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Redemption? Players who need to bounce back.

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Old
07-25-2012, 04:15 PM
  #151
HiddenInLight
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
If someone hit my wife, I didn't start the fight, but I'm finishing it. My concerns aren't for good law and order, or making the situation worse, at that point. For me, it's about two things: honor and the future.

For me, it's dishonorable to let someone hit my wife and not do anything. I'm also sending a message - hit my wife, and you're getting the worse part of the deal.

That's the lens I view that situation through, and the Lucic incident. All five players had an opportunity to uphold their honor, and didn't. All five players had an opportunity to send a message, and didn't.

Sure, four of the five guys on the ice would've gotten slammed by Lucic. After Lucic got out of the box, he should have been fought by Gaustad (if he didn't get the initial fight), Regehr, McCormick, etc. Then they should've ran Thomas as well.

Hockey is a competition of wills. The Bruins imposed their will on Buffalo, who did nothing.

BUT, that's just my view. It could be wrong.


I'll be honest, my wife (girlfriend, not actually married) would ever be in a situation where a guy would throw a punch at her. Also are you insinuating that Miller is Vanek's wife?


Yes you are right on the Bruins imposing their will on the Sabres, but you DONT need to impose your will through a fight. I think anybody would have been ok with anybody but Gaustad or Sekera not reacting if the sabres had won that game 6-2 instead of losing it 6-2. It WOULD have shown that the sabres are mentally tougher then the Bruins. But that didn't happen.


Also Jame's favorite player was on the ice, why isn't he crying that Sekera didn't fight? AGENDA

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07-25-2012, 04:19 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
So after your girlfriend was assaulted, you would get up on the bar and do a dance?
My girlfriend would never have been in the situation in the first place, because first, we choose not to be around complete ****tards, (but hey whoever you hang out with isn't my business) and second, I'm a pretty imposing guy (6'4" used to box), so I don't think that anybody would even think about it in the first place. Maybe I just cant insert myself into that situation, because I would generally not let a situation escalate to the point where somebody took a swing at her in the first place, so I guess that would be the disconnect in that situation.

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07-25-2012, 04:48 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
I'll be honest, my wife (girlfriend, not actually married) would ever be in a situation where a guy would throw a punch at her. Also are you insinuating that Miller is Vanek's wife?


Yes you are right on the Bruins imposing their will on the Sabres, but you DONT need to impose your will through a fight. I think anybody would have been ok with anybody but Gaustad or Sekera not reacting if the sabres had won that game 6-2 instead of losing it 6-2. It WOULD have shown that the sabres are mentally tougher then the Bruins. But that didn't happen.


Also Jame's favorite player was on the ice, why isn't he crying that Sekera didn't fight? AGENDA
Sekera is a bad example. It took Jame about six years to like Sekera and get over the fact that he took himself out of a game. He's not his favorite player, believe me.

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07-25-2012, 04:59 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Sekera is a bad example. It took Jame about six years to like Sekera and get over the fact that he took himself out of a game. He's not his favorite player, believe me.
Sekera WAS a favorite of mine as a prospect and early career... then i despised him from that moment you mentioned til early this season when he finally started putting it all back together.

i actually go back and forth on players based on what they do each year... unlike the hero worship so common around here.

i didn't really start crapping on vanek until the lucic incident. that was the final straw... where after all his cons, his pros were no longer worth it

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Old
07-25-2012, 05:00 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
My girlfriend would never have been in the situation in the first place, because first, we choose not to be around complete ****tards, (but hey whoever you hang out with isn't my business) and second, I'm a pretty imposing guy (6'4" used to box), so I don't think that anybody would even think about it in the first place. Maybe I just cant insert myself into that situation, because I would generally not let a situation escalate to the point where somebody took a swing at her in the first place, so I guess that would be the disconnect in that situation.
that's wonderful

vanek didn't have the luxury of not being in the situation

he was in the situation...

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Old
07-25-2012, 05:00 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Sekera WAS a favorite of mine as a prospect and early career... then i despised him from that moment you mentioned til early this season when he finally started putting it all back together.

i actually go back and forth on players based on what they do each year... unlike the hero worship so common around here.

i didn't really start crapping on vanek until the lucic incident. that was the final straw... where after all his cons, his pros were no longer worth it

You didn't start crapping on Vanek until Roy was traded.

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07-25-2012, 05:01 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
that's wonderful

vanek didn't have the luxury of not being in the situation

he was in the situation...
Are you trying to say that Miller is Vanek's wife?

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07-25-2012, 05:12 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
You didn't start crapping on Vanek until Roy was traded.
you're wrong

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Old
07-25-2012, 05:14 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
Are you trying to say that Miller is Vanek's wife?
no
miller is vanek's teammate

but yes, i would like the relationship between our teammates to have more identification with the themes associated with family and comraderie.

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07-25-2012, 05:19 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
no
miller is vanek's teammate

but yes, i would like the relationship between our teammates to have more identification with the themes associated with family and comraderie.
I'm with Jame on this one, Doesnt matter whos on the ice stick up for your freakin teamates..

as far as bouncing back, everyone on the roster not named PoMinville needs to improve off of last season. Leino really sticks out only because the year before last he played great and was very underwhelming last season..

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07-25-2012, 05:20 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
no
miller is vanek's teammate

but yes, i would like the relationship between our teammates to have more identification with the themes associated with family and comraderie.
Well, based on Miller's own comments, he and Gaustad are BFFs. Gaustad was on the ice, is expected to fight in those kinds of situations, and still did nothing.
There is no merit to singling out Vanek more than any other guy who played in that game for not responding. The team failed.

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07-25-2012, 05:33 PM
  #162
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we haven't even gotten into the trickle down affect of Vanek's inaction...

"if Vanek doesn't have to do anything in that situation... why do i?"

vs

"if 7 million dollar goal scorer does something in that situation... we all have to do something in those situations"

i prefer the later...

unfortunately, we got the prior... and the Sabres season imploded.

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Old
07-25-2012, 05:57 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
I'll be honest, my wife (girlfriend, not actually married) would ever be in a situation where a guy would throw a punch at her. Also are you insinuating that Miller is Vanek's wife?


Yes you are right on the Bruins imposing their will on the Sabres, but you DONT need to impose your will through a fight. I think anybody would have been ok with anybody but Gaustad or Sekera not reacting if the sabres had won that game 6-2 instead of losing it 6-2. It WOULD have shown that the sabres are mentally tougher then the Bruins. But that didn't happen.


Also Jame's favorite player was on the ice, why isn't he crying that Sekera didn't fight? AGENDA
Everyone that frequents this board knows Jame's agenda. How it matters depends on the discussion. If we're talking about trading Vanek or making roster moves, it's something to keep in mind. I don't see how Jame's agenda has any bearing onto the Lucic situation. What Vanek didn't do is on video. It's not up for debate. Vanek, and the other four players on the ice, failed to act.



It's about the will to act.

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07-25-2012, 06:12 PM
  #164
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I just watched the Miller/Lucic video posted earlier in the thread for the first time in a while.

My immediate reaction was: "How sweet is this?!"

Lucic could easily have steered away from Miller as Miller beat him to the puck, and that's what most guys would have done. Instead, Lucic decided "what the heck, I think I'll light up Miller and let's see what happens!"

Can you imagine having guys like that on the Sabres? How sweet would that be?

Put one player like that on each of your 4 forward lines and you will win a lot of games in this league.

A player like that, and a play like that, is at LEAST as valuable as a top sniper. In the playoffs, it's probably more valuable than the sniper actually.

Toughness and grit with a healthy smattering of talent thrown in will always defeat superior raw talent with no toughness in the NHL.

You don't win the Cup unless you are successful at playoff hockey. And playoff hockey in particular is not an All Star Game skills competition. A lot of posters on this forum seem to have not figured that out yet.

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07-25-2012, 07:06 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Video makes me sick. Myers should be the one throwing jabs to his chin.
Agreed on Myers. Thanks goose! Btw, at least vanek hit lucic. Our captain did what exactally?
Name another NHL captain that wouldn't have dropped the gloves to protect his goalie? Bet you can't...

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07-25-2012, 07:31 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by moltenlava26 View Post
Agreed on Myers. Thanks goose! Btw, at least vanek hit lucic. Our captain did what exactally?
Name another NHL captain that wouldn't have dropped the gloves to protect his goalie? Bet you can't...
With Lucic? Probably 90% or more wouldn't.

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07-25-2012, 08:04 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by moltenlava26 View Post
Agreed on Myers. Thanks goose! Btw, at least vanek hit lucic. Our captain did what exactally?
Name another NHL captain that wouldn't have dropped the gloves to protect his goalie? Bet you can't...
Last season? Only one of the greatest defenseman who ever played the game wouldn't have dropped the gloves to fight Lucic if his goaltender got ran.

Not that I'm happy with what Pommer did on the ice that day or what anyone did on the ice when Lucic hit Miller, but you seriously expect them to drop the gloves with Lucic? He would have knocked them all out. They all should have just dogpiled the guy but they didn't even do that.

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07-25-2012, 08:15 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by moltenlava26 View Post
Agreed on Myers. Thanks goose! Btw, at least vanek hit lucic. Our captain did what exactally?
Name another NHL captain that wouldn't have dropped the gloves to protect his goalie? Bet you can't...
Eric Staal
Milan Hejduk
Mikko Koivu
Brian Gionta
Daniel Alfredsson
Henrik Sedin

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07-25-2012, 08:44 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Royisgone View Post
I just watched the Miller/Lucic video posted earlier in the thread for the first time in a while.

My immediate reaction was: "How sweet is this?!"

Lucic could easily have steered away from Miller as Miller beat him to the puck, and that's what most guys would have done. Instead, Lucic decided "what the heck, I think I'll light up Miller and let's see what happens!"

Can you imagine having guys like that on the Sabres? How sweet would that be?

Put one player like that on each of your 4 forward lines and you will win a lot of games in this league.

A player like that, and a play like that, is at LEAST as valuable as a top sniper. In the playoffs, it's probably more valuable than the sniper actually.

Toughness and grit with a healthy smattering of talent thrown in will always defeat superior raw talent with no toughness in the NHL.

You don't win the Cup unless you are successful at playoff hockey. And playoff hockey in particular is not an All Star Game skills competition. A lot of posters on this forum seem to have not figured that out yet.
this sounds eerily similar to the one poster who will forever hate the kassian/hodgson trade...both these topics/ideas/opinions (whatever you want to call them) are unrealistic.
It's nearly impossible to put one guy like Lucic on every forward line unless you get lucky in the draft and hit a bunch of home runs on power forwards. even if you do, the odds of keeping every single one of them after they are done with their ELC contracts is low.
IMO, that's not a "sweet" play. That's absolute garbage hockey. I have no problem with toeing the line when it comes to physical play/trash talking, which guys like Kaleta and Ott will do, but then there's completely crossing it and making a dirty play.
Also, a LOT of sabres fans on here have said for a while that the team needs to get bigger, meaner, and more difficult to play against. Regier has definitely kept that in mind, considering what he's done lately-drafting Kassian (although he didn't work out here), Foligno, McNabb, Tropp, and Girgs, and acquiring Ott

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07-25-2012, 10:37 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Everyone that frequents this board knows Jame's agenda. How it matters depends on the discussion. If we're talking about trading Vanek or making roster moves, it's something to keep in mind. I don't see how Jame's agenda has any bearing onto the Lucic situation. What Vanek didn't do is on video. It's not up for debate. Vanek, and the other four players on the ice, failed to act.
Good point. Some posters seem unable to differentiate between the topic on hand and the posters behind it. There has to be agendas everywhere.

The main point isn't even about Vanek -- it's that in a moment where our star goaltender was run over, nobody stepped up. And yes, I'm talking physically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
That wasn't even really my argument, which was they should have run the Bruins out of the arena. They should have been the team that put up 6 goals on them. They did it later that year, why couldn't they do it then.
This can be extrapolated to: why don't they just win all 82 games? The NHL is a parity league at this point. Any team can win on any night. Simply willing yourself to score a hat trick is illogical and doesn't address the issue of your goaltender being run.

Besides which, in a sports league where the regular season is as long as it is and has seemingly less and less direct mathematic correlation to championships (see: LA Kings), two points means nothing at that point in the season compared to standing up for teammates directly.

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07-25-2012, 10:52 PM
  #171
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why does it have to be about singling vanek out? I myself and no one else who is ripping Vanek for the Lucic incident cares to argue the semantics of vanek alone....should everyone else have jumped lucic...yes, but that also doesnt excuse vanek....he needs to be lumped with the other guys on the ice who did nothing, the guys who did nothing for the rest of that game as well.

The fact that we didnt respond until Goose finally dropped em(and got dropped himself) is pathetic.

Slightly OT but IIRC, McCormick, kaleta were both hurt for the redemption game where we finally nutted up and lost in the shooot out and kassian and mcnabb had yet to arrive right?

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07-25-2012, 11:14 PM
  #172
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I don't really know why this thread turned into seven pages about why vanek should have responded to the lucic incident, but we could do better.

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07-26-2012, 12:09 AM
  #173
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I don't really know why this thread turned into seven pages about why vanek should have responded to the lucic incident, but we could do better.
we missed the playoffs....3/4's of our team seemingly missed 3/4's of the year and outside of Pominville no regular roster player was/is beyond scrutiny.....so to be short the thread idea as a whole was a bust because nearly everyone needs to step it up.

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07-26-2012, 05:42 AM
  #174
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Pretty much all the guys on the ice failed. The ones there early were Vanek and Sekera. Then Pominville, Myers and finally Gaustad. All of them share in the shame and lack of response.

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07-26-2012, 05:44 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
you're wrong
Proove it. Let's see a post of yours irrationally ******** on vanek before roy got traded.

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