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Luongo XXV - *Important Mod Warning #15*

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07-24-2012, 06:58 PM
  #201
Andy Dufresne
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
So Gillis has all the leverage and therefore can demand whatever he wants, correct? Well, you're semi right in that he doesn't have to accept anything he doesn't want to.

But here's where it gets tricky:

1. Keeping Luongo is counter-productive, especially when so many factors are involved (Cap space, locker room environment, reputation). There really isn't any strategic advantage in keeping him. All he is doing is hoping that one of those few teams that Luongo is willing to go to caves (Long shot).

Luongo's value is likely at its highest right now.
Couldn't disagree more. Every team in the league gets consistent goaltending in July. October-March? Not so much, every year there's more than 1 team who's fans (and management if they're not clueless) asking themselves the question: Where would we be in the standings if our goalies didn't blow?

GM's, unlike fans, can also ask themselves the additional question: Will I still have a job in July if we miss the playoffs this year?

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07-24-2012, 07:00 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
In HF Boards anything that doesn't happen by July means that it's a stale deal. Weber just got locked up. Nash just got traded. Semin is still out there as is Luongo and maybe Bobby Ryan.
Obviously neither you nor I know what offers were made or what Gillis asked for. A trade for a player with acomplex contract like Luongo takes time. Anyone who thought that this would be done quickly was clealry mistaken. I'd expect both sides to change their positions as the season approaches. Again, this is how trades get done.
Exactly.

HFboards thought Weber was a Flyer, because Poile didn't insta-match.

Due dilligence is happening all over the place, things change fast, and we aren't even in August yet.

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Old
07-24-2012, 07:11 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
On HF Boards anything that doesn't happen by July means that it's a stale deal.
Weber just got locked up. Nash just got traded. Semin is still out there as is Luongo and maybe Bobby Ryan.
Obviously neither you nor I know what offers were made or what Gillis asked for. A trade for a player with a complex, lengthy contract like Luongo takes time. Anyone who thought that this would be done quickly was clearly mistaken. I'd expect both sides to change their positions as the season approaches. Again, this is how trades get done. Neither side has much oncentove to make a move yet but as the season approaches and teams look at their weakness in net and Gillis looks at the downside of having two starters then I'm sure both sides will lower their demands.
Alright, you tell me then how long Gillis can sit on Luongo? Training camp? Trade deadline? July 1st 2013?

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Originally Posted by M A K A V E L I View Post
This is what an albatross looks like.



Have you been paying attention to the stupid money GM's have been throwing around lately? Luongo is on a very good contract and he said he won't be playing it out.
That albatross has a wing span the size of Luongo's contract!

I have definitely been paying attention. Luongo signed a 12 year. Kovalchuk a 17 year, Weber a 14 year, Suter & Parise, 13 years. Luongo's contract is definitely comparable to those and ranks right along side them. No team in the league is dumb enough to consider taking a goaltender who's age is historically past the prime for another decade. That is unless the price is right.

If Luongo had another 3 years or so left then yeah you got yourselves a good value goaltender, even if his cap hit was higher.

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07-24-2012, 07:19 PM
  #204
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I guess we will all wait and see...even if the canucks don't get a ton back for loungo, they are definately still better then a lot of other teams at this point. Namely, a lot of teams of fans posting here.

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07-24-2012, 07:29 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Teams that have a clear starter and clear backup are not going to trade for Luongo. A team that doesn't want to trade for Luongo now because they might have a young guy ready in 2 or 3 years is stupid.
See...this i don't get. Tell me what scenario makes more sense if i have a goalie 2 years away, getting a 2 year stopgap or trading core pieces for a 33 year old goalie who will play for at least 6 years?

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07-24-2012, 07:36 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
See...this i don't get. Tell me what scenario makes more sense if i have a goalie 2 years away, getting a 2 year stopgap or trading core pieces for a 33 year old goalie who will play for at least 6 years?
No prospect is a sure thing - this is even more true when discussing goalies. To hinge the future of a franchise on the hope of a goalie would be awful management.

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07-24-2012, 07:38 PM
  #207
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So im assuming everyone in here talking about Luongos contract agrees that Parise, Sutter, Weber all have horrible contracts because they will be 40 and having cap hits over7.7 million right? or do you think they will retire at that point?

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07-24-2012, 07:43 PM
  #208
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So im assuming everyone in here talking about Luongos contract agrees that Parise, Sutter, Weber all have horrible contracts because they will be 40 and having cap hits over7.7 million right? or do you think they will retire at that point?
That's the future, worry about that when it comes. Right now they're 27, not 33. 6 years is a lot in the NHL.

Plus goalies aren't worth as much as a 1st pairing defender or a 1st line forward.

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07-24-2012, 07:50 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Alright, you tell me then how long Gillis can sit on Luongo? Training camp? Trade deadline? July 1st 2013?
Again, you are looking only at one side. Let me throw it back at you. How long can Burke sit on Scrivens/Reimer? Training camp? Certainly not much longer. There do not appear to be any other starting goalies out there who will come at a reasonable price.
You state that Gillis needs to reduce his demands. Again that is one side of the picture. Burke/Bowman also need to increase their offers.

You stated that the fact that a trade hasn't happened shows that Gillis is asking to much. Once again to throw it back at you, if there were a lot of other options out there for those GM's why haven't they moved on one yet? Maybe that proves that there are no other reasonable options and that they are offering too little for Luongo.

There are two sides to these type of deals. You're only looking at one side.

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07-24-2012, 07:54 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by xtra View Post
So im assuming everyone in here talking about Luongos contract agrees that Parise, Sutter, Weber all have horrible contracts because they will be 40 and having cap hits over7.7 million right? or do you think they will retire at that point?
Weber suter and parise are entering their primes. luongo is exiting his. big difference.

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07-24-2012, 07:56 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by rune74 View Post
I guess we will all wait and see...even if the canucks don't get a ton back for loungo, they are definately still better then a lot of other teams at this point. Namely, a lot of teams of fans posting here.
How many playoff games did u last?

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07-24-2012, 07:58 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
You mean IF.
between now and trade deadline. You think there is going to be no interest in a superstar goalie who is proven to dominate the regular season?.

There will be injuries, there will be goalies who badly under-perform, there will be pressure on teams to succeed.

Lets use the leafs for example: Leafs start the season 3-7-2 or 2-8-1. You think the leafs can sell the fans it's going to be okay with reimer or scrivens?. No chance.

A opportunity will open, Don't pull a CBJ and trade a superstar player for quantity not quality. (no i am not saying luongo value is equal to nash's )

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Old
07-24-2012, 08:02 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Again, you are looking only at one side. Let me throw it back at you. How long can Burke sit on Scrivens/Reimer? Training camp? Certainly not much longer. There do not appear to be any other starting goalies out there who will come at a reasonable price.
You state that Gillis needs to reduce his demands. Again that is one side of the picture. Burke/Bowman also need to increase their offers.

You stated that the fact that a trade hasn't happened shows that Gillis is asking to much. Once again to throw it back at you, if there were a lot of other options out there for those GM's why haven't they moved on one yet? Maybe that proves that there are no other reasonable options and that they are offering too little for Luongo.

There are two sides to these type of deals. You're only looking at one side.
You're trying to reverse a situation that isnt reversable. Burke isnt being forced to trade for a goaltender. I'm sure he'd love to have luongo, but he's not gonna lose any sleep if he doesn't get him, especially at the price gillis is demanding.

In his eyes he can roll the dice on his current tandem, and wait until gillis gets sweaty. As it looks now, gillis is the only one attending the luongo ho down and has scared his dancing partners away.

Gillis must trade luongo eventually.

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07-24-2012, 08:08 PM
  #214
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for some reason I think Luongo will end up in columbus. As long as roberto is willing, for a prospect and a 1st

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07-24-2012, 08:12 PM
  #215
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for some reason I think Luongo will end up in columbus. As long as roberto is willing, for a prospect and a 1st
unless the prospects are named Murrey or Johanson and two first--I do not see the vancouver fans being happy with the deal

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07-24-2012, 08:12 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
You're trying to reverse a situation that isnt reversable. Burke isnt being forced to trade for a goaltender. I'm sure he'd love to have luongo, but he's not gonna lose any sleep if he doesn't get him, especially at the price gillis is demanding.

In his eyes he can roll the dice on his current tandem, and wait until gillis gets sweaty. As it looks now, gillis is the only one attending the luongo ho down and has scared his dancing partners away.

Gillis must trade luongo eventually.
Here is where we disagree. Burke cannot roll the dice on his current tandem. He tried that last year and look where he ended up. I've said from the beginning that neither side is in a great bargaining position which is why a deal likely gets done. You claim that Burke can roll with the guys who put him in the draft lottery last year. I see that scenario as even more unlikely than Gillis going with both Luongo and Schneider. I think it's one sided to suggest that the team that missed the playoffs last year and that had weak goaltending is ready to stand pat. Burke is bluffing when he says this.

Gillis is playing this the way he should. As are Burke/Tallon and Bowman. Until the season gets closer there is no incentive on either side to move too much.

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07-24-2012, 08:17 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by xtra View Post
So im assuming everyone in here talking about Luongos contract agrees that Parise, Sutter, Weber all have horrible contracts because they will be 40 and having cap hits over7.7 million right? or do you think they will retire at that point?
They're terrible whether they retire or not!

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07-24-2012, 08:29 PM
  #218
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He suggested more activity could percolate in mid-August. “As you get closer to the season, things begin to pick up as teams see their needs.”

On the market for Luongo, there have been real deals on the table. Gillis hasn’t been motivated to move, though he suggested that could evolve with time.

“We’ve been given solid offers. Nothing we would do today. We’re going to continue the process with the teams that are interested.”

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07-24-2012, 08:32 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
He suggested more activity could percolate in mid-August. “As you get closer to the season, things begin to pick up as teams see their needs.”

On the market for Luongo, there have been real deals on the table. Gillis hasn’t been motivated to move, though he suggested that could evolve with time.

“We’ve been given solid offers. Nothing we would do today. We’re going to continue the process with the teams that are interested.”
I mentioned this earlier. They way he stated it makes me think he is waiting on a couple other dominos to fall to see what package makes the most sense for us.

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07-24-2012, 08:34 PM
  #220
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I mentioned this earlier. They way he stated it makes me think he is waiting on a couple other dominos to fall to see what package makes the most sense for us.
I Doan get it. What dominos could it be?

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07-24-2012, 08:49 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I thought there being only one net was a pretty solid reason. I dunno, I just think having $5.6M or whatever Luongo's cap hit is to play 20 games is pretty stupid. That's like what, $280,000/game back up?

On the flip side I can't really think of any benefits of having 2 #1 goaltenders either. I mean, it's not like Vancouver wouldn't make the playoffs if they only had one starter and come playoff time you usually stick to having one goaltender (Although Vancouver did prove they love to switch it up mid-round).
Luongo (if around a full season) would likely play around 40 games. Splitting them evenly & giving Schneider a little bit of an ease into a starters role of 60 of so games.

Its always good to have another option in net. It is also part of an idea to rest your starter for a long playoff run.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChillyPalmer View Post
That's the future, worry about that when it comes. Right now they're 27, not 33. 6 years is a lot in the NHL.

Plus goalies aren't worth as much as a 1st pairing defender or a 1st line forward.


You can't say its in the future then make a point of their age now

When does it become a factor? 28? 29? or is it just 33?

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07-24-2012, 08:58 PM
  #222
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How many playoff games did u last?
Gee original...you guys what made the playoffs last year so you have a better team? good luck with that.

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07-24-2012, 09:05 PM
  #223
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Here is where we disagree. Burke cannot roll the dice on his current tandem. He tried that last year and look where he ended up. I've said from the beginning that neither side is in a great bargaining position which is why a deal likely gets done. You claim that Burke can roll with the guys who put him in the draft lottery last year. I see that scenario as even more unlikely than Gillis going with both Luongo and Schneider. I think it's one sided to suggest that the team that missed the playoffs last year and that had weak goaltending is ready to stand pat. Burke is bluffing when he says this.

Gillis is playing this the way he should. As are Burke/Tallon and Bowman. Until the season gets closer there is no incentive on either side to move too much.
You do realize that Gus was part of the leafs tandem last year and that Reimer was playing quite well before a gionta head shot?

The tandem of a healthy reimer/scrivens has never been tried, especially for an entire season soooooo I fail to see how this years tandem is the same as last year.

That's like saying lack/Schneider is the same as luongo/Schneider

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07-24-2012, 09:05 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by ChillyPalmer View Post
That's the future, worry about that when it comes. Right now they're 27, not 33. 6 years is a lot in the NHL.

Plus goalies aren't worth as much as a 1st pairing defender or a 1st line forward.
33 for a goalie is not the same as 33 for a skater.

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07-24-2012, 09:08 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
So in your eyes those teams that have shown interest in Luongo are so desperate to get Luongo that they're going to cave into Gillis demands?

That's worked well so far.
Why would it work now? It's the offseason, there's no pressure to get anything done right now.

There's a few teams including Vancouver who are going into next season with question marks as their #1 goalies. If Schneider proves good and one of the other teams' starters falters (i.e. Toronto, Tampa, or Chicago) then you will see more desperation to get things done.

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