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3 way trade Mtl-Hawks-Ducks

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Old
07-25-2012, 05:15 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsweeney View Post
As a Wings fan, I feel pretty qualified to speak on Bobby Ryan and Patrick Kane as trade commodities, cause I've seen a lot of both of them the last several seasons.

Kane is the best player in this trade. He's that level of star that affects the game with his offensive ability every time he's on the ice. He can do things that other players just can't. Like the playoffs against Detroit where he was completely blanketed on a play and found a way to deke it in close and rip a backhander into a space hardly bigger than the puck. I wanted the Wings to win more than anything, but even I had to stop and say "Damn, that was amazing"

Bobby Ryan isn't too far back of that and has physicality on his side over Kane. He falls just below because of Kane's ability to flat out take over a game with skill. Maybe he'd even be a little more consistent than Kane because being a big body doesn't go away. He's really good offensively and is by far a more physical player than Kane, but he just doesn't have the superstar level skill to deke through and around against a defense that is going all out to shadow him.

To be honest, picking between the two would really depend on your team's need. Kane is the better talent but Ryan is a bigger, more physical player who, although he possesses less than Kane, still has elite skill in spades. Also, his cap hit is better than Kane's.


And on Plekanec, I haven't seen enough of him to say anything. Just guessing though, I'd say he's a couple levels below either of them.
i agree on a couple of parts but the only thing is Chicago need a second line center.
ive heard it hasent been working with Kane and ive also heard that Kane
has been slacking and getting into trouble with the team.
thats the main reason why chicago want to trade him.
im sorry to say but ive watched Hawks playoffs last year and Kane hasnt done much.
scored once in the past 2 years in playoffs.
idk where you see he can take away a game to himself but i don't think your talking about P.Kane here.
don't get me wrong he can make couple of spectacular plays but from there to say that he can take away a game to himself, because of his talent i don't think so....
and if he can he he prob did it once. hes not Malkin, Crosby or Toews..
your a over rating Kane dude...

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07-25-2012, 05:17 AM
  #27
tsweeney
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Originally Posted by Greenstickytoes View Post
1st, Plekanec in any other team then montreal is an easy 80 pts or more player.
hes been playing every year with different wingers, he never got to adapt with anyone throughout his whole career.
Put him with Sharp or Hossa and tell me if hes going to make less than 80pts per season...
on top of that he has an excellent 2 way game. your underrating this player a bit to much IMO.
2nd, Bobby Ryan has much more value then Kane today because of kanes trouble
to the team and his decrease of points for the past 2 years..
3rd, your prob right for the 5th rounder since hjalmarrson is decent, so switch it for a 3rd rounder.
4th, Hawks is Bergevin old team. he has alot of contacts over there.
trades can be done to bend little more to his favor.
He's topped out as a 70 point player twice in his entire career. Every other year has been 55 or below. And maybe I am underrating him, but you are as well with Ryan and Kane's defensive ability. They're probably not in line for the Selke, but they're not exactly chopped liver

When you say "excellent two-way play", you better mean on the level of Pavel Datsyuk (regular season) or Henrik Zetterberg (playoffs) where they carry the team offensively as well as being the best defensive players on the ice.

Kane's "off-ice" stuff is not as big a deal as you're making it out to be. And as shown, even with his drop in points, he's still got more points per season than Ryan. Ryan's attributes and why he may be worth more are related to his cap-hit relative to production and the fact he's a bigger body with similar (although lesser) skills.

Switching it from a 5th to a 2nd does nothing to change Chicago's level of interest. The Habs would be getting the improved pick, so why would it matter how good Hjalmarsson is?

The whole "old team" philosphy helps you out in trading for depth skaters, backup goalies, and mid-late round picks. You're not going to get a sweetheart deal for a superstar because you used to skate for the team you're dealing with.

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07-25-2012, 05:20 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanick View Post
I don't think anyone underrates Plekanec but trying to convince another NHL GM that he is going to do something that he has never done (being a PPG player) because he has better wingers is not going to work. If Toews can't be PPG player playing with Hossa or Kane or Sharp then I don't think Pleks would be able to



Again he is in his young 20s and most young people make questionable decision and good luck trying to convince the Hawks GM that it is a good enough reason to trade him for less than his value



Still not enough for a player of Hjalmarrson's talent



Even if he has contacts in that organization I doubt that means they are going to give him favor in trade negotiations. I just doesn't work like that. Every GM is looking to get the best deal for his team regardless of how he feels about the opposing teams GM.
Patrick Kane Biased Goggles.

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Old
07-25-2012, 05:24 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenstickytoes View Post
i agree on a couple of parts but the only thing is Chicago need a second line center.
ive heard it hasent been working with Kane and ive also heard that Kane
has been slacking and getting into trouble with the team.
thats the main reason why chicago want to trade him.
im sorry to say but ive watched Hawks playoffs last year and Kane hasnt done much.
scored once in the past 2 years in playoffs.
idk where you see he can take away a game to himself but i don't think your talking about P.Kane here.
don't get me wrong he can make couple of spectacular plays but from there to say that he can take away a game to himself, because of his talent i don't think so....
and if he can he he prob did it once. hes not Malkin, Crosby or Toews..
your a over rating Kane dude...
Maybe I am. I just remember watching Kane (yes, I'm talking about Patrick) in the 08 Cup run when the Wings knocked them off in 5 games and then when the Hawks won the cup in 2010. He had spectacular plays in each of those playoff years of the "I don't care what defense you throw at me, I'm going to beat it" variety. Like highlight-reel stuff. Maybe it's not reality, but I know every Wings-Hawks game, I'm scared to death when Patrick Kane has the puck on his stick in the Wings zone.

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07-25-2012, 05:25 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenstickytoes View Post
i agree on a couple of parts but the only thing is Chicago need a second line center.
ive heard it hasent been working with Kane and ive also heard that Kane
has been slacking and getting into trouble with the team.
thats the main reason why chicago want to trade him.
im sorry to say but ive watched Hawks playoffs last year and Kane hasnt done much.
scored once in the past 2 years in playoffs.
idk where you see he can take away a game to himself but i don't think your talking about P.Kane here.
don't get me wrong he can make couple of spectacular plays but from there to say that he can take away a game to himself, because of his talent i don't think so....
and if he can he he prob did it once. hes not Malkin, Crosby or Toews..
your a over rating Kane dude...
... and YOU'RE underrating him. No way in hell Chicago does this trade. Kane is better at 2C instead of doing this deal.

2nd, Chicago does not want to trade Kane. It has never even come up. The trouble you speak of is blown out of proportion by the media. As far as your playoff stats in two first round exits. Kane is not a scorer first, never has been.

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Old
07-25-2012, 05:26 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by tsweeney View Post
He's topped out as a 70 point player twice in his entire career. Every other year has been 55 or below. And maybe I am underrating him, but you are as well with Ryan and Kane's defensive ability. They're probably not in line for the Selke, but they're not exactly chopped liver

When you say "excellent two-way play", you better mean on the level of Pavel Datsyuk (regular season) or Henrik Zetterberg (playoffs) where they carry the team offensively as well as being the best defensive players on the ice.

Kane's "off-ice" stuff is not as big a deal as you're making it out to be. And as shown, even with his drop in points, he's still got more points per season than Ryan. Ryan's attributes and why he may be worth more are related to his cap-hit relative to production and the fact he's a bigger body with similar (although lesser) skills.

Switching it from a 5th to a 2nd does nothing to change Chicago's level of interest. The Habs would be getting the improved pick, so why would it matter how good Hjalmarsson is?

The whole "old team" philosphy helps you out in trading for depth skaters, backup goalies, and mid-late round picks. You're not going to get a sweetheart deal for a superstar because you used to skate for the team you're dealing with.
please go criticize CBJ for giving Nash for Dubinsky and all these no name players.
you must seem to know more about NHL then they do right?
btw i said put it to a 3rd rounder for Hawks not montreal...
why would i say change the 5th rounder to give to montreal when we were talking about Ryan and Kane and Hjalmarrson.

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07-25-2012, 05:28 AM
  #32
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Well at least Kane isn't comming to the Habs in the OP's offer.Don't need a cancer like him on our team.

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07-25-2012, 05:30 AM
  #33
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Chicago larfs at this one.

Kane is starting to get extremely under rated on these forums and the only way, with what he brings to the table not only on the ice but as one of the faces of the franchise is if somebody of that magnitude is coming back in his return, and there isnt one person like that in this preposterous proposal.

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07-25-2012, 05:38 AM
  #34
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How does this trade benefit the Ducks?

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07-25-2012, 05:51 AM
  #35
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It benefits the Ducks because you're getting an at least comparable asset in Patrick Kane and a better asset in Hjalmarsson over a 2nd rounder, because you'd probably be happy if your 2nd round pick was a solid NHLer like Hjalmarsson... and you'd be getting that without the risk of it busting.

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07-25-2012, 05:57 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenstickytoes View Post
Patrick Kane Biased Goggles.
Yeah it could be that

or you know...

logic.

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07-25-2012, 05:58 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsweeney View Post
It benefits the Ducks because you're getting an at least comparable asset in Patrick Kane and a better asset in Hjalmarsson over a 2nd rounder, because you'd probably be happy if your 2nd round pick was a solid NHLer like Hjalmarsson... and you'd be getting that without the risk of it busting.
We have enough Wingers in our System...what we need is depth at C. Kane doesn't provide that. So he doesn't make sense for the Ducks.

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Old
07-25-2012, 06:19 AM
  #38
tsweeney
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Quote:
please go criticize CBJ for giving Nash for Dubinsky and all these no name players.
you must seem to know more about NHL then they do right?
I will. The way Howson handled that whole affair was terrible. He backed himself into a corner where he ended up getting less for an elite winger like Nash than he should have.

He got plenty of quantity of completely replaceable parts. Dubinsky and Anisimov are good, not great and Erixon is an upper mid-range prospect, not a true blue-chipper. And lastly, the 1st is guaranteed to be a late 1st, so even that's not worth as much.

And honestly, without knowing a thing about the NHL, you could tell that Howson got a terrible deal by the way the whole thing played out. Nash is an established 1st line all-star and he got back a bunch of 2nd liners, a prospect who will probably peak as a 2nd pairing D, and a late 1st round pick.

I'd be pissed at that return for trading Pavel Datsyuk or Henrik Zetterberg... and Nash is probably worth more in the free market than either of them.

Quote:
btw i said put it to a 3rd rounder for Hawks not montreal...
why would i say change the 5th rounder to give to montreal when we were talking about Ryan and Kane and Hjalmarrson.
I was trying to keep it in the same framework as the OP, but clearly I was dumb on that point. 2nd and 3rd for Hjalmarsson is probably an overpayment for him, even... but Kane + Hammer > Pleks, 2 & 3, Y Weber, and Gallagher.

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07-25-2012, 06:28 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenstickytoes View Post
Bobby ryan is worth more than P.Kane IMO.
because of his size and physical play.
Kane lost alot of value since there has been trouble with him and the team
in the past year.
He also is getting less and less points for the past 2 years...
no excuse
As an Oiler fan I agree . I would take Bobby Ryan over P Kane every day of the week . Plus i would not want P Kane with in 1000 miles of our young guys . Just another problem we do not need . There is always those who make excuses for Kane . He young what kid does not drink at that age , well i never . I never drank in my life and there are others out there that are the same as me . What kind of loser punch a taxis driver over a few cents ? For those who make excuses for the guy maybe you need to look in the mirror or maybe when you are at work ,doing your job and someone comes and punches you ,you would think different

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07-25-2012, 07:41 AM
  #40
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As an Oiler fan I agree . I would take Bobby Ryan over P Kane every day of the week . Plus i would not want P Kane with in 1000 miles of our young guys . Just another problem we do not need . There is always those who make excuses for Kane . He young what kid does not drink at that age , well i never . I never drank in my life and there are others out there that are the same as me . What kind of loser punch a taxis driver over a few cents ? For those who make excuses for the guy maybe you need to look in the mirror or maybe when you are at work ,doing your job and someone comes and punches you ,you would think different
makes sense. you dont want a guy who drinks at frat parties on your team but one thats convicted of drinking and driving and sentenced to jail time is no problem at all...lol, anyway this deal is awful for the hawks, you dont trade a top line superstar for a 2nd line center and third pairing dman with potential. and theres a huge difference between dealing Kane and dealing Nash, Nash wanted out and the Hawks nor Kane want to see him play anywhere but Chicago right now.

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07-25-2012, 08:20 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenstickytoes View Post
Bobby ryan is worth more than P.Kane IMO.
because of his size and physical play.
Kane lost alot of value since there has been trouble with him and the team
in the past year.
He also is getting less and less points for the past 2 years...
no excuse
Kane is still worth more in a trade.

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07-25-2012, 08:33 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Kane is still worth more in a trade.
Why?

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07-25-2012, 08:33 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenstickytoes View Post
Plekanec+2nd rounder = Kane
Weber + Gallagher = Hjalmarrson

Bobby ryan + 5th rounder = Kane + Hjalmarrson
Plekanec+2nd <<<Kane- value is not even close.

Weber+ Gallagher<<< Hjalmarrson- Chicago needs size and grit on D. Hammer may be soft but he's a better D then Weber will ever be. Gallagher is more of a insult then anything and doesn't add any value.

Bobby Ryan+5th= Kane+Hjalmarrson- the value is close, but never happens. Both teams would pass

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07-25-2012, 08:52 AM
  #44
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I have never seen such a horrible proposal get so vehemently defended.

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07-25-2012, 08:55 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Greenstickytoes View Post
Patrick Kane Biased Goggles.
Haha, yes, we blues fans really love going out of our way to defend Patrick Freaking Kane...

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07-25-2012, 08:56 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Plekanec+2nd <<<Kane- value is not even close.

Weber+ Gallagher<<< Hjalmarrson- Chicago needs size and grit on D. Hammer may be soft but he's a better D then Weber will ever be. Gallagher is more of a insult then anything and doesn't add any value.

Bobby Ryan+5th= Kane+Hjalmarrson- the value is close, but never happens. Both teams would pass
Change the 5th to a 1st and maybe the Hawks think about it...but in the end they still don't do it.

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07-25-2012, 10:07 AM
  #47
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Bad thing witht he OP : Chi and MTL in the same trade. Plekanec and Kane in the same trade. Op maybe mistaken Bobby Ryan for Corey Perry.

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07-25-2012, 10:44 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenstickytoes View Post
to Mtl:
-Bobby Ryan
-5th rounder

to Hawks:
-Plekanec
-Weber
-Gallagher
-2nd rounder

to Ducks:
-P.Kane
-Hjalmarrson
should'nt P.K OR Maxpatch be in there some where??,ducks giving up ryan and hawks kane and the almighty habs with plekanec,what a joke

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07-25-2012, 10:46 AM
  #49
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I have never seen such a horrible proposal get so vehemently defended.
Yeah this is pretty funny to watch.

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07-25-2012, 11:01 AM
  #50
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You don't trade players like Patrick Kane at 23 years old.

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