better than the other center on the ice at the same time as he. I don't really get why we have to end up talking about Brad Richards who we all saw for like 102 games last season, but you just named 5 centers and say that Brad Richards is very compareable to the rest of the centers in this league. I think that's a very odd way of putting it and I definitely don't think it paints a correct picture of Brad Richards.

In most cases comparing Richard to other centers is like comparing apples to oranges. You get completely diffrent things from a Mikko Koivu than you get from Brad Richards. You get more production from Brad Richards then many other centers. Why? Because of his tremendous offensive instincts. He always puts puck where it should be at. I am personally a big fan of him. He only had 66 pts in NY last season, but I definitely think that's more to blame our inability of putting Richards in a good position on the PP then blaming Richards himself. But, you definitely do get alot from centers like Ryan Getzlaf, Eric Staal, Anze Kopitar, Mikko Kouivo and the likes that you do not even remotely get from Brad Richards.

Every second you are on the ice, you have a impact on the game. With the way you skate. With the way you work along the boards. With the way you read the ice and move the puck. With the way you get open to help your teammates. With the way you finnish hits. With the way you back check.

Brad Richards is not a dominant physical talent. His skating is also just not any good. Like we all know, Brad Richards is not that visible on the ice. There is many centers in this league who on a regular basis gets the puck into the attacking zone and keeps it there for a full shift, due to their overall dominant talent level. Truth to be told, the avg shift Brad Richards has is probably worse than the ones of Tomas Plecanec or M. Richards or Bergeron or a whole bunch of second tier centers in this league. That said, he is certainly not less valuble than all of that bunch -- because he provides quality and not quantity. Pts on the board. Goals. Many timely too.

Many trashed Brad Richards this last season. Was really dissapointed with him. Others hailed him like no tomorrow often [read: always] making statistical arguments. Why just not label him for what he is, a player who is basically up there in the top 2-3 in the league at creating a stir when he gets the puck on the blade of his stick in the attacking zone, and who works hard along the boards, and who has a good shot; and who is pretty darn mediocre/sub-par at skating the puck up ice, handling bigger forwards in the defensive zone and so forth.

Hence;
-If you need someone who can get you on the board, Brad Richards is your man.
-If you need someone who can go head to head with any center in the league on a regular basis, Brad Richards is certainly not your man. If you need someone who can carry an entire team and win momentum in terms of getting the puck up ice on a regular basis and putting the other teams on it's heels, Brad Richards is certainly not your man.

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Old
07-21-2012, 07:18 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Richards disappeared?
...
He's consistently been one of the top centers in the game since 04. How many centers have out produced Richards in that period of time?
Yeah, I would most definitely say that he wasn't much of a factor against NJD.

If you think his performance against NJD was a top notch performance by a center in a NHL Conference Final -- you are just plain wrong. I am sorry, but it was not even close.

On the other hand, put Brad Richards on a perfect PP set up for him. Surround him with wingers that suits him better. All of a sudden he is the type of center who scores 10 pts in 6 games in a ECF. He would still not be better on a shift by shift basis. Definitely not. Hence why I think its pretty stupid to compare him with others centers, it completely depends on the environment and what a team needs. If nothing else, its very hard to compare a Brad Richards with a Mikko Koivu or someone like that.

But I most definitely think its problematic if someone say that "hey we don't have a center like Ryan Getzlaf" and another say "hey Brad Richards has out scored ... ... ...".


Last edited by Ola: 07-21-2012 at 07:30 PM.
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Old
07-21-2012, 07:40 PM
  #353
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Where was we again? Yeah right, do we have the starpower in Gabby and Richards to match the starpower that the team that have won the cup the last 20 years have had like 90 percent of the time? (Toews and Kane; Malkin and Crosby; Zetterberg and Datsyuk; MSL (winner of the Art Ross the year they won, and runner up for Hart), Lecavalier (scored 52+56 in 06') and Richards; Forsberg and Sakic, and so forth)

I don't believe so. We got a very one dimensional sniper and a very one dimensional playmaker/PPQB. Although elite in their monoton dimensions, they just do not even remotely by my book match up with those mentioned.

In the end, I definitely think we need more top notch talent to actually win a Stanley Cup.

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07-21-2012, 07:44 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Where was we again? Yeah right, do we have the starpower in Gabby and Richards to match the starpower that the team that have won the cup the last 20 years have had like 90 percent of the time? (Toews and Kane; Malkin and Crosby; Zetterberg and Datsyuk; MSL (winner of the Art Ross the year they won, and runner up for Hart), Lecavalier (scored 52+56 in 06') and Richards; Forsberg and Sakic, and so forth)

I don't believe so. We got a very one dimensional sniper and a very one dimensional playmaker/PPQB. Although elite in their monoton dimensions, they just do not even remotely by my book match up with those mentioned.

In the end, I definitely think we need more top notch talent to actually win a Stanley Cup.
So... Rick Nash?

Or someone else?

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07-21-2012, 07:46 PM
  #355
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And how many have a Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe?
Tim Thomas and Cam Ward both have a Cup and won the Conn Smythe. Doesn't mean I'd take either over Hank.

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07-21-2012, 07:51 PM
  #356
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Not quite understanding the Richards hate, yes he under performed in the ECF but our whole team did as well.

You also got to remember last year was his first year in a new surronding. Remember your first year at a new school, college, or a new job it is going to take a little while for it to feel like home. This is the same for pro hockey players, and will likely be the same for a guy like Nash should he come here.

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07-21-2012, 07:54 PM
  #357
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Chemistry is a funny thing and Richards is the kind of player that when he finds chemistry with another player (or players-plural) he will put up better numbers. It didn't happen with Gaborik--at least not until late in the year. It may happen with somebody else but I think that Richards is going to click with someone sooner rather than later.

It seems to me that at least there are a lot of Rangers fans who are disappointed about last year--and it's more about how it ended because hopes got really sky high.

If at the beginning of last year though anyone had said we would have the best record in the East in the regular season and then make a deep run in the playoffs most of the same folks would have wondered what kind of drug that person was smoking. It's only to say that whether any one of us is all together happy with the composition of the team at the moment--this team exceeded expectations last year and that the main corps is still intact and that our best young players are developing well and IMO there's no good reason to be down on the team at the moment or to fret too much over what other teams are doing this summer.

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07-21-2012, 07:54 PM
  #358
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Brooksie reports that Sather is targeting Doan AND Nash.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/slapsh...#ixzz21IvtlH1M

Quote:
Know this: It isn’t either Doan or Nash for the Rangers. It is, on Sather’s blueprint, Doan and Nash.

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07-21-2012, 07:57 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Tim Thomas and Cam Ward both have a Cup and won the Conn Smythe. Doesn't mean I'd take either over Hank.
I honestly wouldn't have a problem with Ward.

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07-21-2012, 07:58 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Brooksie reports that Sather is targeting Doan AND Nash.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/slapsh...#ixzz21IvtlH1M
That is exactly what I thought from the start. The reason to get Doan is provide depth, veteran leadership, and ultimately will lower the price for Nash.

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07-21-2012, 08:04 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Brooksie reports that Sather is targeting Doan AND Nash.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/slapsh...#ixzz21IvtlH1M
Not surprised. And it should be. getting both would improve this team dramatically.

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07-21-2012, 08:07 PM
  #362
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Not surprised. And it should be. getting both would improve this team dramatically.
maybe by over paying for Doan you get Nash at a cheaper price

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07-21-2012, 08:14 PM
  #363
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if we get Doan and Nash, i'm running right through the freakin wall!

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07-21-2012, 08:16 PM
  #364
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if we get Doan and Nash, i'm running right through the freakin wall!
Out of pure excitement?

Or anger?

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07-21-2012, 08:24 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Out of pure excitement?

Or anger?
pure excitement!!!!

i hyperventilated when we signed Drury and Gomez.

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07-21-2012, 08:30 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Out of pure excitement?

Or anger?
Perhaps a little bit of both.

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07-21-2012, 08:30 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
pure excitement!!!!

i hyperventilated when we signed Drury and Gomez.
...Out of pure excitement?

Or anger?

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07-21-2012, 09:07 PM
  #368
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...Out of pure excitement?

Or anger?
Come on now...


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07-21-2012, 09:16 PM
  #369
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hindsight is foresight, but at the time when we signed Drury and Gomez there was alot to be excited about. Drury was always one of my favorite players from the Avs and he was great with the Sabres. His first year here, he was good. Second year he hit nothing but posts. It's a shame his body gave out, because he would have gave us alot if he were still here.

Gomez was a to 2C at the time we signed him and had VG 1st year centering a shoot first player like Shanahan. Gomez' skillset was much too limited though. He needed a tailor made wing to be effective.

Well the rest is history, but at the time of the Gomez Drury signing I was very excited. They were overpaid sure, but that's just the way it is. NOthing's changed.

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07-21-2012, 09:23 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
hindsight is foresight, but at the time when we signed Drury and Gomez there was alot to be excited about. Drury was always one of my favorite players from the Avs and he was great with the Sabres. His first year here, he was good. Second year he hit nothing but posts. It's a shame his body gave out, because he would have gave us alot if he were still here.

Gomez was a to 2C at the time we signed him and had VG 1st year centering a shoot first player like Shanahan. Gomez' skillset was much too limited though. He needed a tailor made wing to be effective.

Well the rest is history, but at the time of the Gomez Drury signing I was very excited. They were overpaid sure, but that's just the way it is. NOthing's changed.
Anyone can sit here and try to compare Drury and Gomez and Doan and Nash and people, for the most part, are going to think history will repeat itself. You can't really prove that it wont, although as excited about Drury and Gomez as I was, (and i really was) I feel like Doan and Nash fit this team better and the team itself is different from the team back when we signed Drumez. This is can take on a player and still maintain a winning game. They suffered the loss of Staal and Gaborik and Callahan ect and still won games despite that. When we signed Drumez the team was saying "hey please help us win" now, we're saying "hey, you wanna win? come help us win."

In my opinion it's just a different scenario where a guy like Doan slides into this system and and helps in a big way because the team around him is winning. I'm excited about this team right now and I'm one dude who will say "hey guys, you wanna win? come on. help us win."

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07-21-2012, 09:26 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Brooksie reports that Sather is targeting Doan AND Nash.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/slapsh...#ixzz21IvtlH1M
Guess that'd mean Dubi and AA go the other way. I'd really love to hold onto Anisimov.

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07-21-2012, 09:28 PM
  #372
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Nash = Gomez 2.0

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07-21-2012, 09:35 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
Anyone can sit here and try to compare Drury and Gomez and Doan and Nash
I dont know why. The situations aren't even remotely similar.

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07-21-2012, 09:35 PM
  #374
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Anyone can sit here and try to compare Drury and Gomez and Doan and Nash and people, for the most part, are going to think history will repeat itself. You can't really prove that it wont, although as excited about Drury and Gomez as I was, (and i really was) I feel like Doan and Nash fit this team better and the team itself is different from the team back when we signed Drumez. This is can take on a player and still maintain a winning game. They suffered the loss of Staal and Gaborik and Callahan ect and still won games despite that. When we signed Drumez the team was saying "hey please help us win" now, we're saying "hey, you wanna win? come help us win."

In my opinion it's just a different scenario where a guy like Doan slides into this system and and helps in a big way because the team around him is winning. I'm excited about this team right now and I'm one dude who will say "hey guys, you wanna win? come on. help us win."
i couldn't agree more. we're a totally different team then we were then, and Nash and Doan would be incredible here. Like many here, i've been a fan of this team nearly 20 years. This isn't a move like the past. If we get Doan and Nash we're solid cup contenders for good while...

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07-21-2012, 09:36 PM
  #375
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Nash = Gomez 2.0
no way man. Slick Rick has got move Gomez couldn't even conceive of pulling off...

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