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Is Subban going to be approached by other teams?

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Old
07-25-2012, 09:20 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
we're a more powerful/wealthier franchise than Philly. Philly can try, but they wont succeed and may just piss Molson and Bergevin off.
I hope you are joking. Ed Snider probably carries as much clout and as much cash as anyone in the league

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07-25-2012, 09:29 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
Montreal isn't Nashville, we're a more powerful/wealthier franchise than Philly. Philly can try, but they wont succeed and may just piss Molson and Bergevin off.
OHHH, Philly must be ******** bricks by your comment.

If mtl is so wealthy, then why haven't they buried Gomez's contract in the AHL like Toronto did with Jeff Finger?

the truth is, if Philly wants to offer 7mil + per year to Subban, then MTL jumps on the 4 1st round picks

no player not named Malkin or Crosby is worth 4 1st rounders.

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07-25-2012, 09:34 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by maci4life View Post

If mtl is so wealthy, then why haven't they buried Gomez's contract in the AHL like Toronto did with Jeff Finger?


.
Because they haven't had to yet?

If they have to, they will.

Unless you are seriously suggesting that $7M extra is too much for Molson to absorb, in which case you are out to lunch.

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07-25-2012, 09:34 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I hope you are joking. Ed Snider probably carries as much clout and as much cash as anyone in the league
THIS!!

Goes to show you the biggest problem with Habs fans; Their over valuation of the Habs organization and history to the league is as high as their over valuation of their players.

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07-25-2012, 09:39 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Because they haven't had to yet?

If they have to, they will.

Unless you are seriously suggesting that $7M extra is too much for Molson to absorb, in which case you are out to lunch.
Well then what are they waiting for?

if they haven't had to yet, then they're not serious about putting a winning team on the ice.

MTL absorbing 7 million could have been the difference in landing a Suter or Parise.

It could also be the difference in signing Doan ( and still may be the option if it does occur ).

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07-25-2012, 09:39 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
THIS!!

Goes to show you the biggest problem with Habs fans; Their over valuation of the Habs organization and history to the league is as high as their over valuation of their players.
The Habs are worth $445M, the Flyers are worth $290M.

Yes Ed Snider is worth a ton of money, as is Comcast, but the point remains that Molson is an equally powerful company that would have no problems matching the type of offer sheet that was made to Weber.

Philly can pull those type of sheets towards the poor franchises, but when it comes to a rich franchise like Montreal they wouldn't bother trying to bully them, because there would be no point, other than pissing off a franchise that would be looking to pluck Philly's talent in the coming years (Simmonds, Couturier, Giroux, Schenn)

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07-25-2012, 09:41 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
Well then what are they waiting for?

if they haven't had to yet, then they're not serious about putting a winning team on the ice.

MTL absorbing 7 million could have been the difference in landing a Suter or Parise.

It could also be the difference in signing Doan ( and still may be the option if it does occur ).
They aren't contenders. Suter and Parise were never a real option so that's just a logical fallacy in terms of an argument.

When and if the situation arises, Gomez can and will be put in the minors. Just because they didn't do it yet, doesn't mean they can't afford it. That's just silly talk. The net worth of the Molson family/company is around $6B-$12B last time I checked.

If they do sign Doan, Gomez is gone. As simple as that. But as it stands there's no one to take on that salary in his place, so what's the point?

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07-25-2012, 09:43 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Because they haven't had to yet?

If they have to, they will.

Unless you are seriously suggesting that $7M extra is too much for Molson to absorb, in which case you are out to lunch.
Make no mistake, could absorb and would absorb are two different things.

The question is, does this org have the gonads to do what they have to do to win?

Philly has shown that they do ( although failed )... what has MTL done?? they haven't even shown any indication of such.

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07-25-2012, 09:46 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
Make no mistake, could absorb and would absorb are two different things.

The question is, does this org have the gonads to do what they have to do to win?

Philly has shown that they do ( although failed )... what has MTL done?? they haven't even shown any indication of such.
Wait, I thought your argument is that Montreal doesn't have the money to buy out Gomez, like Toronto did with Finger?

They aren't in a position to contend right now, is it that hard to understand?

If they need the space, they will buy out Gomez, but they don't need that space at the moment. What would be the point of having an extra $7M in cap space if you have no one to spend it on?

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07-25-2012, 09:51 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Edgy View Post
So why hasn't Montreal filed for arbitration to protect him from offer sheets like they did with Price?

Isn't there a deadline where they have to agree to terms by before they lose his RFA rights?
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Also replying to Edgy who asked the same question, I'm not sure the reason why but I believe a team can take a player to arbitration once, and MTL seems to love to give out a 2nd short term team after players ELC.

Also I believe Subban had the choice to file for arbitration as well but didn't.
You got it all wrong. Subban was not eligible for arbitration according to current CBA, rules 12.1a
http://www.nhlfa.com/CBA/cba_agreement12.asp
PK signed his contract at exactly 20 years of age (http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=490444), so according to CBA, he needed 5 years of pro experience to get arbitration right...he obviously has only 3...if next contract is 2+ years and is still RFA at the end of said contract, he could fill for arbitration

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07-25-2012, 09:53 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
The Habs are worth $445M, the Flyers are worth $290M.

Yes Ed Snider is worth a ton of money, as is Comcast, but the point remains that Molson is an equally powerful company that would have no problems matching the type of offer sheet that was made to Weber.

Philly can pull those type of sheets towards the poor franchises, but when it comes to a rich franchise like Montreal they wouldn't bother trying to bully them, because there would be no point, other than pissing off a franchise that would be looking to pluck Philly's talent in the coming years (Simmonds, Couturier, Giroux, Schenn)
Isn't the value discrepancy due to MTL including Bell centre as part of the value, while PHilly's arena being owned by comcast and valued seperately?

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07-25-2012, 09:57 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Wait, I thought your argument is that Montreal doesn't have the money to buy out Gomez, like Toronto did with Finger?

They aren't in a position to contend right now, is it that hard to understand?

If they need the space, they will buy out Gomez, but they don't need that space at the moment. What would be the point of having an extra $7M in cap space if you have no one to spend it on?
nope. I know they have the money. Just no balls to get things done.

I just find it pretty comical reading peoples remarks regarding their wealth and ease of matching, when it's pretty much a moot point in the NHL today. All teams can afford to match unless they're at the cap.

like i said, they have the money, the question is if they want to spend it? So far the indication is that they don't. Gomez contract is proof ( to me atleast ), although none of us really know what their plans are for him, so we can't say much anyways.

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07-25-2012, 09:58 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Wait, I thought your argument is that Montreal doesn't have the money to buy out Gomez, like Toronto did with Finger?

They aren't in a position to contend right now, is it that hard to understand?

If they need the space, they will buy out Gomez, but they don't need that space at the moment. What would be the point of having an extra $7M in cap space if you have no one to spend it on?
Doan

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07-25-2012, 09:58 AM
  #64
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Comcast owns the Flyers, so I imagine the evaluation of their franchise includes the arena.

It would be silly for Forbes to include the arena in some valuations and not in others, but I might be wrong.

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07-25-2012, 09:59 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by patsbury View Post
You got it all wrong. Subban was not eligible for arbitration according to current CBA, rules 12.1a
http://www.nhlfa.com/CBA/cba_agreement12.asp
PK signed his contract at exactly 20 years of age (http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=490444), so according to CBA, he needed 5 years of pro experience to get arbitration right...he obviously has only 3...if next contract is 2+ years and is still RFA at the end of said contract, he could fill for arbitration
Sorry for the mistake, thanks for the clarification.

I use to always wonder why the Habs always loved 2 year deals for players coming off ELC, Price,Pacioretty,DD,Eller,Daiz,Emelin, etc who all got two year deals, I guess so it gives them an option to file for arbitration, and be able to negotiate a contract without a threat of an offersheet.

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07-25-2012, 10:00 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
nope. I know they have the money. Just no balls to get things done.

I just find it pretty comical reading peoples remarks regarding their wealth and ease of matching, when it's pretty much a moot point in the NHL today. All teams can afford to match unless they're at the cap.

like i said, they have the money, the question is if they want to spend it? So far the indication is that they don't. Gomez contract is proof ( to me atleast ), although none of us really know what their plans are for him, so we can't say much anyways.

Ugh, no point in continuing if you are going to ignore the fact that Montreal doesn't NEED the extra $7M right now. If they do need it, they will bury Gomez. It's very simple, c'mon now

Quote:
Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
Doan
What about him? If it comes to it Montreal will make room.

Or do you want Montreal to bury him before they have anyone to take the salary? Because that would make little to no sense, despite how it makes you feel like 'they don't have the balls to do it'

Remember, this is the real NHL, not NHL 12 were things can get done in a couple minutes.

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07-25-2012, 10:01 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
nope. I know they have the money. Just no balls to get things done.

I just find it pretty comical reading peoples remarks regarding their wealth and ease of matching, when it's pretty much a moot point in the NHL today. All teams can afford to match unless they're at the cap.

like i said, they have the money, the question is if they want to spend it? So far the indication is that they don't. Gomez contract is proof ( to me atleast ), although none of us really know what their plans are for him, so we can't say much anyways.


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07-25-2012, 10:02 AM
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If he tries to sign PK for 4 1st round picks price he'll be the newest member of the Philadelphia Flyers.

Personally, instead of a high price tag and 4 1sts, give us Schenn/Couturier, Meszaros/Coburn and a 1st in 2013 and pk can go to the flyers. Maybe the flyers' 2nd in 2013 too, since we're collecting those.

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07-25-2012, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Yeah, I'm not getting his point either.

He's taking his (flawed) opinion and presenting it as a fact.

How is anyone supposed to debate with that? lol

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07-25-2012, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Wait, I thought your argument is that Montreal doesn't have the money to buy out Gomez, like Toronto did with Finger?

They aren't in a position to contend right now, is it that hard to understand?

If they need the space, they will buy out Gomez, but they don't need that space at the moment. What would be the point of having an extra $7M in cap space if you have no one to spend it on?
If only cap space was eligible to win Conn Smythe trophies... what years would cap space have won it?

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07-25-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Ugh, no point in continuing if you are going to ignore the fact that Montreal doesn't NEED the extra $7M right now. If they do need it, they will bury Gomez. It's very simple, c'mon now



What about him? If it comes to it Montreal will make room.

Or do you want Montreal to bury him before they have anyone to take the salary? Because that would make little to no sense, despite how it makes you feel like 'they don't have the balls to do it'

Remember, this is the real NHL, not NHL 12 were things can get done in a couple minutes.
with MTl still having to sign Subban, they wouldn't have the cap space to sign Doan. Burying Gomez would give them that room.

THEREFORE, to answer your question of why MTL would need that extra 7m, it would be to sign Doan.

What about him? If it comes to it Montreal will make room.


umm yeah, and HOW would they make room? i already proposed Gomez to AHL as that option.

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07-25-2012, 10:10 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
Problems go further. Could create tension within the locker room, especially with Subban not being unanime with his teammate.

Imagine he signs a Boston Bruins offersheet.

The chaos.
Honestly I really doubt that would happen, however if it did, I honestly don't think I would want him back

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07-25-2012, 10:11 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
with MTl still having to sign Subban, they wouldn't have the cap space to sign Doan. Burying Gomez would give them that room.

THEREFORE, to answer your question of why MTL would need that extra 7m, it would be to sign Doan.

What about him? If it comes to it Montreal will make room.


umm yeah, and HOW would they make room? i already proposed Gomez to AHL as that option.

Do you know that teams can spend up to 10% over the cap during the summer, and don't have to be under the camp until the season starts.

So IF the Habs want to sign Doan or whoever, they can sign him, have him and Gomez come to training camp, have them play on the same line during pre-season and then send Gomez down?

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07-25-2012, 10:11 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
with MTl still having to sign Subban, they wouldn't have the cap space to sign Doan. Burying Gomez would give them that room.

THEREFORE, to answer your question of why MTL would need that extra 7m, it would be to sign Doan.

What about him? If it comes to it Montreal will make room.


umm yeah, and HOW would they make room? i already proposed Gomez to AHL as that option.

Are you serious?

IF Montreal needs that salary, they will make room by burying Gomez.

I mean, we've gone over this a few times now.

They can still sign Doan, and take care of the cap room later, since teams are allowed to go over the cap during the summer. Gomez in the minors at the start of the season and all is great.

BUT all that is moot, since it hasn't happened yet. When the time comes, IF Doan signs, they'll make room.

C'mon dude, stop going around in circles.

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07-25-2012, 10:14 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Yeah, I'm not getting his point either.

He's taking his (flawed) opinion and presenting it as a fact.

How is anyone supposed to debate with that? lol
Presenting as fact??

where are you reading this??

you're both taking my points as absolutes ( no they aren't fact ), when they're merely opinion of how to increase cap space, and what i feel may be the necessary route in clearing space.

if MTl has the gonads

then they sign subban, bury Gomez, and sign Doan.

if they don't

then Sign subban, keep Gomez, and welcome to last year.

MTL has $6,302,024 and that doesn't include Subban's new contract.

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