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Flyers sign Shea Weber to 14-year offer sheet ($7.857M Cap Hit) (Pt VII)

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Old
07-22-2012, 12:21 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by NYR425 View Post
I think Nashville can not accept the package mentioned above. First even losing Weber Nashville has a ton of Defenseman. Nash needs forwards. As far as Read goes a very nice complimentary piece but not the cornerstone of a deal for Weber. I believe Philly has to include one of Schenn or Couturier. Think the deal would have to be 2 #1's, Schenn and Simmons at the very least. My thoughts are that Nashville matches though.
There are two decisions here:

A hockey decision under which every single person in the known universe matches.

A business decision that is a whole lot more complicated. The hockey portion clearly impacts the business side and vice versa. This reflects on the side of sports that fans often want to deny. Sometimes, teams make decisions that aren't all about winning.

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Old
07-22-2012, 12:21 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by wiseonewillis View Post
I absolutely love Voracek. He just needs to work on his shot. Awesome playmaker though. I wouldn't hesitate to trade him only if it helped guarantee weber or a trade for bobby ryan
LOL, Voracek would be a minor piece in a Ryan deal believe me, he's not coming to philly

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Old
07-22-2012, 12:21 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
They're either working on getting the money together or extracting a better return than 4 1st from the Flyers at this point.
This.

David Poile and Paul Holmgren are speaking today and it's not so Poile could say he's matching (he would just match). They are going to workout a trade that helps Nashville get some proven assets back instead of picks. Holmgren and Poile are friends, which is why, if you notice, there hasn't been ANY public mud-slinging in the media like when the Oilers signed Penner to a RFA sheet.

Here is the breakdown for those who actually want to understand and follow along...

1. Poile tries to sign Weber long-term but has to sign Suter first.

2. Suter signs with Minnesota and Poile is furious and hurt because he lost him for NOTHING.

3. Poile re-opens contract negotiations with Weber who says he does not want to be part of a rebuild, is mad that Suter left, and wants to pursue his career in another market after next season.

4. Weber's agent tells Poile it's in his best interest to trade Shea Weber now because he has no intentions of re-signing there after the season and he shouldn't lose Weber for nothing (the way he did with Suter).

5. Poile shops Weber to multiple teams for two weeks, while Shea Weber tours different markets, facilities and meets with teams.

6. Weber feels Philadelphia is the best fit for him and tells Poile that's where he would like to go if a trade can be worked out.

7. Poile and Holmgren have intense trade discussions for over a week and can't agree on a trade.

8. Holmgren and Weber agree to sign an offer sheet so the Flyers know if/when they trade assets for Weber, they have him signed long-term. In the process, they sign him to a sheet which they know the Preds ownership cannot match.

9. Poile meets with ownership and gives them an update on the events. He makes it clear that Weber does not want to commit long-term and their options are to smatch anyway or try and workout a follow-up hockey deal with the Flyers.

10. The owners feel matching is not in the club's best interest financially and Poile agrees.

11. Poile and Holmgren talk and decide on a fair compensation (not for Weber) but for some of the 1st round picks going back to Philadelphia.

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Old
07-22-2012, 12:23 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by pekkaslap View Post
If Weber is going to be a malcontent, then you don't match it. I just don't see that happening though, I don't think he's that kind of guy. I think he'll get his money either way and go out there and play his best hockey for either team. His agent said as much.
i disagree.


i match and keep him regardless. the damage done by losing him for late picks or paying 27M to trade him is greater than any damage he can do on the team.


i tell weber to deal with it. if he wants to play hockey, it will be for the preds. if he wants to win, it will be with the preds.

if he doesn't show up, oh well.





and im not a preds fan.

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Old
07-22-2012, 12:25 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by NYR425 View Post
I think Nashville can not accept the package mentioned above. First even losing Weber Nashville has a ton of Defenseman. Nash needs forwards. As far as Read goes a very nice complimentary piece but not the cornerstone of a deal for Weber. I believe Philly has to include one of Schenn or Couturier. Think the deal would have to be 2 #1's, Schenn and Simmons at the very least. My thoughts are that Nashville matches though.
Stop.

The Predators are NOT matching the damn deal. Come on people.

This has moved on and the Predators are stuck with picks unless they are willing to workout a HOCKEY deal for players on the Flyers roster, using PICKS (not Shea Weber) as trade bait.

The Philadelphia Flyers are not giving up Schenn and Simmonds for two 1st round picks. Do you realize how insane that sounds?

You need to look at the reality of the situation... this is not XBOX.

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07-22-2012, 12:25 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by NYR425 View Post
I think Nashville can not accept the package mentioned above. First even losing Weber Nashville has a ton of Defenseman. Nash needs forwards. As far as Read goes a very nice complimentary piece but not the cornerstone of a deal for Weber. I believe Philly has to include one of Schenn or Couturier. Think the deal would have to be 2 #1's, Schenn and Simmons at the very least. My thoughts are that Nashville matches though.
Philly doesn't HAVE to do anything. And if Couturier or Schenn were to be involved, the trade would've happened on Wednseday before the OS. In fact, whatever Holmgren was offering on Wednesday, he can now offer even less. 4 picks David, or a package we decide. Or you can match.

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07-22-2012, 12:26 PM
  #107
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Touching on the subject of a trade - Matt Read should have a lot of value to the Predators. Two-way forward who but up 20g+ 40p+ in his rookie year seeing secondary offensive minutes. Played PK, powerplay and is making only 900k for 2 more years (ideal for a budget team). If the Preds take Meszaros and possibly Gustafsson/Bourdon then they have $5mil+ against the cap in solid roster players without breaking the bank. Voracek could easily be available too, however if Schenns/Couts were available I doubt this offersheet would've happened. It's been shown all summer that Holmgren will not move Brayden or Sean.

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07-22-2012, 12:27 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
i disagree.


i match and keep him regardless. the damage done by losing him for late picks or paying 27M to trade him is greater than any damage he can do on the team.


i tell weber to deal with it. if he wants to play hockey, it will be for the preds. if he wants to win, it will be with the preds.

if he doesn't show up, oh well.

and im not a preds fan.
That's certainly easy to say if you're not the one writing the checks to a disgruntled Captain who doesn't want to be there....a very expensive point to make just because you can, don't you think?

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Old
07-22-2012, 12:29 PM
  #109
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and im not a preds fan.
I can tell.

Because no Preds fan willingly wants a Rick Nash situation on their hands. No Preds fan wants (or should want) a player on their team who does NOT WANT to be be there, especially the team captain. No Preds fan wants to see their team completely immobilized financially because of Weber's contract to the point where they can't add other high-end pieces around him.


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Old
07-22-2012, 12:33 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
i disagree.


i match and keep him regardless. the damage done by losing him for late picks or paying 27M to trade him is greater than any damage he can do on the team.


i tell weber to deal with it. if he wants to play hockey, it will be for the preds. if he wants to win, it will be with the preds.

if he doesn't show up, oh well.





and im not a preds fan.

So, in your mind, paying 27 million in the first year, and having him NOT play is better then getting 4 #1's??? Or trading the #1's to philly for players? How does that benefit Nashville at all? I'm being 100% sincere here. How does that help Nashville? No one in the hockey world would EVER do this.

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Old
07-22-2012, 12:34 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
That's certainly easy to say if you're not the one writing the checks to a disgruntled Captain who doesn't want to be there....a very expensive point to make just because you can, don't you think?
but they are willing to pay him are they not? to keep him forever?



if money is not the problem, then like i said keeping disgruntled shea weber is the least of all evils.

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07-22-2012, 12:34 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Philly doesn't HAVE to do anything. And if Couturier or Schenn were to be involved, the trade would've happened on Wednseday before the OS. In fact, whatever Holmgren was offering on Wednesday, he can now offer even less. 4 picks David, or a package we decide. Or you can match.
I give up.

Let people think what they want. They keep ignoring the reality of the situation and think this is NHL Easports where someone is trading Shea Weber for approved XB0X value. This is not video games or fantasy hockey.

The Predators have realized they are losing Weber. He doesn't want to be there, didn't workout a deal with them (which is why Poile was TRYING TO TRADE HIM!!!) You don't TRY TO TRADE a player if the team and the player WANT to sign a deal long-term.

Weber is not part of Nashville's future. Time to move on. If the Flyers were willing to move either Schenn or Couturier, a trade would have been completed before last Wednesday.

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07-22-2012, 12:36 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
The first part his agent has said numerous times
Unless I've missed something again, I don't think his agent has said "Weber doesn't want to play for NSH any more and will be upset." I think people are reaching that conclusion from what the agent actually has said.

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07-22-2012, 12:38 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
People need to understand the Predators can't match and now need to make a hockey deal. Weber is a goner.
And they also need to understand this is your opinion as to what will happen, not a factual statement.

You may be right, but until it actually does happen, we won't know.

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Old
07-22-2012, 12:39 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
if money is not the problem
I take it you don't follow the Predators. Money IS A HUGE PROBLEM, especially up front cash. They recently had to RAISE $25 million to help cover team loses. David Poile needed to get APPROVAL from the owners to bring in a player with a prorated $2 million contract at the deadline. Money is a HUGE issue, which is why the Flyers structured the deal in a way which there was no financially viable chance the Predators could sign. You know who matches that Weber offer sheet? The New York Rangers or Toronto Maple Leafs.... not a small market franchise that has been LOSING millions year after year.

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07-22-2012, 12:42 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
but they are willing to pay him are they not? to keep him forever?

if money is not the problem, then like i said keeping disgruntled shea weber is the least of all evils.
Two points:

1) I think money IS a problem

2) Ask Scott Howson if he thinks keeping a disgruntled Rick Nash is the "least of all evils".

If it's true that Weber wants out, then it doesn't make any sense for Nashville put themselves in a hole, financially speaking, for a player that doesn't want to be there.

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07-22-2012, 12:42 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
I give up.

Let people think what they want. They keep ignoring the reality of the situation and think this is NHL Easports where someone is trading Shea Weber for approved XB0X value. This is not video games or fantasy hockey.

The Predators have realized they are losing Weber. He doesn't want to be there, didn't workout a deal with them (which is why Poile was TRYING TO TRADE HIM!!!) You don't TRY TO TRADE a player if the team and the player WANT to sign a deal long-term.

Weber is not part of Nashville's future. Time to move on. If the Flyers were willing to move either Schenn or Couturier, a trade would have been completed before last Wednesday.
The last OS trade the Flyers gave up Renberg and Dykhuis FOR ALL FOUR PICKS RETURNED. Yea Nashville is getting Schenn, Simmonds AND keeping two picks? Ok.

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07-22-2012, 12:42 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
And they also need to understand this is your opinion as to what will happen, not a factual statement.

You may be right, but until it actually does happen, we won't know.


If the Predators were going to match, they would have matched within 24 hours (or at least in the last 4 DAYS).

If the Predators were going to match, David Poile and his management team wouldn't have scheduled a phone conference with Paul Holmgren today. They are working out a trade for the picks.

I guess you're right, it didn't "actually happen" yet.... but guess what, we are all going to die one day. Even though it hasn't happened yet, it's still GOING TO happen because it's inevitable.

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07-22-2012, 12:43 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Unless I've missed something again, I don't think his agent has said "Weber doesn't want to play for NSH any more and will be upset." I think people are reaching that conclusion from what the agent actually has said.
- After they trade Suter Weber and Co decided they wanted to explore different options and went shopping

- Weber does not want to be part of another rebuild

- Weber wants to play in Philadelphia, otherwise he wouldn't have signed the offer sheet

- If Nashville matches Weber will see where he goes from there when the time comes

Those are things his agent said, what about that doesn't strongly suggest that he has a clear preference not to be in Nashville.

Obviously, he has some willingness to return, or he wouldn't have signed the offer sheet (unless he literally KNEW they couldn't match). I'm sure if they match he'll be a complete professional, but it's clear his preference is to not go back.

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07-22-2012, 12:44 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post


If the Predators were going to match, they would have matched within 24 hours (or at least in the last 4 DAYS).

If the Predators were going to match, David Poile and his management team wouldn't have scheduled a phone conference with Paul Holmgren today. They are working out a trade for the picks.

I guess you're right, it didn't "actually happen" yet.... but guess what, we are all going to die one day. Even though it hasn't happened yet, it's still GOING TO happen because it's inevitable.
Do you have sources for any of the "facts" you are giving? Even a hint as to how you know this?

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07-22-2012, 12:44 PM
  #121
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Delete - posted while I was in the middle of typing, for some weird reason.

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07-22-2012, 12:49 PM
  #122
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I absolutely love Voracek. He just needs to work on his shot. Awesome playmaker though. I wouldn't hesitate to trade him only if it helped guarantee weber or a trade for bobby ryan
I agree, just the way his name was thrown around. I actually wanted the Flyers to take him second over JVR the year he was drafted and am a big fan of his. Just would stink to see him go (though I understand why...)

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07-22-2012, 12:50 PM
  #123
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Do you have sources for any of the "facts" you are giving? Even a hint as to how you know this?
Yes and not giving hints. But a Philly station accidentally leaked the scheduled phone call between Holmgren and Poile from what I understand.

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07-22-2012, 12:50 PM
  #124
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So, in your mind, paying 27 million in the first year, and having him NOT play is better then getting 4 #1's??? Or trading the #1's to philly for players? How does that benefit Nashville at all? I'm being 100% sincere here. How does that help Nashville? No one in the hockey world would EVER do this.


what do mean pay him and not have him play? are you talking about a lockout or holdout?

if they were willing to pay and keep suter and weber at market value, then money should not be the reason they do not sign him. they knew all along a lockout might happen.

Im not sure how bonus money would would work if he were to hold-out, i have to imagine based on breach of contract they could retroactively get the money back.





im not suggesting they they match to trade him in a year, im suggesting they match and keep him forever.



losing him for garbage will be brutally damaging to the team.
paying 27M to trade him for a better package is not fiscally viable for nashville.
keeping a disgruntled weber does the best job of maintaining nashvilles level of success.

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07-22-2012, 12:52 PM
  #125
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4 more days


I don't see why people keep including Radulov in big loses.. He came over at the end of the season and STILL had attitude problems in the playoffs.

Huge loss there
He also was their leading scorer in the playoffs, though, wasn't he? As pathetic as his D and attitude may have been, there's no question that his offensive skills are very high-end.

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