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2012 HFTML Draft DISCUSSION Part 4

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Old
07-29-2012, 11:25 PM
  #326
Tonka
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Also, Tonka, can you stop using Detroit as an elite offensive team? They've had a good PP, but they aren't elite offensively.. The reason why they won the Cup was because of their ability to play guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom in all situations. They were far from an elite offensive team..
Guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg are not elite? I don't get it, so now the issue is about two way players? What about Lecavalier, Richards and St. Louis? Not to mention their forward was their most important and valuable player.

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07-29-2012, 11:28 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Tonka View Post
Guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg are not elite? I don't get it, so now the issue is about two way players? What about Lecavalier, Richards and St. Louis?
No. But that's the reason why Detroit won the Cup. Having Datsyuk and Zetterberg out there against the other teams best players and still being able to produce both defensively and offensively.. No defense isn't the only thing that wins championships, but its a bigger portion then offense. If you can't score a goal on me, you can't beat me. You can score 4 goals a game, but still lose.

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07-29-2012, 11:29 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Tonka View Post
I don't see how guys like Myers, Carlson, Morris are any better than Ference, Salvador, Jackman.


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07-29-2012, 11:30 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
No. But that's the reason why Detroit won the Cup. Having Datsyuk and Zetterberg out there against the other teams best players and still being able to produce both defensively and offensively.. No defense isn't the only thing that wins championships, but its a bigger portion then offense. If you can't score a goal on me, you can't beat me. You can score 4 goals a game, but still lose.
You are just assuming we can't score a goal on you. Your forward crop is not even that great. So you are relying on your defense to do most of the work?

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07-29-2012, 11:32 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Tonka View Post
You are just assuming we can't score a goal on you. Your forward crop is not even that great. So you are relying on your defense to do most of the work?
I'm not assuming you can't score a goal. I'm not even using my team as a reference. I'm talking about overall. Defense wins. Doesn't have to be defensemen or forwards. It doesn't matter. If you can't score goals, you can't win..

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07-29-2012, 11:36 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
I'm not assuming you can't score a goal. I'm not even using my team as a reference. I'm talking about overall. Defense wins. Doesn't have to be defensemen or forwards. It doesn't matter. If you can't score goals, you can't win..
So then you are not arguing Quebec can't score goals, you are just arguing in general then. Sure...if you can't score goals, you can't win. Agreed. Defense wins, goaltending wins, offense wins, team wins.

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07-29-2012, 11:38 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Tonka View Post
So then you are not arguing Quebec can't score goals, you are just arguing in general then. Sure...if you can't score goals, you can't win. Agree.
You're using unfair comparisons anyways. You're comparing your fantasy roster with 24 teams to a team that was far more difficult to put together and in a 30 team league, where the results are already known..

I think if Schenn gets some knowledgeable people to do the judging, which I'm sure he will, the results will be a lot different then everyone thinks..

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07-29-2012, 11:41 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
You're using unfair comparisons anyways. You're comparing your fantasy roster with 24 teams to a team that was far more difficult to put together and in a 30 team league, where the results are already known..

I think if Schenn gets some knowledgeable people to do the judging, which I'm sure he will, the results will be a lot different then everyone thinks..
No, I am using comparisons from the past 3 drafts I have been involved in.

1: Fairness is subjective in this league.
2: What's a knowledgeable judge? A judge that fits your criteria of judging?
3: We drafted knowing this is 24 team league, not a 30 team league. There is a reason why we went after forwards first rather than defensemen, because we made projections as to where players will fall...So no, we are not only judging it on last draft, we are judging it on the previous drafts and last draft.


Last edited by Tonka: 07-29-2012 at 11:47 PM.
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07-29-2012, 11:42 PM
  #334
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No, I am using comparisons from the past 3 drafts I have been involved in.
I think the last draft should be considered null and void, considering the trades that occurred. You'll never again see 4 top 10 picks on the same team.

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07-29-2012, 11:56 PM
  #335
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As far as judging goes, Schenn should not say anything to the judges and let them decide for themselves what is the best team along with why. The only details I would give the judges would be:

A) No injuries
B) Overall career looked at, not just one bad year if its an anomaly
C) What team has the best chance of winning the Cup now!

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07-29-2012, 11:59 PM
  #336
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As for the team that I like beside ours is probably Gregggg's team (not sure whether my GM would agree or not) and I would not say his defense is as great either (sorry Gregggg). His second pairing has guys who were 5th in minutes amongst defenseman on their teams which is why I am skeptical of his defense. But he has Crosby, Iginla and Parise which I believe can be tough to play against.

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07-30-2012, 01:33 AM
  #337
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Some quick rankings here:

Detroit
Chicago
Dallas
Minnesota

St. Louis
Quebec
Phoenix
Winnipeg
Boston

Outside of the top 3/4, it is not in order just a general top 10. I looked at top 9 instead of top 6 for scoring, I gave negative points for soft tweeners on the third line. Top 9 and top 5 were most important aspects, 4th line and #6d were valued less. If you had a well rounded team, like Detroit, I had you as favourites. Strong offense/defence and a lack of depth or glaring weaknesses in other areas knocked you down. If you had a good offence but bad defence but had great goaltending obviously it would balance a bit. I know I have myself and my former team in the top 4 but I honestly feel they belong there. Detroit is the favorite in my eyes, and dallas also has a very nice rounded team. There were some tough choices near the bottom of my top 10, and personal favourites largely played a factor in who made the cut and who didnt.

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07-30-2012, 01:33 AM
  #338
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woops forgot one, add Colorado to that list

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07-30-2012, 01:47 AM
  #339
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How you forgot Hartford is laughable.

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07-30-2012, 01:49 AM
  #340
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To each their own but that's a weird ranking IMO lol

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07-30-2012, 01:56 AM
  #341
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07-30-2012, 01:58 AM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baarle View Post
Some quick rankings here:

Detroit
Chicago
Dallas
Minnesota

St. Louis
Quebec
Phoenix
Winnipeg
Boston

Outside of the top 3/4, it is not in order just a general top 10. I looked at top 9 instead of top 6 for scoring, I gave negative points for soft tweeners on the third line. Top 9 and top 5 were most important aspects, 4th line and #6d were valued less. If you had a well rounded team, like Detroit, I had you as favourites. Strong offense/defence and a lack of depth or glaring weaknesses in other areas knocked you down. If you had a good offence but bad defence but had great goaltending obviously it would balance a bit. I know I have myself and my former team in the top 4 but I honestly feel they belong there. Detroit is the favorite in my eyes, and dallas also has a very nice rounded team. There were some tough choices near the bottom of my top 10, and personal favourites largely played a factor in who made the cut and who didnt.

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07-30-2012, 02:00 AM
  #343
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This gif literally made me laugh for 5 mins straight.

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07-30-2012, 09:50 AM
  #344
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pm me please wanna trade...miller, backes, weber and pominville are not getting dealt

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07-30-2012, 10:14 AM
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baarle View Post
Some quick rankings here:

Detroit
Chicago
Dallas
Minnesota

St. Louis
Quebec
Phoenix
Winnipeg
Boston
Detroit needs to fix up their goaltending before they can be considered a top 4 team IMO. Neither Bryz, nor Nabby have any history of prolonged post season success. Along with that, neither one was that good last season. Bryz was good when playing in a tight defensive system, but struggled in Philly's run n gun type system.

With the team Detroit has, run and gun seems like the most likely system.

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07-30-2012, 10:55 AM
  #346
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
Detroit needs to fix up their goaltending before they can be considered a top 4 team IMO. Neither Bryz, nor Nabby have any history of prolonged post season success. Along with that, neither one was that good last season. Bryz was good when playing in a tight defensive system, but struggled in Philly's run n gun type system.

With the team Detroit has, run and gun seems like the most likely system.
Not sure about a run-and-gun style. I see my team as more of a well balanced team. I'm alright going into judging with Nabby and Bryz as my tandem. Nabby had a very good year with the Islanders last year and is at worst a league average goalie. I can't see someone such as Niklas Backstrom (tender for the 2nd place team last draft) being that much more of an upgrade over Nabokov. .915 sv% and 2.55 GAA are pretty good numbers considering he was tending for the lowly Islanders. Bryz is a pretty good insurance policy if Nabby falters IMO.

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07-30-2012, 11:36 AM
  #347
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I'm looking for another top line scoring winger or top end 2nd line C. PM me.

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07-30-2012, 11:43 AM
  #348
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I'm looking for another top line scoring winger or top end 2nd line C. PM me.
Desharnais is available

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07-30-2012, 12:18 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by TorontoMarleauLeafs View Post
Not sure about a run-and-gun style. I see my team as more of a well balanced team. I'm alright going into judging with Nabby and Bryz as my tandem. Nabby had a very good year with the Islanders last year and is at worst a league average goalie. I can't see someone such as Niklas Backstrom (tender for the 2nd place team last draft) being that much more of an upgrade over Nabokov. .915 sv% and 2.55 GAA are pretty good numbers considering he was tending for the lowly Islanders. Bryz is a pretty good insurance policy if Nabby falters IMO.
Plus you have a strong top 4 as well, and a good third line

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07-30-2012, 12:21 PM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baarle View Post
Some quick rankings here:

Detroit
Chicago
Dallas
Minnesota

St. Louis
Quebec
Phoenix
Winnipeg
Boston

Outside of the top 3/4, it is not in order just a general top 10. I looked at top 9 instead of top 6 for scoring, I gave negative points for soft tweeners on the third line. Top 9 and top 5 were most important aspects, 4th line and #6d were valued less. If you had a well rounded team, like Detroit, I had you as favourites. Strong offense/defence and a lack of depth or glaring weaknesses in other areas knocked you down. If you had a good offence but bad defence but had great goaltending obviously it would balance a bit. I know I have myself and my former team in the top 4 but I honestly feel they belong there. Detroit is the favorite in my eyes, and dallas also has a very nice rounded team. There were some tough choices near the bottom of my top 10, and personal favourites largely played a factor in who made the cut and who didnt.
Appreciate the ranking. I'll be happy with a top 5 finish.

I feel I have a deep team up front with one of the best third lines with Sobotka - Hanzal - Foligno. Top that off with legit scoring options with Elias, Backstrom and Perry and solid secondary scoring with Kostitsyn, Setoguchi and Zajac.

It was easy this time around with fewer GM's.

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