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Nash, Delisle, Cond. 3rd Rnd to Rangers for Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon, 1st Rnd

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07-23-2012, 03:00 PM
  #251
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I really hope Howson reveals the extent that Nash's NTC clause affected trade discussions.

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07-23-2012, 03:00 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Aucoin3 View Post
Islander fan here and I'm happier to see Dubinsky leave the Rangers than I am upset to see Nash join the Rangers. I have followed Nash closely for years and I think he is just as overrated as Brad Richards. The guy only had 30 goals last year. You will get more than 30 goals from the combination of Dubinsky and Anisimov. Before last season Dubinsky was an absolute untouchable with that team. Luckily the Rangers have no loyalty and after one off year were ready to dump the guy.

The season before last Dubinsky had 24 goals and 30 assists for 54 points. Last season Nash had 30 goals and 29 assists for 59 points. Hell the same year Dubinsky had 54 points Nash only put together 66 points. Throw in Anisimov who is sweet on the penalty kill (one of the Rangers strong suites last year), Erixon who never got a chance with the Rangers and a 1st round pick, not too bad.

I understand you guys wanted a flashy name but I dont think the Blue Jackets will be any worse off after this deal and I actually think the Rangers may be worse. Nash will not get 40 goals for the Rangers.
Nash did those points with pretty much no other stars with him. I wouldnt be too excited for the prospects of going against a Nash-Richards-Gaborik line.

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07-23-2012, 03:01 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
I really hope Howson reveals the extent that Nash's NTC clause affected trade discussions.
I would feel better if Howson came out and blasted Nash for handling this trade like a child.

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07-23-2012, 03:02 PM
  #254
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Any of the other guys also on twitter?
Don't think Anisimov has twitter. Erixon probably not either.

The first round pick however......

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07-23-2012, 03:02 PM
  #255
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Good thing you dont have to score goals to win. Ohh, wait
This trade lost us 4 whole goals based on last season's output for all players. Use the numbers from two years ago, and we're up ten...

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07-23-2012, 03:02 PM
  #256
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Hey guys, I posted this in the trade thread on the trade boards.

Quote:
Honestly, Howson could have gotten a better return, but the return isn't as "pathetic" as some would think.

Anisimov, a young sniping (no pun intended) top 6 center, can create plays and add speed to the Jackets lineup. He's still young, I don't think his ceiling is 18 goal, 40+ point seasons.

Dubinsky, a young two way forward, had a down year, but is a gritty guy who can add 20+ goals, 40+ points and he will have a chance to expand his role on the Blue Jackets.

Tim Erixon is a nice defensive prospect, former 1st round pick, adds to the Blue Jackets solid defensive depth and could be used as a trade piece in the future.

And the 1st round pick really needs no explanation. It adds to the 2 CBJ already has.

In: Bobrovsky, Foligno, Murray(?), Aucoin, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Erixon

Out: Sanford, Huselius, Martinek, Nash, Lebda, etc.
Howson said he wanted 2 NHL forwards in return since the Blue Jackets already have a quality blue line. You got 2 young forwards in Dubinsky and Anisimov. They have room to improve, they haven't reached their full potential.

Seriously, don't listen to people on the main boards, HF is all about "what have you done for me lately", they look at the stats of Dubsinky and Anisimov and see 10 and 18 goals and think that's their ceiling.

You guys have 3 1st round picks in next year's draft. Howson is hiring a new scouting staff.

The Blue Jackets are rebuilding, they added youth (Murray, Erixon, Foligno, Anisimov, Dubinsky) and 3 first round picks.

I like the return the Jackets got for Nash, I think it will help them in the future as, like I said before, don't think these players have reached their full potenital.

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07-23-2012, 03:03 PM
  #257
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Somebody hide the Gatorade coolers!



Last edited by leesmith: 07-23-2012 at 03:14 PM.
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07-23-2012, 03:04 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by ClevelandJacketFan View Post
I would feel better if Howson came out and blasted Nash for handling this trade like a child.
Please. It's Howson's total incompetence when it comes to team building that put us in this situation. He was never able to surround Nash with any talent. His last ditch effort with Jeff Carter this past season blew up in his face. Now Howson gets a pathetic return for the only true top line talent to ever play in Columbus and we want to see Howson throwing stones?

Give me a break. It's absolutely insulting that this buffoon has a job when you could pick any unemployed person in Columbus to replace him and expect equal or better performance with a lower salary to boot.

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07-23-2012, 03:04 PM
  #259
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A call for calm

Although it will take a little while to process today's trade, I only ask for calmer heads to prevail.

I can only state the following facts:
1) We don't know what other teams were offering, whether today, at the draft, and at the trade deadline. We likely will never know.

2) We don't know whether CBA negotiations, or the probability of what a new CBA will look like, impacted trade talks at all.

3) We don't know if there's another deal right around the corner. Remember that there was shock when Zherdev was abruptly traded, and an hour later the Huselius signing was announced. There's a chance that there's a UFA signing to come.

4) We don't know if Erixon is being shopped, if a secondary deal was already agreed to upon being able to get Anisimov, or anything else. There's probably a lot behind the scenes that's still going strong as we speak.

With this in mind, I'm suggesting/recommending calm for now. Let's see what the next hours and days hold before going bonkers.

(The only people who shouldn't be calm are the mods. Have at the troublemakers with a heavy hammer!)

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07-23-2012, 03:04 PM
  #260
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I can't wait for 2016/7 when all these firsts start contributing. The longest of cons.

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07-23-2012, 03:05 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by psycloud View Post
To what end? Does doing this trade five months ago without exploring options and hoping to extrapolate a little more help the team in some way? If the deal had been made at the trade deadline, I imagine the complaint would be that he didn't take long enough to look around.
Deal should have been done at draft of this was it. Take pick THIS year. Give yourself whole UFA period to make other moves instead of now being at end of UFA period. Etc. Many reasons to do this at draft when Nash's value was set.

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07-23-2012, 03:05 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by ClevelandJacketFan View Post
I would feel better if Howson came out and blasted Nash for handling this trade like a child.
I wouldn't. I'd prefer he'd have a little class, rather than make a bunch of excuses.

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07-23-2012, 03:07 PM
  #263
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Wouldnt this just be more perfect if Dubi Anisimov and Erixon all pulled Jeff Carters....its what Im expecting. Better make a good package to ANA for Bobby Ryan because we wont score more than 2 goals a game next year.

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07-23-2012, 03:07 PM
  #264
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Any scouting report on Steven Delisle?
Probably be Top 4 D-man now he's out of CBJ system.

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**** that. I hope the rangers and the kings both implode and the Jackets get 3 top ten picks.
Yes...but CBJ still would lose the draft lottery.

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07-23-2012, 03:07 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Deal should have been done at draft of this was it. Take pick THIS year. Give yourself whole UFA period to make other moves instead of now being at end of UFA period. Etc. Many reasons to do this at draft when Nash's value was set.
I don't claim to know much about it, but I'm under the impression that next year's draft class is expected to be a little better overall, no? And the Rangers at the time of the draft were locked into the 28th overall pick. Sure, it could slip two positions, but it could also gain a few spots if the Rangers don't have a great year. I fail to see how we're hurt.

Edit: As the UFA period goes, I don't think we were significantly less active in it because of the Nash thing. It's not been a massive UFA period by any stretch of the imagination, unless you're suggesting that we could have gotten in on Parise and Suter.

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07-23-2012, 03:08 PM
  #266
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Somebody hide the Gatorade coolers!

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07-23-2012, 03:08 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Hey guys, I posted this in the trade thread on the trade boards....
We share a lot of the same thoughts on this trade, which means I think you've made an excellent contribution to this thread

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07-23-2012, 03:08 PM
  #268
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i know its extreme but id be happy with howson shipping something out for bobby ryan. maybe nash wouldnt go there but maybe the pieces gmsh got for him can get ryan, him and jj would atleast show up every night...

if they keep everyone, im not sure how these lines will shape out. trade seems pretty neutral right now. nothing special but nothing too too bad considering we were in a corner.

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07-23-2012, 03:08 PM
  #269
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While they may not have been the apple's of your eye's, I think you guys are going to enjoy watching both Dubinsky and Anisimov play for the Blue Jackets.

Both are solid at both ends of the rink and I would expect that both combined will outscore nash over the next 6 years or however long each franchise holds the respective players.

I really believe that Dubinsky will get back to his 20+ goals and 25+ assists (45-50+ point totals)

good luck.

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07-23-2012, 03:08 PM
  #270
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Yes...but CBJ still would lose the draft lottery.
That goes without saying. They lose everything else.

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07-23-2012, 03:09 PM
  #271
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Please. It's Howson's total incompetence when it comes to team building that put us in this situation. He was never able to surround Nash with any talent. His last ditch effort with Jeff Carter this past season blew up in his face. Now Howson gets a pathetic return for the only true top line talent to ever play in Columbus and we want to see Howson throwing stones?

Give me a break. It's absolutely insulting that this buffoon has a job when you could pick any unemployed person in Columbus to replace him and expect equal or better performance with a lower salary to boot.
Exactly. Ownership wants us to believe that with all the minor league GMs, former NHL GMs, and current NHL assistant GMs out there, that NONE of them are better than Scott Howson?!?

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07-23-2012, 03:09 PM
  #272
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Prospal - Dubinsky -Foligno
Umberger -Johansen- Brassard
Letestu- Anisimov - Dorsett
Atkinson- Mackenzie - Boll
Calvert
Gillies

J Johnson- Wisniewski
Nikitin- Tyutin
Moore -Auccoin
Murray
Erixon

Bobrovsky
Mason

Not sure what to think...

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07-23-2012, 03:09 PM
  #273
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but we got fleeced. We got crap back for our best player in history. Picture trading Sakic for Sean Avery.
To be fair, Nash has a lot of road ahead of him before he gets put in the same sentence as Sakic, and both of Dubinsky and Anisimov would have to stall and regress to get into Avery territory.

Objectively, Columbus gave up a 60ish point player who is good if not great defensively. Imagine whatever value you think is fair. Then subtract for the fact that

1. This player is overpaid. You need to find a trading partner who can accomodate his caphit (not that hard) as well as one who will be willing to move valuable assets to acquire him. This complicates matters a bit. It stands to reason that the teams with more valuable assets would be closer to the cap (if we agree that salary roughly correlates to skill and value.) So, what we end up with is most teams falling into one of two camps. The first group is one of teams who have the capspace, but not the expendable assets to acquire Nash, and the second group being teams that have the assets but not the cap space. I think it's fair to say that this diminishes the player's value in practice.

2. This player (allegedly or actually) wants out. More importantly, this is public perception. It doesn't seem fair, but the reality is that once a player expresses dissatisfaction in their current team, value plummets. Other GMs know there's tension, and the trading GM will be pressured to make a move. A great example would be Heatley. Heatley went public with his trade request, and Ottawa was pushed into a move. The fans certainly didn't want him there, which puts a bit of a clock on any trades. The GM of a player with a (public) trade request can't play the long game and wait until a potential partner cracks. The player has forced the organization to show their hand, and the result is a raking over the coals from whoever they trade with. With this also in mind, I'd say Nash's value would take another dip. This was all complicated by:

3. This player could and did dictate where he would go. A NTC isn't even necessary, a simple public statement saying "I'll only report to teams X, Y, and Z" instantly gives those three teams a boost in leverage. (Not that this happened here, though.) If a player controls his destiny, value is going to fall even more. Team X is going to lowball your team, because they only have to beat Y and Z, the target player won't go anywhere else. The field of competition has been narrowed from 28 to 2, without a misstep necessary from the team. Again, look at Heatley. After he nixed the deal to Edmonton, San Jose offered a serious downgrade at LW (Michalek) and a Cheechoo who was on his way out the door already to settle the difference between them. It sucks, but it's how these situations play out.

All of these factors played into New York's favor. With that qualification, you didn't get that raw of a deal (from New York, at least.) Can anyone point out a similar situation where a player with so much hindering the trade, returned an objectively good package?

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07-23-2012, 03:10 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Shelley#45 View Post
i know its extreme but id be happy with howson shipping something out for bobby ryan. maybe nash wouldnt go there but maybe the pieces gmsh got for him can get ryan, him and jj would atleast show up every night...

if they keep everyone, im not sure how these lines will shape out. trade seems pretty neutral right now. nothing special but nothing too too bad considering we were in a corner.
Nothing extreme about it. We have a glut of centers and defensive prospects and a shortage of top six right wingers. Bring it on!

Letestu, Erixon, Ruth, New York's first for Ryan?

Foligno/Prospal - Brassard - Ryan
Umberger - Johansen - Dubinsky
Prospal/Foligno - Anisimov - Dorsett
Boll - MacKenzie - Gilles
Atkinson to start season in Springfield.

I really like what Letestu brings to the team, but he's a UFA after this season.


Last edited by leesmith: 07-23-2012 at 03:23 PM.
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07-23-2012, 03:11 PM
  #275
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Rangers fan here. I think this is a great deal for you guys. I'd be surprised if, given how much they'll play out there, Dubinsky and Anisimov don't outscore Nash by 20-30 points. Granted they had Callahan, but when the two of them were called upon to be our go to players two years ago, they combined for just under 100 points.

Also, Dubinsky is much more comfortable playing LW and Anisimov is more comfortable playing center. However ,iIf they're on the same line, they work great when Dubinsky takes the faceoffs and they switch roles after the draw.

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