Really? You think the organization (and the rest of the fan base) disagrees with me that goaltending was a problem? Considering we never would have gotten as far as we did without our goaltending I think that's laughable.
Maybe we can get a goalie who can score, I don't know, but it's quite clear to anyone who's paid attention to this team, and the playoffs, that our lack of scoring has killed our chances to win the Boston and the LA series.
If Luongo was good enough for us when it counted, he'd still be a Canuck. That's the bottom line, he wouldn't be in the process of being dealt if management didn't truly beleive Schneider is the better option and Luongo was good enough to win when it counted. Of course it wasn't all his fault, it's a team game, but you don't win championships without championship goaltending and Luongo hasn't provided that. But really, enough about Luongo, I can't bear to talk about it anymore.
As a previous poster stated, we can all agree that there needs to be improvments to this lineup if we're thinking about a Cup this year. Just not the horses in the projected 2012-13 line-up.
Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Garrison
Ballard Tanev
Alberts
Schneider Luongo
-Schroeder will begin the year at 2C and then go back to the AHL
-Raymond and Kassian are interchangeable
sigh.
Marginal improvement at best over last year. Forwards are the same/worse. Defense is hopefully improved.
Kesler is due for another mediocre season. If he can't stay healthy this year then I say get some value for him while we still can. Hopefully he is ready to go come playoffs (for the first time ever?).
Should be one of the best teams in the league. If they aren't then fire AV. Best team in the league is NOT playing like garbage from January on, then having a massive choke come playoff time.
We played the Stanley cup champions evenly the last 3 years - would have taken Bost if decent reffing, fewer injuries and/or their dip crap goalie didn't stand on his head - pretty even with LA with Dank in the line up.
Sedin x 2 Burrows
Booth Kes Higgins
Jensen Schroeder Kassian
Lapierre Maholtra Hansen
Ebbet Raymond
I think all 3 of the "rookies" are ready for a shot this year, and from what I have heard Gaunce isn't far away either.
D is pretty obvious, though GMMG was pretty high on Connauton making a real play for a spot.
Luongo/Schneider is the best pairing in the NHL- or we get top 6 winger for Luongo, or we sign Doan, or both.
We won the PT the past 2 years, and if our rookies compete at all, we are going to be a very good team again.
Don't understand the negativity. Us old guys remember 15 consecutive losing seasons ... you young pups are spoiled.
really? You think they played LA hard? Really?
I mean seriously? You aren't just joking here?
and the presidents trophy last year is honestly just a monument to how badly they choked in the playoffs.
Now I don't speak for the fansbase (and neither do you) but I would say there is a large portion of Canucks' fans that are supportive of Luongo (myself included). This group, outside of Y2K, just isn't as vocal.
D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Doan
Higgins - Schroeder - Hansen
Raymond/Malhotra - Lapierre - Kassian
Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev
Schneider
Lack
Sign Doan 3yrs 14mil (Front-loaded)
Trade Luongo + 2nd to Panthers for Bjugstad + 1st + capdump
Edit: By the way I'm a massive Jensen supporter and have been since before we drafted him, but I don't think he'll make the team, playing in Sweden will be better for him.
Now I don't speak for the fansbase (and neither do you) but I would say there is a large portion of Canucks' fans that are supportive of Luongo (myself included). This group, outside of Y2K, just isn't as vocal.
I'll side with y2k and be just as vocal as the other side of the argument if I believe he's being treated unfairly, anyone who visited the summer threads last year about the 2011 playoffs I think would vouch for that.
y2k is quite right, really. I don't think goaltending has ever been a major problem. There has been games where I felt Luongo has played extremely poorly (game 6 vs Chicago, a lot of the 2010 playoffs, game 4 and 5 of the Chicago series that year, and game 6 vs Boston) even then, our defense was pure and utter crap in a lot of those games. It got overrated because of it's ability to move the puck, but gap control and positioning were two glaring weaknesses that have concerned me.
I'm not as quick as some to shift the blame solely to the Sedins...but it's pretty clear to me that the offensive contributions in certain playoff series have been quite underwhelming. Fun fact time: In the last 12 playoff games, Canucks skaters have combined for 16 goals in those games. Good for 1.33 goals/game or pro-rated over an entire regular season about 109 goals.
Is that trade supposed to happen in real life or NHL 13?
The worst contract they want to dump they can, and I'd honestly trade Luongo and the 2nd straight up for Bjugstad but I figured that'd get me some heat from you guys, guess you just can't please.
The reason for the 2nd is that I am not willing to give up a 1st in the 2013 draft, it's ridiculously deep and we could net guys in the late first in ways similar to the 2003 draft.
y2k is quite right, really. I don't think goaltending has ever been a major problem. There has been games where I felt Luongo has played extremely poorly (game 6 vs Chicago, a lot of the 2010 playoffs, game 4 and 5 of the Chicago series that year, and game 6 vs Boston) even then, our defense was pure and utter crap in a lot of those games. It got overrated because of it's ability to move the puck, but gap control and positioning were two glaring weaknesses that have concerned me.
Are we the only team in history to be poor defensively, terrible offensively and have sustained success? If this were really the case, wouldn't it be easier to trade Luongo?
Fun fact;
The Canucks have played the best defensive team in the NHL their last 12 playoff games.
It's not a great looking team at this point, but people who think we're completely screwed and that there's NO way this team can compete with the players they have/crying that they're the softest team in the league now sure seem to be forgetting that we had pretty similar personnel when we made the cup run (if anything, less depth back then).
Sedin - Sedin - Burrows vs. Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Raymond - Kesler - Samuelsson vs. Raymond - Kesler - Booth
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen vs. Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Torres - Malhotra - Glass vs. Weise - Malhotra - Kassian
Hamhuis - Bieksa vs. Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Ehrhoff vs. Edler - Garrison
Ballard - Salo vs. Ballard - Tanev
Luongo vs. Schneider
Schneider vs. Lack
The team isn't going to go far if they play anything like they did last year, but the personnel isn't too far off.
It's pretty clear that what the most important thing this team needs to do is play better.
That said, I'm totally crossing my fingers for at least something that looks as good as
Sedin - Sedin - Burrows Booth - Kesler - Doan Higgins - Schroeder/Malhotra - Hansen Raymond/Malhotra - Lapierre - Kassian (call Raymond soft all you want, but I really like the look of this)
Weise, Pinizotto
Are we the only team in history to be poor defensively, terrible offensively and have sustained success? If this were really the case, wouldn't it be easier to trade Luongo?
They are ridiculously vocal, IMO. It seems like they're moving into acceptance-mode now that it's pretty clear who we're going forward with.
As annoying as the guys who flat out trash Luongo are, the supporters have been every bit as obnoxious, IMO.
Now I don't speak for the fansbase (and neither do you) but I would say there is a large portion of Canucks' fans that are supportive of Luongo (myself included). This group, outside of Y2K, just isn't as vocal.
I am included in this group. Y2K is a tremendous poster iMO and i respect him for always stating his opinion and backing it up with facts.
This hockey club has a big glaring hole in the top 6, a hole that if filled properly will give us a great shot at winning a cup. Trading Schneider will fill that hole with a better player than trading luongo will. Luongo will provide goaltending that can win us a cup. trading Schneider is the move to make IMO.
I don't feel tanev is physically ready for the NHL except in a depth role, he was bullied and pushed around like a child by the Kings and is just way too weak. Ballard plays his best with Tanev though and they move the puck and skate well and compliment each other. If we're going to keep Ballard we kind of have to pair him with Tanev.
It's not a great looking team at this point, but people who think we're completely screwed and that there's NO way this team can compete with the players they have/crying that they're the softest team in the league now sure seem to be forgetting that we had pretty similar personnel when we made the cup run (if anything, less depth back then).
Sedin - Sedin - Burrows vs. Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Raymond - Kesler - Samuelsson vs. Raymond - Kesler - Booth
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen vs. Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Torres - Malhotra - Glass vs. Weise - Malhotra - Kassian
Hamhuis - Bieksa vs. Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Ehrhoff vs. Edler - Garrison
Ballard - Salo vs. Ballard - Tanev
Luongo vs. Schneider
Schneider vs. Lack
The team isn't going to go far if they play anything like they did last year, but the personnel isn't too far off.
It's pretty clear that what the most important thing this team needs to do is play better.
You can't just compare lines like Sedin, Sedin, Burrows of 2011 to the one of last season and this one coming up. Players regress or breakout, hence no similar line at different points in time can truly be the same. Until the Sedins prove otherwise, the 2011 version of them was superior to where they're at now.
Fans were doing the same thing heading up the playoffs vs the Kings, arguing that the team was just as good, if not better than the 2011 version.
I don't think we'll see a team as good as that again with this current core. That was the apex of the curve and now they're on a descent. Whether or not they can still win a cup remains to be seen as other teams around the league change as well.
That team was a powerhouse (despite what some people on the general board would have you believe) and if it weren't for the rash of injuries heading into the finals, they would've won the cup. They were that much better than everyone else the entire year.
Wouldn't mind seeing Kassian with the twins once Kesler is healthy. If they can turn Anson Carter into a 35 goal scorer then Kassian should be able to pot 20-25 pretty easily.
Sedin Sedin Kassian
Booth Kesler Burrows
Higgins Lapierre Hansen
plug Schroeder Raymond (haven't seen enough of Volpatti, Pinizzotto or Ebbett but put in the fastest to go with the other 2)
If Kassian can score 20-25 I like the top three lines. People are sceptical of Max but hes still pretty young and I think he is capable of being a good 3C
I don't feel tanev is physically ready for the NHL except in a depth role, he was bullied and pushed around like a child by the Kings and is just way too weak. Ballard plays his best with Tanev though and they move the puck and skate well and compliment each other. If we're going to keep Ballard we kind of have to pair him with Tanev.
Ballard should be a number 7 guy that plays only 45 to 50 games a year. While I like some of Tanevs skill set, there is something that I do not like and I would like to have another D-man there in case either one stumbles and I think one will be out whipping boy very quickly
D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Doan
Higgins - Schroeder - Hansen
Raymond/Malhotra - Lapierre - Kassian
Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev
Schneider
Lack
Sign Doan 3yrs 14mil (Front-loaded)
Trade Luongo + 2nd to Panthers for Bjugstad + 1st + capdump
Edit: By the way I'm a massive Jensen supporter and have been since before we drafted him, but I don't think he'll make the team, playing in Sweden will be better for him.
Ballard should be a number 7 guy that plays only 45 to 50 games a year. While I like some of Tanevs skill set, there is something that I do not like and I would like to have another D-man there in case either one stumbles and I think one will be out whipping boy very quickly
It is because he's soft and looks like he's using a big wet noodle to shoot the puck with?
I think Ballard proved he is more than a number 7 in the playoffs. He was great.
