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NHL Draft - Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

Why only 7 rounds?

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Old
09-30-2015, 04:19 PM
  #1
NA Scouting
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Why only 7 rounds?

Why is the NHL draft only 7 rounds long? I mean, I would be okay with it if by the 7th round they began drafting kids from beer leagues, but it is really far from being the case. Each year, I am puzzled at how at least 4-5 players from the QMJHL went undrafted, so there has to be even more from the WHL, OHL, USA an Europe.

What's even more puzzling, is that many undrafted kids get invited to development camps just a couple of days after the draft, and then to rookie camps in September, and then to main camp. 23 undrafted players from the Q found their way to NHL teams MAIN CAMP this September.

A couple undrafted players even sign deals with teams in September. They go from being undrafted in June to signing full entry-level deals with an NHL team in September. NO REGULAR SEASON HOCKEY WAS EVEN PLAYED FROM THE TIME THEY WENT UNDRAFTED TO THE TIME THEY SIGNED. Where's the logic in that?

Even more illogical: if you're not a top prospect, you basically hope to go undrafted so that you can actually CHOOSE what training camp you want to attend afterwards. Like Eric Lindros, YOU CAN PICK YOUR TEAM! Seriously? And let's be honest, any invited prospect as just a smuch of a chance to making the NHL in the long run than some of those 6th and 7th rounders... You just have to work a little harder.

I propose the NHL expands the draft by at least two rounds, like it was before. If GMs think the draft is too long, just have the 1st round on TV on Friday or Saturday night, and have a hurry-up system the following day where managers make picks via the Internet or system like in Baseball. Power through rounds 2-9 in half a day and be done with it. Simple.

I would even try and expand it to 11 or 12 rounds. I mean, why the hell not? Teams regulary invite 6-7 additional prospects to their summer camps anyway. Why not have them actually draft those guys instead of just inviting? It would help boost the kids' confidence. Like 'NICE!, I just got drafted!'

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Old
09-30-2015, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Scouting View Post
A couple undrafted players even sign deals with teams in September. They go from being undrafted in June to signing full entry-level deals with an NHL team in September. NO REGULAR SEASON HOCKEY WAS EVEN PLAYED FROM THE TIME THEY WENT UNDRAFTED TO THE TIME THEY SIGNED. Where's the logic in that?
I think you answered your own thread.

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09-30-2015, 04:36 PM
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You do realize that there is a 50 contract, as well as a 90-person reserve list maximum...

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09-30-2015, 04:38 PM
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Wasn't it a cba negotiation?

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09-30-2015, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Rant Casey View Post
You do realize that there is a 50 contract, as well as a 90-person reserve list maximum...
No team is anywhere near the 90 player limit. An extra round or 2 will not harm any team.

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Old
09-30-2015, 04:57 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by NA Scouting View Post
I propose the NHL expands the draft by at least two rounds, like it was before. If GMs think the draft is too long, just have the 1st round on TV on Friday or Saturday night, and have a hurry-up system the following day where managers make picks via the Internet or system like in Baseball. Power through rounds 2-9 in half a day and be done with it. Simple.
I believe teams requested that the number of rounds would be reduced. Before 2005, the rule was that any undrafted European had to be drafted. But after 2005, the older (ie, 22+) could be signed as free agents. So there was already a reduction in potential draft picks.

I've sat through three drafts (2010, 2011, and 2015). In 2011, I noticed that after the last pick, a few team scouts did immediately head into the stands to talk to undrafted guys to offer them invites.

Undoubtedly there'll be a few undrafted guys who might have been on some team's top 100. The system as it is allows them to invite them to camp and potentially sign them. So it's not like the door is completely closed on the undrafted guys. Arguably it might be better to be undrafted than be a hypothetical 8th rounder. If teams were expressing interest, you might get your choice while the 8th rounder has no choice.

But usually by the end of the draft, most of the team officials are in mingling mode and ready to get out of there. I think this year's draft wrapped up around 3pm locally. As trite as it sounds, those guys might be more interested in a couple more hours to unwind and party than waiting around to draft a long shot.

I was on a 9am Sunday flight out of Fort Lauderdale and to my surprise the Penguins staff was on my plane. It's possible that some teams might've flown out on Saturday night. I seem to recall that the reduction of rounds was due to teams wanting to have flexible travel arrangements.

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Old
09-30-2015, 05:17 PM
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AnishLoomba
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so will there be like a baseball system where there's 3 leagues and u stock up ur teams in every league with draft prospects

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Old
09-30-2015, 05:22 PM
  #8
UsernameWasTaken
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The draft is fine as it is. No further rounds are necessary.

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Old
09-30-2015, 05:50 PM
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No need for more rounds
teams no need wasting more resources and $$ finding that extra diamond in the rough
better time and money invested in making sure the teams first picks in first rounds are the best

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Old
09-30-2015, 06:17 PM
  #10
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Theres already alot of players that get drafted and not signed. Doesnt make sense although if there was a year w a couple expansion teams i wouldnt mind seeing an extra round or 2.

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Old
09-30-2015, 06:34 PM
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They should cut down the draft to 5 rounds. If you are 7th round pick your rights are owned by an NHL team for 3 years and you typically get a contract after 2nd year junior (if at all). So for 2 years you are not free to control destiny.

These guys are so hit and miss and team dont really value a 7th round pick that much anyway. So why not allow them to be free agents and have the ability to sign where they chose.

If they are good enough they have a choice to sign wherever fits them. If they arent good enough, no contract (but same as it is now)

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Old
09-30-2015, 06:58 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctopchowda View Post
They should cut down the draft to 5 rounds. If you are 7th round pick your rights are owned by an NHL team for 3 years and you typically get a contract after 2nd year junior (if at all). So for 2 years you are not free to control destiny.
That's not how it works for anywhere except NA Junior leagues. The bolded is completely incorrect.

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These guys are so hit and miss and team dont really value a 7th round pick that much anyway. So why not allow them to be free agents and have the ability to sign where they chose.
There is value in 7th round picks, especially raw picks from the NCAA/Europe. If a team doesn't value that, that says a lot more about their faith in their scouting staff than anything else.

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Old
09-30-2015, 07:07 PM
  #13
Aceboogie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbefied View Post
That's not how it works for anywhere except NA Junior leagues. The bolded is completely incorrect.



There is value in 7th round picks, especially raw picks from the NCAA/Europe. If a team doesn't value that, that says a lot more about their faith in their scouting staff than anything else.
If you draft an 18 year old from SEL they cant sign with another team after draft. Their rights are owned

As weve seen in the past, teams are quite eager to deal 6th and 7th round picks for not much. Its not the prospect, its the pick. Its very easily to find an undrafted prospect thats better than most 7th round picks. If the last 2 rounds were eliminated, teams would still have access to those players

But the amount of 7th rounders that actually sign, let alone play in NHL, is absurdly low. No scouting staff can regularly turn 7th rounders into NHLers. So instead we restrict their access to the market

I said 6th round, id actually probaly go as low as 4th. Lets open the market for players.

The NHL right now is so restrictive. Between the low draft age, high RFA age, and amount of NTCs, there is such limited player movement

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Old
09-30-2015, 07:30 PM
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I'm with you, I think it should be 10 rounds, there are certainly enough players for it. The reason I'm for it is for the kids sake, the joy of getting drafted. There's literally zero negatives for the teams, unless you count the extra hour or so to draft the players.

Do it for the kids, they're our future!

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Old
09-30-2015, 07:33 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
Wasn't it a cba negotiation?
It was. The NHLPA would prefer that the draft be as short as possible, so more players can negotiate their own deals.

The owners would prefer a longer draft, to exert a drag on the contracts of younger players.


They agreed to seven rounds.


In the old days, the draft went many rounds longer, and there was also a "supplemental draft" for undrafted college free agents.

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Old
09-30-2015, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Spectra View Post
There's literally zero negatives for the teams, unless you count the extra hour or so to draft the players.

Do it for the kids, they're our future!
The teams themselves wanted a reduction in rounds. After sitting through three drafts, there is a palpable drop in energy/excitement once it gets closer to the end.

Maybe not quite to Taro Tsujimoto levels....

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At that time, with only 18 franchises in the League, the draft was permitted to extend beyond nine rounds (it was eventually reduced to seven rounds in 2005) if teams continued to select players.

As the 11th round rolled on, Imlach had had enough.

Bored, and exhausted with the tedium of looking at players that had a slim chance of ever making the roster, he decided to pull one of the more creative pranks in Sabres history.

Sending a secretary to find some common Japanese names, Imlach soon came up with the imaginary Taro Tsujimoto of the Tokyo Katanas - literally translating to the Tokyo Sabres (Katana is a type of Japanese samurai sword).
Tsujimoto was the 183rd pick. A ten round draft would be 300, possibly more with expansion.

If you can, attend a draft. Maybe it's just me, but towards the end it seemed like many of the team reps are more interested in dinner/party plans than trying to convince their GM to pick a sleeper prospect.

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Old
09-30-2015, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctopchowda View Post
If you draft an 18 year old from SEL they cant sign with another team after draft. Their rights are owned
Yes for 4 years. Not 3.

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As weve seen in the past, teams are quite eager to deal 6th and 7th round picks for not much. Its not the prospect, its the pick. Its very easily to find an undrafted prospect thats better than most 7th round picks. If the last 2 rounds were eliminated, teams would still have access to those players
Just because they are willing to deal it doesn't mean that it isn't valued. And believe me, scouts value picks a lot more than GM's.

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But the amount of 7th rounders that actually sign, let alone play in NHL, is absurdly low. No scouting staff can regularly turn 7th rounders into NHLers. So instead we restrict their access to the market
I don't see why this is a problem

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I said 6th round, id actually probaly go as low as 4th. Lets open the market for players.
18 year old kids, even with "advisors" don't make the best decisions. We'd see the same few teams (low taxes/hometown/market) get stacked.

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The NHL right now is so restrictive. Between the low draft age, high RFA age, and amount of NTCs, there is such limited player movement
And that's what makes it great. Draft picks matter, trades matter, contracts matter. This isn't like the NBA/NFL/MLB where half of the draft means nothing and anyone can get out of any contract. Holding rights for multiple years instead of re-entering the draft is one of the best unique features about the sport.

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Old
09-30-2015, 08:51 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
The teams themselves wanted a reduction in rounds. After sitting through three drafts, there is a palpable drop in energy/excitement once it gets closer to the end.

Maybe not quite to Taro Tsujimoto levels....



Tsujimoto was the 183rd pick. A ten round draft would be 300, possibly more with expansion.

If you can, attend a draft. Maybe it's just me, but towards the end it seemed like many of the team reps are more interested in dinner/party plans than trying to convince their GM to pick a sleeper prospect.
Good comparison. The NHL draft from 1814something vs the NHL draft from 2015. I mean. Wow. Great. Fricking. Comparison.

Hockey throughout the world is exactly the same as it was back then. EXACTLY THE SAME.

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09-30-2015, 10:19 PM
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I'm not sure it was a 'comparison' as much as a story to share, and I have no problem with people sharing a story, especially as it relates to the question being asked.

I'd be happy if they shortened the draft, and I suspect the NHLPA will push for that in every negotiation they do, in order to have greater freedom for players to choose where they want to play/sign with. I think 5 rounds would be ideal right now.

It stands to reason to me that if not many 7th rounders are successful, that 8th rounders (or later) have an even lower chance of being successful. If players who are undrafted are invited to rookie/main camps, I don't see the harm in having a shorter draft.

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Old
09-30-2015, 10:37 PM
  #20
Brodeur
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Originally Posted by NA Scouting View Post
Good comparison. The NHL draft from 1814something vs the NHL draft from 2015. I mean. Wow. Great. Fricking. Comparison.

Hockey throughout the world is exactly the same as it was back then. EXACTLY THE SAME.
I. Wasn't. Implying. It. Was. The. Same. (I can patronize with effect too)

It was just an example that the late rounds of the draft aren't exactly as exciting as one might hope.

Like I said, I've sat through three recent drafts in person. Many of the team officials seem very eager to leave by the end. I'm not sure they'd really be that excited to add another 60+ picks.

For us draft geeks, it seems like a fun idea to have extra picks. But I think we've all been in fantasy drafts which dragged too long. As I mentioned before, there are travel considerations for teams (a bigger issue back when the draft concluded on Sunday).

I don't see a big deal in the difference between being a camp invite or being an 8th round pick. Is there something awful about somebody like Martin Jones choosing to attend the Kings camp and earning a contract? Does he lose sleep at night because he can't say he was drafted?

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Old
09-30-2015, 10:44 PM
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If the teams would see any reason to expand the draft they would simply do it, I figure. But they don't, so how is this an issue? Their choice, what does it matter to us?

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Old
09-30-2015, 11:00 PM
  #22
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It's probably better for marginal players that they go undrafted anyways. Attending dev camp or rookie camp doesn't mean much.

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Old
10-01-2015, 12:22 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnishLoomba View Post
so will there be like a baseball system where there's 3 leagues and u stock up ur teams in every league with draft prospects
It almost already is like that. You have your NHL team,AHL team, and ECHL team all affiliated with your prospect on either minor league team.

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Old
10-01-2015, 03:20 AM
  #24
Zaddy Zads
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I don't mind the way it is right now. I think it's probably the perfect amount. I used to think that it should be more rounds but there's really no point. Teams don't value their 6th/7th rounders that much as is so increasing it even further would be restrictive more than anything for the players that would get drafted past that round. Then again, it would be a bit of a boost for the kids that get drafted to actually belong to an NHL team, but if they're any good they'd get an invite anyway.

I guess the only real reason I could think of to extend beyond 7 rounds is that there's way more talent out there today than it was just a few years ago. The depth of talent is probably just gonna get deeper in the coming years, meaning a guy who would've been a 5th rounder from a couple of years ago could be an 8th rounder 5 years from now. There already was a lot of guys that went undrafted this year that really shouldn't have been, like Veini Vehvilšinen, Nathan Noel, Loik Leveille and many more.

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Old
10-01-2015, 03:55 AM
  #25
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I'm thinking the opposite of what's proposed here, the NHLPA view on shorter drafts sounds very reasonable to me. 5 rounds is enough with how many later round picks make a career in NHL. Of course it's not all bad since a 6th-7th round pick will also get some support from the organization he was drafted into, like consultation on training, food, supplements, etc.

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