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Visnovsky trying to void trade to Isles - UPDATE: More Drama (post #510)

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Old
01-08-2013, 07:58 PM
  #926
Faterson
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KHL Prez Medvedev to SportsDaily.ru: New CBA may be basis for terminating existing contracts, some players will stay.
Quote:
More Medvedev. "NHL's opinion of itself is so high... OK, let them get drunk on their greatness. We'll see how many Euros look our way"
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And more Medvedev. "Our league will act according to our own and international rules. If players decide to stay, we will help them."
Kudos to Medvedev, if those quotes are exact. That's the word of a man, and the gas baron that he is. The NHL has been doing to the European hockey leagues, what now Višňovský attempts to do, for decades... and no one in North America gave a damn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
The KHL has been a joke of a league and always will be one.
Why exactly is the world's second best hockey league a "joke"? Listening to you guys moan about how bad the Islanders defence is without Višňovský, I get the distinct impression that Slovan Bratislava's defensive corps, with Višňovský and Sekera on it, might actually be more solid than the Islanders defence. That's comparing a KHL team with an NHL team. Slovan's defence managed to limit Ovechkin's, Kovalchuk's and Malkin's teams to 1 or 2 goals allowed in most games... if that's a joke, it's a good one.

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01-08-2013, 08:01 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Medvedev is indeed an idiot.

It states clearly in the Standard Player's Contract that the SPC can be altered by the terms of future CBAs. Maybe if he read what was included in a SPC he would see that nothing in the contract makes it voidable for the player.

It's an empty threat.

edit : If you want to read up on the SPC, http://www.nhlfa.com/CBA/2005-CBA.pdf it starts at page 244
Bingo.

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01-08-2013, 08:08 PM
  #928
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NHL simply can't make trouble with the Olympics. They would lose even more players and bigger stars. Do you really think that Ovechkin or Malkin would not play in Russia-hosted Olympic Tournament? Malkin already didn't seem too happy going back to NHL, ban him from the Olympics and he will surely leave. And I'm sure there are many other players of many nationalities that would be really pissed off too.

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01-08-2013, 08:09 PM
  #929
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I'm not trolling. I thought it was in Soviet Russia where everyone was required to have the same opinion. When I saw you insulting the KHL President for standing up for his players, as well as ridiculing the league as such with little to go on, I expressed an alternative point of view. That's all. No need to worry, I'm too busy to hang around here much.

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01-08-2013, 09:19 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
I'm not trolling. I thought it was in Soviet Russia where everyone was required to have the same opinion. When I saw you insulting the KHL President for standing up for his players, as well as ridiculing the league as such with little to go on, I expressed an alternative point of view. That's all. No need to worry, I'm too busy to hang around here much.
Not exactly his players considering they're running away from contracts they signed in NA. Let them stay in Russia, I'm sure the IIHF will happily bar them from any future international competition.

Hope this all gets sorted out for you guys. A shame that you have to deal with this garbage.

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01-08-2013, 09:36 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Neil Patrick Harris View Post
Not exactly his players considering they're running away from contracts they signed in NA.
Višňovský didn't run away from anything. He was ready to play for the Islanders in early October. NHL club owners, including the Islanders owner, preferred to lock the players out for almost 5 months. Višňovský is now playing in the KHL, with the season entering its final stage. Accept it and move on! He might be back with the Isles in 2013/14, in case the Isles are still interested. I'm pretty sure Višňovský would be willing to sign an agreement saying this: "If I'm ever to return to the NHL, the Islanders would get the first option on my services."

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Originally Posted by Neil Patrick Harris View Post
I'm sure the IIHF will happily bar them from any future international competition.
Just remember this is not an issue for Višňovský because he resigned from Slovakia's national team 2 years ago, rejecting all invitations to return since, saying that younger players should play instead. In this, he's exactly mirroring his friend Ziggy Pálffy's statements.


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01-08-2013, 10:01 PM
  #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
Višňovský didn't run away from anything. He was ready to play for the Islanders in early October. NHL club owners, including the Islanders owner, preferred to lock the players out for almost 5 months. Višňovský is now playing in the KHL, with the season entering its final stage.
You mean, the players, as represented by their counsel, chose not to accept the owner's first proposal and thus avoid a lockout. It works that way too. Either way, all sides agreed to a new CBA unless you think Fehr accepting the owner's last proposal with tweaks was operating on his own and not at the behest of every and each union member who pay him to be there doing exactly what he did.

Look Fats, you are in hostile territory, trying to defend a POS who is reneging on a contract that he agreed to honor to it's fullest. You are the troll in this instance. I recommend growing up and at least being honest about the situation. His actions will directly hurt a team that gave him the respect of trading a valuable 2nd rounder for his last year with no guarantees he'd come back after that final year. I know it blows because of the distance vs. his family location, but it's a contract worth millions, and now he will be starting a diplomatic incident over it. That pretty much underlines what little class or honor he has. Our club could have used that 2nd rounder now as part of a package to score a different defenseman, but because Vis won't honor the contract he himself signed, we get screwed. There is no defense for that, and given the stupid way Wang has spent on worse talent than Vis, he probably could have gotten a fat contract extension next year if he played up to his standards. That's just plain dumb.

On another related topic, so what does Snowang do to fill in the enormous hole on defense now? I see Martinek being thrown around like some sort of solution, but that's not an answer at all. That's an injury about to happen considering the way a shortened season with games crammed in sideways each week will 110% result in an uptick in injuries. Does anyone in here doubt for even a minute that Radek will go down with a big one, causing us to go to a rookie/AHL scrub fill in? Bad idea folks! Bad, bad, bad... We need to fix this hole once and for all. I don't really care WHO we have to trade (not named Tavares) to fix it at this point, but fix it for good they must or lose what little credibility is left in the Wang/Snow cupboard. It is time for change.


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Old
01-08-2013, 10:34 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Our club could have used that 2nd rounder now as part of a package to score a different defenseman, but because Vis won't honor the contract he himself signed, we get screwed.
Why do you dismiss, out of hand, the possibility of the NHL granting the Isles a compensatory 2nd round draft pick? That's exactly what compensatory draft picks are for: to compensate for something unforeseen that happened. In this case, the unforeseen was the combination of the NHL lockout with Višňovský's hometown club becoming a KHL expansion team this very season and unexpectedly playing so well it will be fighting for a play-off spot in the upcoming weeks, so that Višňovský would feel extremely bad about ditching the team at this critical stage.

Remember when the young star Cherepanov died in the KHL a few years ago? I think the Rangers who had drafted him were awarded a compensatory draft pick. Well, imagine Lubo is dead. (It almost seems like some of you in your fury would actually prefer that to be the case.) What can you do? You can request the NHL to award you a compensatory 2nd round draft pick.

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01-08-2013, 10:46 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
Why do you dismiss, out of hand, the possibility of the NHL granting the Isles a compensatory 2nd round draft pick? That's exactly what compensatory draft picks are for: to compensate for something unforeseen that happened. In this case, the unforeseen was the combination of the NHL lockout with Višňovský's hometown club becoming a KHL expansion team this very season and unexpectedly playing so well it will be fighting for a play-off spot in the upcoming weeks, so that Višňovský would feel extremely bad about ditching the team at this critical stage.

Remember when the young star Cherepanov died in the KHL a few years ago? I think the Rangers who had drafted him were awarded a compensatory draft pick. Well, imagine Lubo is dead. (It almost seems like some of you in your fury would actually prefer that to be the case.) What can you do? You can request the NHL to award you a compensatory 2nd round draft pick.
For the same reason that the league didn't offer us a compensatory pick when Nabby refused to appear. The only reason the Rangers got a pick for Chery was because he died, and even then everyone was mystified about why they did it. But not only is Vis not dead, but he is not a building block for the future. If he walks we will receive nothing.

But if you know of the legal language granting us this fantasy pick please provide the quote and reference please, but I know you don't have it because it doesn't exist.

As for him feeling bad, please give it a rest. He's been doing everything he can not to play for us since we traded for him, and always with the caveat "But it doesn't mean I don't like you." Please, it is insulting to think he believes that we and the organization are that stupid.

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01-08-2013, 11:23 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
He was ready to play for the Islanders in early October.
Pure speculation on your part.

Quote:
NHL club owners, including the Islanders owner, preferred to lock the players out for almost 5 months.
As part of a labor dispute. Visnovsky is part of the NHLPA, which was the other half of the dispute. Visnovsky was well represented in the whole process.

Quote:
Višňovský is now playing in the KHL, with the season entering its final stage.
The NHL players that went overseas and the Euro teams that they played on were fully aware of the fact that if/when CBA was put in place, the players would report back to the NHL team with whom they are under contract. Whatever "stage" the season is in is irrelevant.

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Accept it and move on!
Accept that he's under contract in the NHL, just like the rest of the players coming back to the NHL.

Quote:
He might be back with the Isles in 2013/14, in case the Isles are still interested.
Pure baseless speculation on your part.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure Višňovský would be willing to sign an agreement saying this: "If I'm ever to return to the NHL, the Islanders would get the first option on my services."
Pure baseless speculation on your part.

Quote:
Višňovský's hometown club becoming a KHL expansion team this very season and unexpectedly playing so well it will be fighting for a play-off spot in the upcoming weeks, so that Višňovský would feel extremely bad about ditching the team at this critical stage.
Irrelevant.

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Old
01-08-2013, 11:41 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
For the same reason that the league didn't offer us a compensatory pick when Nabby refused to appear. The only reason the Rangers got a pick for Chery was because he died, and even then everyone was mystified about why they did it. But not only is Vis not dead, but he is not a building block for the future. If he walks we will receive nothing.

But if you know of the legal language granting us this fantasy pick please provide the quote and reference please, but I know you don't have it because it doesn't exist.

As for him feeling bad, please give it a rest. He's been doing everything he can not to play for us since we traded for him, and always with the caveat "But it doesn't mean I don't like you." Please, it is insulting to think he believes that we and the organization are that stupid.
I know I'm probably wrong but I've always felt that the only reason the Rangers got a compensatory draft pick was because they're the RANGERS. We lost a draft pick Bruce Melanson in a similar fashion and we received nothing. Hope I'm wrong but I doubt that will receive any compensation from the league.

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01-08-2013, 11:43 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
But if you know of the legal language granting us this fantasy pick please provide the quote and reference please
That's the Islanders management's job to do. They can argue this is a completely novel situation (and it is), so the NHL needs a new rule to deal with it. There is no parallel to the Nabokov case. (In fact, it's the exact opposite, with Nabokov pursuing an NHL team as his goal.)

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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
As for him feeling bad, please give it a rest.
No, you let go of your prejudice and open your eyes to reality. Lubo loves the club that raised him and introduced him to big-time hockey, and feels it's time, at his advanced age, to give something back to the club, in its seminal season of being a KHL expansion team. Especially after having already played 30+ games this season with the club, and with only 11 games left to go, in the midst of a play-off race.

Watch this 4-minute locker-room interview with Lubo from Sunday, as he talks about having just played his final game for Slovan and moving on to the Islanders. You won't understand the Slovak words, but watch his face and expressions. Do you really think this is someone who's play-acting? Something happened between that Sunday evening and Monday, because on Monday he announced he would finish his season with Slovan. (He did mention in the interview he would have to discuss his decision with his family that night or the following day.)


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01-09-2013, 12:23 AM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
That's the Islanders management's job to do. They can argue this is a completely novel situation (and it is), so the NHL needs a new rule to deal with it. There is no parallel to the Nabokov case. (In fact, it's the exact opposite, with Nabokov pursuing an NHL team as his goal.)


No, you let go of your prejudice and open your eyes to reality. Lubo loves the club that raised him and introduced him to big-time hockey, and feels it's time, at his advanced age, to give something back to the club, in its seminal season of being a KHL expansion team. Especially after having already played 30+ games this season with the club, and with only 11 games left to go, in the midst of a play-off race.

Watch this 4-minute locker-room interview with Lubo from Sunday, as he talks about having just played his final game for Slovan and moving on to the Islanders. You won't understand the Slovak words, but watch his face and expressions. Do you really think this is someone who's play-acting? Something happened between that Sunday evening and Monday, because on Monday he announced he would finish his season with Slovan. (He did mention in the interview he would have to discuss his decision with his family that night or the following day.)

He has a preexisting contractl. End of story. Is it hard to understand? If he wanted to go back home at some point he should have signed one year deals. Oh wait, that would be less money, so he signed a long term deal that he doesn't want to honor. Inexcusable. He can retire or play for us. There is no other fair option. In no other industry is it ok to have 2 contracts running simulatneously. If he wants to stay in the hockey industry, he needs to come here. Otherwise he is a jerk. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter how much he wants to stay. He made a deal and he should honor it. If he doesn't he's a liar and perhaps worse, a thief.

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01-09-2013, 12:40 AM
  #939
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You're certainly not mincing your words, Titan 124. It's all a matter of perspective. I can only tell you that most Europeans would very likely find it difficult to refer to hockey as an "industry". Even referring to it as a "business" makes us feel uncomfortable. I believe most Europeans would view hockey as a pleasurable form of entertainment... part of a nation's culture, perhaps... or even a form of art. But to see hockey as just another branch of industry or business... like the car industry or the banking industry... that's definitely a North American concept.

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01-09-2013, 12:42 AM
  #940
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Tweet from Daniel Friedman :

"From what I'm hearing right now, Lubomir Visnovsky will be an Islander. Stay posted, though"

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01-09-2013, 12:46 AM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
You're certainly not mincing your words, Titan 124. It's all a matter of perspective. I can only tell you that most Europeans would very likely find it difficult to refer to hockey as an "industry". Even referring to it as a "business" makes us feel uncomfortable. I believe most Europeans would view hockey as a pleasurable form of entertainment... part of a nation's culture, perhaps... or even a form of art. But to see hockey as just another branch of industry or business... like the car industry or the banking industry... that's definitely a North American concept.
.

Whether hockey is a business or entertainment, a person either has integrity or they don't. Most people with integrity stand by their obligations even when it's inconvenient.

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01-09-2013, 12:56 AM
  #942
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But opinions may differ as to what is his bigger obligation right now: what you see as his legal or "business" obligation to join the Islanders, or what others might see as his moral obligation to help out his hometown team, and not to ditch the team in the midst of a play-off race.

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01-09-2013, 01:05 AM
  #943
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
But opinions may differ as to what is his bigger obligation right now: what you see as his legal or "business" obligation to join the Islanders, or what others might see as his moral obligation to help out his hometown team, and not to ditch the team in the midst of a play-off race.
Simple compromise would be for him to play for us after his hometown team's season is finished and sign a 1 year extension at the same salary for next year so that we get 80 plus games for our draft pick.

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01-09-2013, 01:14 AM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
But opinions may differ as to what is his bigger obligation right now: what you see as his legal or "business" obligation to join the Islanders, or what others might see as his moral obligation to help out his hometown team, and not to ditch the team in the midst of a play-off race.
Regardless of circumstances, I fail to see any "morality" in setting an example based on breaking the rules...

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01-09-2013, 01:15 AM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
But opinions may differ as to what is his bigger obligation right now: what you see as his legal or "business" obligation to join the Islanders, or what others might see as his moral obligation to help out his hometown team, and not to ditch the team in the midst of a play-off race.
Moral obligation to play in the KHL?????? LOL

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01-09-2013, 01:25 AM
  #946
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Originally Posted by original islander View Post
Simple compromise would be for him to play for us after his hometown team's season is finished and sign a 1 year extension at the same salary for next year so that we get 80 plus games for our draft pick.
That's definitely reasonable. Something for his agent and the Islanders management to talk about. Any compromise solution is better than outright conflict.

Meanwhile, it's Wednesday morning in Russia, and a lengthy interview with KHL boss Medvedev has just been published:

http://www.sportsdaily.ru/articles/p...hey-lige-53684

In the interview, Medvedev unequivocally repeats that if any player currently in the KHL decides not to return to the NHL, he will have the KHL's full backing and support. I'm sure Višňovský will be glad to hear that. Medvedev says that this is his interpretation of the earlier agreement between the NHL and KHL -- in case of an NHL lockout. Also, he says he knows of several players with NHL contracts who seriously consider not returning from the KHL to the NHL, but that he's not allowed to name names right now. (Kovalchuk readily comes to mind.)

PS: Jágr disobeyed the prohibition from Dallas Stars last night and played a farewell game for his hometown club of Kladno in the Czech league (he now also co-owns the club).

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01-09-2013, 01:28 AM
  #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
But opinions may differ as to what is his bigger obligation right now: what you see as his legal or "business" obligation to join the Islanders, or what others might see as his moral obligation to help out his hometown team, and not to ditch the team in the midst of a play-off race.
A moral obligation is doing the right thing. And the right thing is to honour the deal he has signed, don't you realise that? His moral obligation is to play for the Islanders or, preferably, wherever they decide to trade him.

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01-09-2013, 01:38 AM
  #948
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And the right thing is to honour the deal he has signed, don't you realise that?
It's not as clear-cut as that. He signed a 5-year extension with the LA Kings that included a no-trade clause. If anyone told him back then he'd be traded to 3 different teams within those 5 years, I'm sure he would have thought the person was raving mad. And now you're threatening him with being traded for the fourth time within those five years...

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01-09-2013, 01:57 AM
  #949
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It's not as clear-cut as that. He signed a 5-year extension with the LA Kings that included a no-trade clause. If anyone told him back then he'd be traded to 3 different teams within those 5 years, I'm sure he would have thought the person was raving mad. And now you're threatening him with being traded for the fourth time within those five years...
In the NHL players can get traded at any time. Visnovsky knows this and it's part and parcel of the game. He got a NTC but it was voided when he was dealt previously and he knows this too becuase he challenged it and LOST. Signing a deal guarantees you the money and term but nothing more and that is something all players accept. The fact that Lubomir Visnovsky decides to act like a sulking crybaby says more about him, as a person and an athlete, than anything else.

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01-09-2013, 02:02 AM
  #950
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
You're certainly not mincing your words, Titan 124. It's all a matter of perspective. I can only tell you that most Europeans would very likely find it difficult to refer to hockey as an "industry". Even referring to it as a "business" makes us feel uncomfortable. I believe most Europeans would view hockey as a pleasurable form of entertainment... part of a nation's culture, perhaps... or even a form of art. But to see hockey as just another branch of industry or business... like the car industry or the banking industry... that's definitely a North American concept.
He was paid 25 million dollars of his 28 million dollars already, in his very nice front-loaded deal. Sounds a lot like business, not so much a pleasurable form of anything.

If he wants to play shinny hockey close to home then he can do so next season. He's earned that right, starting in 2013-14, not before.

While I understand he may be emotionally attached to that team, which is wonderful, but he owes the NHL another year of service, period. I don't see any reason for any compromise, even if there was one, which there is not.

Pretty low to battle with the nhlpa, lose half a year after almost disclaiming as a union and after the post-goodenow fiasco only to turn your back on the very contract you jut finished fighting for. It's inconceivable and completely dishonourable.

To play the emotional card is way off base when looking at right & wrong here.

Also, I'm continually amazed at how bad some of these very rich men are at public relations and relationship management among players, agents, league, nhlpa and media. These guys make so many mistakes and I cannot fathom why. Is there no good advice these people can purchase? Maybe let the agents talk for them?

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