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All Purpose Trades/UFA/Roster Discussion Thread (Happy DVM?) Part III

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07-29-2012, 09:49 PM
  #226
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I like the idea of Arnott if we can't get anything else done. Not a big fan of Moore though.

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07-29-2012, 09:52 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
I would 100 times out of 100 prefer Moore as the #4 center then Holland, not because of skill level, but purely because Holland shouldn't be played in the NHL in a #4 role tbh.
Why? How could playing 10-12 minutes a game as the fourth line center be so bad? Is he just supposed to one day be placed on the third or second line right out of the minors?

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07-29-2012, 10:03 PM
  #228
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Why? How could playing 10-12 minutes a game as the fourth line center be so bad? Is he just supposed to one day be placed on the third or second line right out of the minors?
It all depends on the makeup of the 4th line.

If hes playing on a line with Beleskey and Staubitz I think that hurts his development. That line wont be anything more than an energy unit and Holland is a skill player. But if we have a 4th line that takes a regular shift with some offensive pop then I like the idea. Holland with Winnik and somebody with some hands could be a decent line. All depends on the makeup of the fourth line.

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07-29-2012, 10:13 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by ShadowDuck View Post
Arnott
Holmstrom
Langkow
Moore

Still a handful of vets on the FA market that can help our bottom 6.
Hecht is another possibly 4th C, but he's not very strong on FO's

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07-29-2012, 10:20 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Selanne138 View Post
It all depends on the makeup of the 4th line.

If hes playing on a line with Beleskey and Staubitz I think that hurts his development. That line wont be anything more than an energy unit and Holland is a skill player. But if we have a 4th line that takes a regular shift with some offensive pop then I like the idea. Holland with Winnik and somebody with some hands could be a decent line. All depends on the makeup of the fourth line.
I agree. When Getzlaf and Perry were eased in on the 4th line, they both had each other to feed off and one of the more skilled goons around in Fedoruk. They were also both seeing over 3 minutes of PP time per game (in Getzlaf's case just under 4 minutes, a lot of the time playing with the top unit).

The other thing about Getzlaf and Perry was that they were both far too good for the AHL (both scoring at close to 2PPG), they were better off getting 4th line minutes than skating circles around AHL defenseman. With Holland that's not the case. 60 points in 71 games is definitely impressive but he's not absolutely forcing his way out of the league like Getzlaf and Perry did.

If Holland can be eased in with some quality players and get 2nd unit PP time I'm all for it but if he's stuck playing 7-8 minutes with Staubitz/Beleskey and Cogliano with no special teams time then he's better off in the AHL.

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07-30-2012, 01:05 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
If Holland can be eased in with some quality players and get 2nd unit PP time I'm all for it but if he's stuck playing 7-8 minutes with Staubitz/Beleskey and Cogliano with no special teams time then he's better off in the AHL.
Then put Palmieri on his wing. If we're rolling four lines, bases on the lineup as it is, we won't have a fourth line so much as two third lines. I can also see him getting second power play minutes as well. This kid was taken in the first round three years ago and has a whole year of pro hockey under his belt where he performed well. I feel he should be penciled in based on that barring a poor training camp.

I want a talented center in the bottom-six rather than another scrub like the revolving door we've had with the likes of Christensen, Nokelainen, Carter, Chipchura, Green, Macenauer, Pelley, and O'Marra. Holland is going to be a solid NHL player and needs to get experience sooner rather than later.

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07-30-2012, 02:13 AM
  #232
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Then put Palmieri on his wing. If we're rolling four lines, bases on the lineup as it is, we won't have a fourth line so much as two third lines. I can also see him getting second power play minutes as well. This kid was taken in the first round three years ago and has a whole year of pro hockey under his belt where he performed well. I feel he should be penciled in based on that barring a poor training camp.

I want a talented center in the bottom-six rather than another scrub like the revolving door we've had with the likes of Christensen, Nokelainen, Carter, Chipchura, Green, Macenauer, Pelley, and O'Marra. Holland is going to be a solid NHL player and needs to get experience sooner rather than later.
the problem is will he have enough minutes to develop properly.. and boner and palmieri have good chemistry, i see no reason to break that up.

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07-30-2012, 03:06 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by ShadowDuck View Post
Arnott
Holmstrom
Langkow
Moore

Still a handful of vets on the FA market that can help our bottom 6.
Holmstrom won't be an option. That's all I can say, but you should all know soon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
I want a talented center in the bottom-six rather than another scrub like the revolving door we've had with the likes of Christensen, Nokelainen, Carter, Chipchura, Green, Macenauer, Pelley, and O'Marra. Holland is going to be a solid NHL player and needs to get experience sooner rather than later.
Dominic Moore would be better than all of those (not as skilled as EC, but a better bottom six fit for sure). Moore isn't skilled but he's always above the 20 point mark and that's an upgrade over what we've been used to see in recent years.

Moore wouldn't be that bad of an option, but there's some other players who can help our depth scoring and still bring size, grit or defensive awareness also. Arnott, Langkow, Hecht, Brule for centers. I wouldn't mind Jesse Winchester, not that he's that good, but he's good in the faceoff circle. Darryll Boyce would also bring an physical edge and plenty of grit, but probably isn't good enough if they want to give the 4th line some minutes, especially not if surrounded by other scrubs.

I also like Brule, Hecht and Winchester as all of them can play wing equally as good. In case Holland takes the 2nd line C spot and Bonino is bumped to the 4th.

Either way, I hope the Winnik signing indicates that Murray finally knows what a real bottom six player means and that the AHL experiments are over.


Last edited by Elvs: 07-30-2012 at 03:22 AM.
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07-30-2012, 04:10 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by ShadowDuck View Post
Hecht is another possibly 4th C, but he's not very strong on FO's
He's returning to Germany to slowly ride into the sunset of retirement.

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07-30-2012, 04:59 AM
  #235
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Could Holland and McMillan be a good fit? I really hope he could get back to his usual self and be a good NHL-player.

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07-30-2012, 06:17 AM
  #236
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Could Holland and McMillan be a good fit? I really hope he could get back to his usual self and be a good NHL-player.
I really don't know what to think of McMillan anymore. How did he do in the A last year?

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07-30-2012, 07:08 AM
  #237
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Only 30 points in 55 games. But I don't know what role he had there. Trying to googling him as well is god damn hopeless with his name twin animal trainer popping up everywhere...

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07-30-2012, 08:14 AM
  #238
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I really don't know what to think of McMillan anymore. How did he do in the A last year?
I only saw him at the end of the season, but he didn't look like a guy that was slumming it down there.

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07-30-2012, 10:11 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
the problem is will he have enough minutes to develop properly.. and boner and palmieri have good chemistry, i see no reason to break that up.
Why wouldn't he? If he makes the team the coaching staff will want him to play. I expect he'd get around 10-12 minutes a game. Bonino, Palmieri, Belesky and Smith-Pelly all fell within that range so I can't imagine Holland won't. To get back to the Moore comparison that guy only scored 4 goals and 25 points. I have a hard time to believe Holland can't match that or do better with a plus/minus better than -18.

What good is it to have talent prospects if you just keep them in the minors? The management and coaching staff have each voiced their desire to integrate more young players and I think this is an area where that can work. We know Holland has the skill and the only way to be an NHL player is with NHL experience. I mean if Maxime Macenauer can make this team out of camp as the fourth line center Peter Holland certainly can.

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07-30-2012, 11:18 AM
  #240
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I'm of the belief the team needs to give the young guys a chance to show what they have. If the team is going to improve and maybe surprise this year it can only be done with young guys getting better, not catching lightning in a bottle from some old unexpected source.

Old retreads are what you sign if you already think you have a strong contender that just needs some experience to plug in somewhere.

The Ducks need to know if Palmieri, Bonino, DSP, and Holland are the real deal. They have to be given a chance to play meaningful minutes. Sure it might be painful and they might need to be sent back, but is it really any more painful than watching retreads end their career in ANA? There is a reason those guys are readily available every year. And it isn't to be charitable to the bottom feeders. We finally have some young guys who may have the ability to seriously help lift the credibility of this team. Let's give them a real chance to see if they can.

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07-30-2012, 04:41 PM
  #241
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Does anyone get the sense that the reason why Murray hasn't said that 'Ryan won't be traded', is because he's making Bobby sweat out the summer after that ridiculous interview?

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07-30-2012, 05:20 PM
  #242
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Does anyone get the sense that the reason why Murray hasn't said that 'Ryan won't be traded', is because he's making Bobby sweat out the summer after that ridiculous interview?
I would hope not. If he is going to be that petty then he is confirming that there truly is a rift between himself and Bobby. If that's the case, then it would seem he really is "shopping" him. Thereby making himself look like a liar in public.

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07-30-2012, 05:27 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
I would hope not. If he is going to be that petty then he is confirming that there truly is a rift between himself and Bobby. If that's the case, then it would seem he really is "shopping" him. Thereby making himself look like a liar in public.
I don't think any of that follows.

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07-30-2012, 05:31 PM
  #244
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Does anyone get the sense that the reason why Murray hasn't said that 'Ryan won't be traded', is because he's making Bobby sweat out the summer after that ridiculous interview?
No. That would be just as bad as Bobby's rant IMO. I believe that Murray is waiting to see if one of the offers will meet his demands. I imagine he's got some deadline and if it one of the teams do not cave by then, he will add someone and make a statement like "we believe in our current core, and decided to stick with it" or something like that. I don't think he's really shopping Ryan because IMO that means he's going to move him for sure. However I do think he's listening and he's currently waiting to see if one of the teams, notably philly IMO, will cave. I imagine he will add another forward once he's done with waiting.

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07-30-2012, 05:38 PM
  #245
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I don't think any of that follows.
Well, I certainly hope it doesn't. But if the only reason he isn't publicly denying any Ryan trade is to make Bobby sweat then he is being an ass.

Edit: I would like to think the reason is as Duckstudd theorized above.


Last edited by Eddie Shack: 07-30-2012 at 05:39 PM. Reason: add edit
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07-30-2012, 05:47 PM
  #246
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No. That would be just as bad as Bobby's rant IMO. I believe that Murray is waiting to see if one of the offers will meet his demands. I imagine he's got some deadline and if it one of the teams do not cave by then, he will add someone and make a statement like "we believe in our current core, and decided to stick with it" or something like that. I don't think he's really shopping Ryan because IMO that means he's going to move him for sure. However I do think he's listening and he's currently waiting to see if one of the teams, notably philly IMO, will cave. I imagine he will add another forward once he's done with waiting.
Yeah I agree. I think he'll see if he can get a good deal and if he can't get one by a certain point he'll move forward with Bobby in the lineup. I think the Doan situation is kind of holding things up and he'll wait and see if teams that miss out on Doan are willing to up their offers.

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07-30-2012, 05:51 PM
  #247
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Wonder if Rakell could compete for a bottom6-role already next season. Too bad he isn't AHL eligible for another year. Perhaps he could pull a DSP with an extremely good training camp? He said to Swedish media earlier this summer that he would work on his physique the coming months and give it a real try for a NHL-spot.

I'm almost sure we'll see him in NHL some time in the 2013/14-season though.

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07-30-2012, 06:08 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
No. That would be just as bad as Bobby's rant IMO. I believe that Murray is waiting to see if one of the offers will meet his demands. I imagine he's got some deadline and if it one of the teams do not cave by then, he will add someone and make a statement like "we believe in our current core, and decided to stick with it" or something like that. I don't think he's really shopping Ryan because IMO that means he's going to move him for sure. However I do think he's listening and he's currently waiting to see if one of the teams, notably philly IMO, will cave. I imagine he will add another forward once he's done with waiting.
It would NOT be as bad as Bobby's rant. GM's don't spend their days denying rumors. Most rumors receive no comment from anyone within the teams they're directed at.

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07-30-2012, 06:13 PM
  #249
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Yeah I agree. I think he'll see if he can get a good deal and if he can't get one by a certain point he'll move forward with Bobby in the lineup. I think the Doan situation is kind of holding things up and he'll wait and see if teams that miss out on Doan are willing to up their offers.
There's no reason why Doan should hold up anything with Ryan. Ryan is a long term solution, and Doan most certainly is not. There should be more than this if there are any talks happening. If teams kick the tires and then walk away, it usually means that there wasn't a trade to be had at any price.

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07-30-2012, 07:16 PM
  #250
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There's no reason why Doan should hold up anything with Ryan.
I disagree. If Doan signs in say Pittsburgh or NYR, then other Eastern teams may up their offers to try and establish a top line player. Also, I'm sure Philadelphia would rather be able to acquire Doan without giving up any assets than pay a significant price to get Ryan. If they miss out on Doan they could be willing to give up more to guarantee a top line player coming in. Ryan is more of a long term solution assuming he re-signs where he is traded to why isn't a guarantee at all but teams like the Flyers are looking to win now as much as they are long term.

I know Doan isn't exactly on Ryans level but once he signs somewhere it could impact on what teams are willing to offer for Ryan.

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