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Why not sign Semin ?

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07-25-2012, 07:47 AM
  #26
NYVanfan
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he made $6.7M last year and $6M the year before, both one-year deals.
he is a flight risk and is probably asking for the moon.
he woulda been snapped up by the Wings or Pens by now if there wasnt truth to all his character knocks.
agree w y2k -- he's not coming here and we dont want him.

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07-25-2012, 07:54 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Because he's a heartless ***** who wouldn't help this team. We need fewer heartless players, not more of them.
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
I want players that want to win and have a good attitude first and foremost. Will beats skill in this NHL.
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Disagree, we lacked heart this past year and our team is mentally weak enough as it is. Adding a guy who quits on his team half the time isn't the answer.
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Originally Posted by digger18 View Post
Amen to that
I know those are the common cliches in hockey, but you know what helps the team win more than anything else? Scoring more goals than the other team. And Semin does that better than any current Vancouver Canuck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
here's a thing semin is: elite talent in every quantifiable way
here's a thing semin isnt: a guy that looks like he works hard

here's a thing that doan is: good defensive, decent offensive talent
here's a thing that doan is: a guy that looks like he works hard

in pretty much every single metric that directly leads to winning, semin is the better player. he scores more, he posseses more, he defends better

in pretty much every metric that doesn't directly lead to winning, doan is the better player: he hits more, he's canadian, he skates hard, he's dirty, he's more experienced, he fights more and he fights better

doan is the kind of player you sign if you want to have the appearance of building a winning team, semin is the kind of player you sign if you want to build a winning team.

PS: to be fair, doan has a history of being durable and semin doesn't. of course, we all know the story of ballard, hamhuis and mitchell (thanks CA) so i'm not sure it matters
^^ This.



Semin gets an unbelievable amount of crap from everywhere and it's ridiculous because he's actually a fantastic hockey player - but the things he does well are the things most fans don't notice.

Here's perhaps the best article on Semin I've seen:
source
Quote:
In his column, Simmons also discusses what he calls the “10 Percent Theory.” All great athletes have weaknesses, and even the greatest players are only using about 90 percent of their total potential (not sure how Simmons quantifies this, but in general the theory makes sense). These weaknesses represent the other 10 percent. For some players, these weaknesses are more glaring than others (in Semin’s case, his get dissected on an almost daily basis). With the right coaches, the right fit, and the right playing style, these weaknesses are minimized.

Simmons mentions Steve Francis in his column. Francis very well could be the Semin of the NBA – a mercurial and talented player who was a divisive figure from day one. Francis refused to play for the Vancouver Grizzlies, the team that drafted him, while Semin returned back to Russia after spending 52 games in Washington as a rookie in 2003-04. Simmons discussed Francis with his former coach Jeff Van Gundy. Van Gundy had Francis during his tenure in Houston, and during that time he tried to change the highly skilled and explosive guard into more of a typical pass-first point guard. In the process, he took away Francis’s 90 percent and focused too much attention on his 10 percent.

Over the last four years, Semin has also proven himself to be an excellent penalty killer. His 4.2 goals against per 60 minutes is in the top 10 lowest among forwards during that period, and he has kept opponents to 44 shots against per 60 when he has been on the ice, 26th best.”

Even during 2011-12, a season in which Semin saw his ice time cut to 16:47 per game, and was playing with checkers instead of Washington’s top talent; he was able to generate scoring chances at a significantly greater rate than any other Capital.

“A scoring chance is defined as a clear play directed toward the opposing net from a dangerous scoring area, loosely defined as the top of the circle in and inside the faceoff dot. Blocked shots are generally not included, but missed shots are. A player is awarded a “chance for” (SCF) if someone on his team has a chance to score and a “chance against” (SCA) if the opposing team has a chance to score.”

Semin’s scoring chance differential of plus-52 was more than double any other Capital player (Perreault was second at plus-24). With Semin on the ice, the Capitals generated 52 more scoring chances on net than their opposition did.

Semin, thought of as a one-way offensive talent, would surely drag down the defensive play of his linemates, no?

Quite the opposite, in fact. Almost all of his linemates have had better goals-against ratios while playing with him compared to playing without him (excluding Ovechkin in 2010-11). Only one of 14 linemates from the past three seasons performed significantly better defensively without Semin than with him.
Whomever does sign Semin is probably getting the best deal in the 2012 free agency.


Last edited by eklunds source: 07-25-2012 at 08:00 AM.
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Old
07-25-2012, 08:19 AM
  #28
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I'd love Semin in Vancouver. The guy is skills personified.

Vancouver cannot allow the slowing Sedins to remain the focus of other teams checking lines. There must be second line threat and a serious one to take the constant battering defense away from the twins. Semin, on his own, can provide that, even with a couple of plumbers.

Who would center the second line, though? Signing Semin wouldn't solve all the problems, but it would be a grand start.

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07-25-2012, 08:34 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
I'd love Semin in Vancouver. The guy is skills personified.

Vancouver cannot allow the slowing Sedins to remain the focus of other teams checking lines. There must be second line threat and a serious one to take the constant battering defense away from the twins. Semin, on his own, can provide that, even with a couple of plumbers.

Who would center the second line, though? Signing Semin wouldn't solve all the problems, but it would be a grand start.
i think most people have schroeder pencilled in assuming he has a good camp.

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07-25-2012, 09:14 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
I know those are the common cliches in hockey, but you know what helps the team win more than anything else? Scoring more goals than the other team. And Semin does that better than any current Vancouver Canuck.


^^ This.



Semin gets an unbelievable amount of crap from everywhere and it's ridiculous because he's actually a fantastic hockey player - but the things he does well are the things most fans don't notice.

Here's perhaps the best article on Semin I've seen:
source


Whomever does sign Semin is probably getting the best deal in the 2012 free agency.
I'm sold. It's an excellent article.

I still don't think we're on his radar for us to sign a reasonable deal with him. We don't have any Russians on our team either.

If he's willing to sign with us for say, 6m or 6.5m then it's doable. He's probably looking for 7m+.

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07-25-2012, 09:33 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Brandonlee View Post
Personally, I'd rather have him over Doan if both are asking for similar contracts.
I would rather have Semin in my hockey pool.
But if I am trying to win a cup, I would take Doan over Semin every day, and twice on Sundays.

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07-25-2012, 09:54 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Simple question.. He has more talent then Booth or Kesler.
I'll give you Booth, but Kes is a Selke winner. When Kesler is in form he is way more valuable than semin imo. I just hope he can return to form after all the injuries.

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07-25-2012, 10:07 AM
  #33
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He may be ultra-talented, but his effort level is pathetic, and he isn't good in the playoffs.
When a teammate calls you out for not caring, it's never a good thing.

He isn't what we need on the 2nd line. Pass. (unless he agrees to a league minimum contract )

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07-25-2012, 10:09 AM
  #34
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Semin is probably the closest thing the league has to Alexei Yashin nowadays.

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07-25-2012, 10:25 AM
  #35
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I'll give you Booth, but Kes is a Selke winner. When Kesler is in form he is way more valuable than semin imo. I just hope he can return to form after all the injuries.
No question he's more skilled than Kesler. Even Kesler in his best year, there's no question.

I would take him on this team as well. But I doubt "why not sign him?" would be easy because he's in low demand or anything... He'll probably cash out as well.

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07-25-2012, 10:26 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post

Whomever does sign Semin is probably getting the best deal in the 2012 free agency.
Doubtful.

Semin is going to get paid or he would have signed already.

You're either going to pay full price for what you get or he goes back to Russia IMHO.

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07-25-2012, 10:34 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Because he's a heartless ***** who wouldn't help this team. We need fewer heartless players, not more of them.
I can guarantee you right now that Semin has put more heart, effort and work into becoming a NHL quality hockey player than you or me have ever put into anything in our entire lives.

Calling him heartless is a lazy, gutless shot at someone whose motives you know nothing of.

Maybe he is heartless. Maybe he doesn't care at all. But that's not for you to decide.

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07-25-2012, 10:37 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
I can guarantee you right now that Semin has put more heart, effort and work into becoming a NHL quality hockey player than you or me have ever put into anything in our entire lives.

Calling him heartless is a lazy, gutless shot at someone whose motives you know nothing of.

Maybe he is heartless. Maybe he doesn't care at all. But that's not for you to decide.
Okay so why bother discussing hockey if our opinions don't count on a message board?

But hey, I guess a hockey player like Matt Bradley doesn't have his opinion count either right? As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, because he's a tough hard working Canadian hockey player his opinion doesn't count.

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07-25-2012, 10:47 AM
  #39
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Okay so why bother discussing hockey if our opinions don't count on a message board?
It's one thing discussing quantifiable stats. Something like "I don't want Semin because I feel he takes an inordinate amount of lazy penalties which, coupled with our reputation which would lead to even more calls, will cost us several games"

You're at least basing that opinion on observable, quantifiable things. Someone can respond to that with a counter arguement and an actual discussion can be had.

Saying something like "Semin is heartless" is an absolute garbage personal attack that you can't possibly have any insight on whatsoever. It's the same garbage as calling Luongo a headcase or a choker. How does that foster any sort of possible discussion besides a "hey, let's just team up on this player!" discussion?

Quote:
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But hey, I guess a hockey player like Matt Bradley doesn't have his opinion count either right? As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, because he's a tough hard working Canadian hockey player his opinion doesn't count.
Bradley's exact quote was "He’s one guy who has so much talent, he could easily be the best player in the league, and just for whatever reason, just doesn’t care." which is more of the same "just doesn't care" garbage.

If he didn't care, he wouldn't in the NHL. It's an insult to all NHL players to suggest someone who doesn't care is able to walk into the league and be one of the best players in it.

What he doesn't do is make a big show about his effort levels. He doesn't run around giving out cross checks when he's angry, he doesn't run around yapping to the refs or looking for the big hits. When he's not scoring he *looks* lazy because he's not doing all those things you're trained to look for as signs of effort. It's not an absolute positive correlation though - fans of the Canucks should know watching the Sedins 82 games a year. How many garbage comments do we get per year about the Sedins being too lazy and needing to try more? While it is possible they're just being lazy sometimes, most of the times those statements are just trash.

Joel Ward, another hard working grinder, spoke up in support of Semin. At worst his opinion and Matt Bradley's cancel each other out and you're given two opposing view points to consider.

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07-25-2012, 11:35 AM
  #40
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This team already posesses enuff cream puff hockey players. If we want to continue having great regular seasons, only to turn around and get manhandled by more physical teams in the playoffs, then we will keep rolling with players like Semin.

Vancouver has a smaill window, when it comes to being a contender. With that in mind, I take a player like Shane Doan any day of the week, and twice on Sunday over a skilled softy like Semin. Especially if I am looking at who gives us the better chance to win, when it counts.

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07-25-2012, 11:36 AM
  #41
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some #s on Semin ...

reg season, he is a career .870 scorer (408 pts in 469 gp over 7 seasons)
post season, he is a career .667 scorer (34 pts in 51 gp over 7 seasons)

however, over the last 3 years, those numbers are

reg season, he is a .893 scorer (192 pts in 215 gp over last 3 seasons)
post season, he is a .400 scorer (12 pts in 30 gp over last 3 seasons)

he got better in the reg season, and worse in the playoffs
that puts him closer to the Higgins/Hansen/Raymond range than the Burrows range, to say nothing of kesler/Sedins range, which is what we'd have to pay him like ...

curiously, he was ppg in the postseason for his first couple years w the Caps.

IMO, pass on this guy, bigtime (unless he wants to sign for 1 year for $5M or less, which is completely unrealistic)

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07-25-2012, 12:17 PM
  #42
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07-25-2012, 12:25 PM
  #43
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curiously, he was ppg in the postseason for his first couple years w the Caps.
its almost like the playoffs are a small sample size prone to fluctuations and are a poor way to singlehandedly evaluate a player

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07-25-2012, 12:29 PM
  #44
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3 yrs / 5.25M

If he can be had for that cap hit, 30 out 30 teams in this league would be all over that.

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07-25-2012, 12:29 PM
  #45
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its almost like the playoffs are a small sample size prone to fluctuations and are a poor way to singlehandedly evaluate a player
Don't be ridiculous. now quickly, get rid of Luongo, did you see Cory Schneider's stats in this year's playoffs???

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07-25-2012, 12:31 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
its almost like the playoffs are a small sample size prone to fluctuations and are a poor way to singlehandedly evaluate a player
30 playoff games is not that small a sample

i dont want the guy unless he's absurdly cheap

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07-25-2012, 12:35 PM
  #47
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I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a handful of offers already out there for Semin and he and his agent are just waiting for the Doan domino to drop. Then the real bidding war begins and some desperate to make a splash GM will offer him stupid money. He'll get his sweetheart deal or he go to the KHL..... but I doubt it comes down to that.

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07-25-2012, 12:51 PM
  #48
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30 playoff games is not that small a sample

i dont want the guy unless he's absurdly cheap
its small enough that it makes a player as good as semin look like hansen or raymond so yeah, its pretty small

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07-25-2012, 12:52 PM
  #49
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If he can be had for that cap hit, 30 out 30 teams in this league would be all over that.
Washington sources were reporting he was looking for 2 yrs between 10-12M.

Mr. Peanut calling him a coach killer probably didn't help his reputation to people that don't know him well. We could use a coach killer on our team.

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07-25-2012, 12:58 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by M A K A V E L I View Post
Washington sources were reporting he was looking for 2 yrs between 10-12M.

Mr. Peanut calling him a coach killer probably didn't help his reputation to people that don't know him well. We could use a coach killer on our team.
Wow.

But it seems like Gillis and co are more interested in Doan than Semin. Even if we ship Ballard out for a bag of doritos we still won't have enough cap space to fit Doan and Semin. Gillis will be forced to trade Luongo and take little salary back if we sign both players.

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