Very Good deal. Rangers kept Stepan, Hagelin and Miller but gave up Erixon.
Having Boyle as 3C is not good news, but hopefully this gets addressed going forward.
Overall, this has to be scored as a win for the Sather short, medium or long term. He got the player he wanted at a price he wanted, no matter what happens down the road.
How? McIlrath is close to being ready, behind him we have Skjei and I think Calle Andersson will surprise a lot of people.
You act like it cripples us.
As far as forwards go, our 4th line is MUCH weaker. 3rd line, meh, especially when you consider Hagelin is most likely our full time 3rd line LW.
I do? Is that really how you read that?
The 4th line is stronger than last year, not weaker. It's the 3rd line that was weak last year and will continue to be weak this year unless we do something about it. But before this trade, we had 11 forwards who would have slotted into roles suited to their abilities, with an exception of 3rd line RW. Now we have 10, the exceptions being 3rd line RW and 3rd line C. That's weaker. I know our top 6 looks pretty damn good right now, and I'm happy about that. But I don't care how many goals they score, I want wins. I'm not yet convinced a more top heavy lineup is better at getting them than what we had.
And how exactly do a player unlikely to make the roster this year and 2 players unlikely to make the roster in the next three years make it so our defensive depth isn't weakened? I'm talking about for this coming season, not seasons down the road.
Sather can make moves to help those situations out. I'm sure we'll be fine. I just don't consider this trade much of a win.
This may be the ripoff job of the decade.
Anybody believes that Columbus got 20 cents on the dollar are deluded.
Dubi and Artem are deadline tradebait next season.
The 4th line is stronger than last year, not weaker. It's the 3rd line that was weak last year and will continue to be weak this year unless we do something about it. But before this trade, we had 11 forwards who would have slotted into roles suited to their abilities, with an exception of 3rd line RW. Now we have 10, the exceptions being 3rd line RW and 3rd line C. That's weaker. I know our top 6 looks pretty damn good right now, and I'm happy about that. But I don't care how many goals they score, I want wins. I'm not yet convinced a more top heavy lineup is better at getting them than what we had.
And how exactly do a player unlikely to make the roster this year and 2 players unlikely to make the roster in the next three years make it so our defensive depth isn't weakened? I'm talking about for this coming season, not seasons down the road.
Sather can make moves to help those situations out. I'm sure we'll be fine. I just don't consider this trade much of a win.
What good would Erixon be rotting away playing 7 minutes a game with Stu Bickel on the 3rd pairing? Nothing against Stu, I like him as a player, but Torts was apprehensive to use him at many times, not just in the playoffs. Ergo Erixon's playing time will be very very limited.
Also, how is moving Hagelin from the 1st line to the 3rd line such a downgrade? Dubinsky played like dog**** last year so I don't think Hagelin will be any worse. Yeah, Boyle is a downgrade from Anisimov offensively but its a wash or slight upgrade defensively. Prust has never scored as many points as Pyatt has. What we lose in Prust's defensive play, we gain in Boyles defensive play, and what we lose from Anisimovs offense, we gain from Pyatts offense.
Agree to disagree but I believe the 3rd line will at worst be a wash from last year. Its the 4th line that concerns me. Halpern is old, Rupp is getting there (although I think he has more to offer than showed last year with his injury) and Asham is getting up there in age as well. We have an O L D, slow, 0 offense, but tough 4th line. I think losing Mitchell on the 4th hurts a bit, especially replacing him with Asham.
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I feel like this is such an appropriate quote for these boards...
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience"-Mark Twain
When you factor in the fact that Nash has a cap hit of nearly 8M dollars for 6 more years, yes, this was a fair deal. And you really can't evaluate it now...let's see where all the parties involved are in 3 years.
In three years we will more than likely have all those three players, and despite Nash's contract..they will only be coming into money if they perform at their peak. I stand by my statement. Market value of players is not even close to the biggest issue in this trade.
edit: I don't wanna sound like an arrogant jackass, it's about the value of players kept rather than his contract on the books.
What good would Erixon be rotting away playing 7 minutes a game with Stu Bickel on the 3rd pairing? Nothing against Stu, I like him as a player, but Torts was apprehensive to use him at many times, not just in the playoffs. Ergo Erixon's playing time will be very very limited.
Also, how is moving Hagelin from the 1st line to the 3rd line such a downgrade? Dubinsky played like dog**** last year so I don't think Hagelin will be any worse. Yeah, Boyle is a downgrade from Anisimov offensively but its a wash or slight upgrade defensively. Prust has never scored as many points as Pyatt has. What we lose in Prust's defensive play, we gain in Boyles defensive play, and what we lose from Anisimovs offense, we gain from Pyatts offense.
Agree to disagree but I believe the 3rd line will at worst be a wash from last year. Its the 4th line that concerns me. Halpern is old, Rupp is getting there (although I think he has more to offer than showed last year with his injury) and Asham is getting up there in age as well. We have an O L D, slow, 0 offense, but tough 4th line. I think losing Mitchell on the 4th hurts a bit, especially replacing him with Asham.
Pyatt's offense? Erixon getting 7 minutes a night? Boyle's defensive play replacing Prust's?
Yeah, agree to disagree. We clearly don't think the game remotely the same way.
When you factor in the fact that Nash has a cap hit of nearly 8M dollars for 6 more years, yes, this was a fair deal. And you really can't evaluate it now...let's see where all the parties involved are in 3 years.
Agreed, I think this trade is a lot closer to being a fair deal than the "steal" that some are proclaiming it to be. I would consider this trade a steal if Nash lives up to his contract and scores at least 40 goals each season, resulting in multiple cups, while Dubinsky, Anisimov, and Erixon bomb in Columbus, but obviously that remains to be seen.
And saying it's a steal is really selling Dubi, Arty, and Erixon short. Dubi has long been undervalued by some Rangers fan so it's not surprising... people act like as if he's some sort of albatross but then Torts says today that teams always asked about him, he's a player that other GMs want. Anisimov when utilized at center can be a solid two-way 2nd-3rd line tweener, and Erixon has the potential to be a top 4 defenseman. Dubi and Anisimov were solid homegrown Rangers, it's not as if Nash was traded for Wolski, Christensen, Mitchell, etc.
Agreed, I think this trade is a lot closer to being a fair deal than the "steal" that some are proclaiming it to be. I would consider this trade a steal if Nash lives up to his contract and scores at least 40 goals each season, resulting in multiple cups, while Dubinsky, Anisimov, and Erixon bomb in Columbus, but obviously that remains to be seen.
And saying it's a steal is really selling Dubi, Arty, and Erixon short. Dubi has long been undervalued by some Rangers fan so it's not surprising... people act like as if he's some sort of albatross but then Torts says today that teams always asked about him, he's a player that other GMs want. Anisimov when utilized at center can be a solid two-way 2nd-3rd line tweener, and Erixon has the potential to be a top 4 defenseman. Dubi and Anisimov were solid homegrown Rangers, it's not as if Nash was traded for Wolski, Christensen, Mitchell, etc.
Nash has never had a cup. He's not "THE captain" If he helps us win one and be a competitive/Eastern Finals team for the next 5 years. THAT'S a win.
Nash has never had a cup. He's not "THE captain" If he helps us win one and be a competitive/Eastern Finals team for the next 5 years. THAT'S a win.
I don't really see how that's relevant to whether or not the trade is a steal for us.
Even if we win a cup with Nash, it may not be a steal of a trade if Dubi, Anisimov, and Erixon all succeed in Columbus. Then it would be considered an even trade, a fair deal for both parties.
Very Good deal. Rangers kept Stepan, Hagelin and Miller but gave up Erixon. Having Boyle as 3C is not good news, but hopefully this gets addressed going forward.
Overall, this has to be scored as a win for the Sather short, medium or long term. He got the player he wanted at a price he wanted, no matter what happens down the road.
What kind of player are you expecting to assume the 3rd line center role? Traditionally this is a checking line used to play against the opponents top line. I think Boyle can fill that role. This isn't the Oilers of the 80s. 3rd line centers don't score 25-30 goals.
I don't really see how that's relevant to whether or not the trade is a steal for us.
Even if we win a cup with Nash, it may not be a steal of a trade if Dubi, Anisimov, and Erixon all succeed in Columbus. Then it would be considered an even trade, a fair deal for both parties.
Right. We think too much about winners and losers when it comes to these things. Every once in a while, there's a deal with a clear cut winner (think Messier for Rice, DeBrusk, etc). Most of the time, it's pretty even aside from rental trades.
What kind of player are you expecting to assume the 3rd line center role? Traditionally this is a checking line used to play against the opponents top line. I think Boyle can fill that role. This isn't the Oilers of the 80s. 3rd line centers don't score 25-30 goals.
By traditionally, apparently you mean 10 years ago. Teams don't match up forward lines against forward lines nearly as much as they used to. Instead, they match defensive pairs against forward lines.
Nash is an incredible talent. Over the next 5 years, he will average 35 goals and 45 assists for you guys, and wait until you see how smooth, quick and big he is. He has learned to do things that many never have to learn (play teams 1 on 5, often). Protects the puck. Amazing. I think he will be extraordinary for you guys.
He is also a guy that could, if asked, score 20 and have 70 assists. He is an incredible passer with great vision and anticipation. NOTE, he passes the puck 125 - 140%% harder than most players, so it will take more time than you think for the team to learn this.
One flaw he has is that he gets ticked off and does subtle stupid things that are way off his game. You'll see it about 8 times a year that someone will do something to him a bit out of line, and Nash will spend the rest of the shift going way out of his way to retaliate. Or the rest of the period.
There are a couple of Western Conference teams that realize this (Nashville for one).
I think this was a result of just getting beat to death many times - - teams would often play him so tight because he was all we had. After a while, that wears on you I am sure.
...but if he is just "one of the best" on the team, maybe he will be fine.
I don't really see how that's relevant to whether or not the trade is a steal for us.
Even if we win a cup with Nash, it may not be a steal of a trade if Dubi, Anisimov, and Erixon all succeed in Columbus. Then it would be considered an even trade, a fair deal for both parties.
How is a guy like Dubinsky going to succeed? I love the guy...I do, but he's been here for 7 years with three different coaches, (edit 6 years, sorry) and has only shown sparks of greatness. His head is not screwed on straight.
Anisimov has been inconsistent at best. And if Erixon does well? Then We gave up a top defensive prospect for one of the elite goal scorers in the league. The Blue Jackets already have a decent defensive outlook. Not like they'd be surprised if Erixon winds up playing well.
Kreider
Stepan
MDZ
Anisimov
Erixon
Dubinsky
All those guys (plus more) were mentioned in this trade at some point. Which three would you rather keep? Not only that, how much more is Kreider worth if he plays as well as he's supposed to?
Stranger things have happened folks. I'm simply saying that at the very present moment with the outlook for the players involved/supposed to be involved...the scales have tipped much more favorably in our favor.
I have to say that I always expected Nash to become a Ranger. It was what might be going back to Columbus that worried me. Based on my assumption that it was a waiting game, I was happy to see it take this long. Sure enough, I am okay with assets traded. I wasn't really prepared to see the 1st rounder as part of it, but maybe I was just naive. To be honest, I never did expect Dubinsky to be wearing a Rangers uniform this coming season.
It is still unknown what the new CBA has to say about things. Who knows what the new Cap will be, and what contingincies will be for those over the new upper limit (if it is lower) will be.
I guess there are lots of teams in worse straits than NYR in that regard.
I like Nash. Always have. He opens up the ice wherever he goes. I'm just crossing my fingers with confidence and looking forward to more game to game excitement. This guy might really be quite the catalyst.
If Gaborik comes back healthy, and this is a big if with MG, than the Rangers are the team to beat in the East. If not.......
A lot of over achieving last year and Krieder will be playing a lot more games. As most say time will tell, to me the whole thing hinges on Gaborik.
Not that big of an if - Sather said today that his recovery is going just fine and he's always recovered well despite being hurt quite a bit in the past.
Kreider will play more games for sure, but he'll also have an offseason to train for NHL hockey as opposed to jumping in the fire after the NCAA season and he'll have a training camp with the team. Plus, he's a young guy in great shape, I'm not worried about the schedule being too much for him.
as a bruins fan browsing to see what you guys thoguht of the trade. absolutely love it if im a rangers fan. just pissed off because i think the bruins could have made a better deal. they said it was seguin or hamilton or it didnt happend and then they make that deal. boggles my mind. the east just got alot better. especially if weber goes to philly snd doan comes to NYR. for first ime in a while we can say watch out penguins
as a bruins fan browsing to see what you guys thoguht of the trade. absolutely love it if im a rangers fan. just pissed off because i think the bruins could have made a better deal. they said it was seguin or hamilton or it didnt happend and then they make that deal. boggles my mind. the east just got alot better. especially if weber goes to philly snd doan comes to NYR. for first ime in a while we can say watch out penguins
From a Bruins standpoint, I still don't trade Seguin for Nash, let alone add an amazing D prospect. Just wait until Seguin develops into a top 10 center in the league.
How can you not like the trade. It solidifies the 1st line, bumps players back down a notch into their rightful lines, gives the NYR's an option to create two solid lines by splitting up Gaborik and Nash to separate lines, maybe Richie with Kreider and Nash, Step with hags and Gabby. Maybe even add a vet like Doan for a couple of years at 5M to help Kreider and Hags grow into those top lines instead of being placed there.
