Perhaps I got biased by the Weber thing, but isn't the rules that RFA's can't be traded for 1 year? Or maybe this is just for the ones that gets offer sheet (which are matched).
Pretty sure that's just if a player signs an offer sheet.
IE we traded Wiz a couple of years ago days after signing him to an extension through arbitration [IIRC]
Ryan+Fowler for Schenn brothers and picks/prospects, or Ryan+Beauchemin for Couturier++. I don't know quite how they managed it, but Flyers fans have succesfuly topped Leafs fans.
Not until one of them creates a fake Duck fan account and starts posting here how we should want to do that deal, that was so pathetic on every level
Hab's fan here, so fairly neutral on this issue. I just came in to see what the buzz was on where Ryan would be headed.
Have to say though, Ryan, at $5 million per, with 3 years remaining, doesn't logically have an anywhere near comparable value to a Coutourier or Schenn. These two are relatively "can't miss" as far as prospects go, and though neither may ever become quite the player Ryan is, both will be consistent NHLers, most importantly, for the next 7 years belonging to Philly, the next two years at under $1 million per season.
Moving players like that for an unquestionably elite player (a Malkin or Nash type nearing the end of their contracts) may be a sacrifice worth making, but I'd hesitate to place that kind of rarity on Ryan. He is good, but not so rare a talent that the Flyers couldn't keep their prospects and put the same $5 or $6 million towards a guy like Semin, who essentially replaces Ryan's 30 goals per year (in a much less gritty fashion of course).
I would think that Voracek (who is up for a new contract and will likely earn over $3 million and be locked up with a team for 4 to 5 years) is a reasonable ask in exchange for a guy who has put his team in a tough position by asking for a trade.
Hab's fan here, so fairly neutral on this issue. I just came in to see what the buzz was on where Ryan would be headed.
Have to say though, Ryan, at $5 million per, with 3 years remaining, doesn't logically have an anywhere near comparable value to a Coutourier or Schenn. These two are relatively "can't miss" as far as prospects go, and though neither may ever become quite the player Ryan is, both will be consistent NHLers, most importantly, for the next 7 years belonging to Philly, the next two years at under $1 million per season.
Moving players like that for an unquestionably elite player (a Malkin or Nash type nearing the end of their contracts) may be a sacrifice worth making, but I'd hesitate to place that kind of rarity on Ryan. He is good, but not so rare a talent that the Flyers couldn't keep their prospects and put the same $5 or $6 million towards a guy like Semin, who essentially replaces Ryan's 30 goals per year (in a much less gritty fashion of course).
I would think that Voracek (who is up for a new contract and will likely earn over $3 million and be locked up with a team for 4 to 5 years) is a reasonable ask in exchange for a guy who has put his team in a tough position by asking for a trade.
We don't officially know if Bobby Ryan has ever "asked for a trade" though. Lots of rumors. I have personally heard Bobby loves the Ducks but absolutely hates Bob Murray and Randy Carlyle. One is gone and I feel like if Bob was to go tomorrow Bobby Ryan would instantly become a lot more happy and be a Duck for a very long time.
Hab's fan here, so fairly neutral on this issue. I just came in to see what the buzz was on where Ryan would be headed.
Have to say though, Ryan, at $5 million per, with 3 years remaining, doesn't logically have an anywhere near comparable value to a Coutourier or Schenn. These two are relatively "can't miss" as far as prospects go, and though neither may ever become quite the player Ryan is, both will be consistent NHLers, most importantly, for the next 7 years belonging to Philly, the next two years at under $1 million per season.
Moving players like that for an unquestionably elite player (a Malkin or Nash type nearing the end of their contracts) may be a sacrifice worth making, but I'd hesitate to place that kind of rarity on Ryan. He is good, but not so rare a talent that the Flyers couldn't keep their prospects and put the same $5 or $6 million towards a guy like Semin, who essentially replaces Ryan's 30 goals per year (in a much less gritty fashion of course).
I would think that Voracek (who is up for a new contract and will likely earn over $3 million and be locked up with a team for 4 to 5 years) is a reasonable ask in exchange for a guy who has put his team in a tough position by asking for a trade.
Just to straighten a few facts for you.
1. Bobby hasn't asked for a trade.
2. Malkin and Nash are not comparable at all, Ryan and Nash are.
3. If Ryan is not worth even one of Schenn or Couturier, how come Richards and Carter were worth so much more? Theres just no logic here at all.
3. If Ryan is not worth even one of Schenn or Couturier, how come Richards and Carter were worth so much more? Theres just no logic here at all.
Schenn and Couturier hold so much more value now than they did during the trade, I personally don't get why that's so hard for some to understand. Carter was traded for Voracek, a 1st, and a 3rd. Not for Voracek, Nick Cousins, and rookie phenom Sean Couturier who shut down Evgeni Malkin in the playoffs.
Schenn's value arguably hasn't changed much, but it's near impossible that he'll be moved now that Philly just brought his brother to town.
Schenn and Couturier hold so much more value now than they did during the trade, I personally don't get why that's so hard for some to understand. Carter was traded for Voracek, a 1st, and a 3rd. Not for Voracek, Nick Cousins, and rookie phenom Sean Couturier who shut down Evgeni Malkin in the playoffs.
Schenn's value arguably hasn't changed much, but it's near impossible that he'll be moved now that Philly just brought his brother to town.
I'm so tired of reading this. Malkin had 8 points in 6 games (scoreless in 2), or, in other words, was scoring at a higher rate than he did in the regular season. He was not "shut down". He was slightly slowed.
I'm so tired of reading this. Malkin had 8 points in 6 games (scoreless in 2), or, in other words, was scoring at a higher rate than he did in the regular season. He was not "shut down". He was slightly slowed.
If you'd watched the games and focused on him you'd see the work he did against him (I truly mean no offense). Four of those points were scored on the power play which noticeably "did work" against the terrible Flyers defense. There was only so much they could do to contain him then. As far as the even strength goes, he put up 4 points in 6 games which was not so spectacular. It's worth mentioning that Couturier is 19 years old and has tons of time to grow into an even better player.
I would think that Voracek (who is up for a new contract and will likely earn over $3 million and be locked up with a team for 4 to 5 years) is a reasonable ask in exchange for a guy who has put his team in a tough position by asking for a trade.
For ****s sake, why on earth would Ducks move Ryan for someone whose career high is 51p after which he hasn't cracked 50p?
Have to say though, Ryan, at $5 million per, with 3 years remaining, doesn't logically have an anywhere near comparable value to a Coutourier or Schenn. These two are relatively "can't miss" as far as prospects go, and though neither may ever become quite the player Ryan is, both will be consistent NHLers, most importantly, for the next 7 years belonging to Philly, the next two years at under $1 million per season.
I don't think that's sufficient reasoning. The same thing could be said about a ton of trades that happened over the last few years. There's obviously a rightful difference in opinions on how safe they are to not quite becoming the player Ryan currently is, who likely hasn't been at his best, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafontaine
He is good, but not so rare a talent that the Flyers couldn't keep their prospects and put the same $5 or $6 million towards a guy like Semin, who essentially replaces Ryan's 30 goals per year (in a much less gritty fashion of course).
Well, again, I'd have to think that there's not few GMs that look at Ryan very differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafontaine
I would think that Voracek (who is up for a new contract and will likely earn over $3 million and be locked up with a team for 4 to 5 years) is a reasonable ask in exchange for a guy who has put his team in a tough position by asking for a trade.
He has not asked for a trade. We don't have to trade him. We only consider it to improve the team. There's no tough position here, for all we know - we can make a deal that we feel improves our club or we go ahead with Ryan. Maybe that's the source of the misunderstanding here. Ryan's lack of a trade request and lack of a NTC are the two huge factors that positively offset this from the Nash-situation.
For ****s sake, why on earth would Ducks move Ryan for someone whose career high is 51p after which he hasn't cracked 50p?
And where/when has Ryan asked for a trade?
This is getting ridiculous.
This is the standard flight path for trade rumors though. Especially when the other team is a large market or Canadian team.
The chatter devolves from blatant homerism (it STARTS there) to fans of the entitled teams patiently explaining why our player has no value, and we should be grateful for what's being offered. No special knowledge about our actual situation or the player's intent is required.
If you'd watched the games and focused on him you'd see the work he did against him (I truly mean no offense). Four of those points were scored on the power play which noticeably "did work" against the terrible Flyers defense. There was only so much they could do to contain him then. As far as the even strength goes, he put up 4 points in 6 games which was not so spectacular. It's worth mentioning that Couturier is 19 years old and has tons of time to grow into an even better player.
4 points in 6 games ES is hardly "shut down". And Couturier and Read are the Flyers main PK guys, so........
Plenty of players have had a good rookie playoff series and not gone on to win the Hart. He's not the next coming of Brindamour yet.
Schenn and Couturier hold so much more value now than they did during the trade, I personally don't get why that's so hard for some to understand. Carter was traded for Voracek, a 1st, and a 3rd. Not for Voracek, Nick Cousins, and rookie phenom Sean Couturier who shut down Evgeni Malkin in the playoffs.
Schenn's value arguably hasn't changed much, but it's near impossible that he'll be moved now that Philly just brought his brother to town.
Voracek + 8th overall + 3rd , actually. Point taken though, I'd still say Ryan is worth more than Couturier.
I think Ryan is worth about what Mike Richards got. So, he absolutely is worth one of their centres plus some. Now you could make a valid argument that Schenn is worth more now than last summer, but there's no way I'd trade Ryan for one of them straight up. The implicit value of Ryan is very similar to Richards IMO.
Last edited by Jesus Teemu: 07-26-2012 at 01:05 PM.
I wouldnt want to trade either of those centers for Ryan either, frankly. They are cheap, productive, play a more important and harder to replace position, and will be needed once Briere is gone.
Four quality centers does mean that they can theoretically trade one and probably be fine though.
4 points in 6 games ES is hardly "shut down". And Couturier and Read are the Flyers main PK guys, so........
Plenty of players have had a good rookie playoff series and not gone on to win the Hart. He's not the next coming of Brindamour yet.
Considering Malkin is arguably the best player in the world, I'd say he did a pretty damn good job. The reason I pointed out the points in the power play is because it's unfair to take those into account if you're talking about his one-on-one defensive skills. But still, I understand your hesitation and don't blame you either. To be honest, I'd want much more than Couturier back. Definitely would like Voracek or Simmonds added to the deal, at least. But the fact is, that's not going to happen.
At the same time, we have to understand that all this hype for Couturier isn't just coming from the playoffs. Couturier showed the same skills all throughout the year and can only grow from here on out. Not to mention, he would be a very good fit here. Right now, we could slot him behind Koivu so that we're not rushing him into a primary role, while on the same token, he might be able to play himself out of it.
I would have given Semin $7 million a year on a one year deal.
I mean with Teemu odds are having his last season this could have been our last chance while Getz,Fowler and Perry were on a good contracts to take a risk on a one year deal. $7 million would have not impacted us cap wise at all on a one year deal. This is why I wouldn't mind overpaying for one season for a Semin/Doan type player.
I don't know quite how they managed it, but Flyers fans have succesfuly topped Leafs fans.
