HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly: Bobby Hunting [All Bobby Ryan Discussion | Part VI]

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-28-2012, 05:21 PM
  #351
Confound
-Vindicated-
 
Confound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Maine
Country: United States
Posts: 17,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
No they don't. A Selke-winning center who can also put up 60-70 points is worth more than a goal-scoring 60-point winger.
Speak for yourself then.

Goals are much more rewarding than assists. FACT

Confound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 05:22 PM
  #352
sabresandcanucks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
The problem is that Kesler hasn't been healthy since the end of the '10-11 season. Based on the three guys the Ducks had rehabbing shoulder injuries last year it likely takes him up to a full year to return to form regardless of when he is supposed to return to the ice. That requires a +.
If it requires a + from VAN then Mike Gillis hangs up the phone.

sabresandcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 05:23 PM
  #353
sabresandcanucks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confound View Post
Speak for yourself then.

Goals are much more rewarding than assists. FACT
Not being a liability in your own zone is kinda a big deal too...Centers are worth more than wingers as well...especially in this market.

sabresandcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 05:27 PM
  #354
PhoenyX
Registered User
 
PhoenyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,658
vCash: 500
Well it's a good thing Ryan is far from a liability in his own zone.

PhoenyX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 05:36 PM
  #355
sabresandcanucks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenyX View Post
Well it's a good thing Ryan is far from a liability in his own zone.
When he isn't floating around....and lets not put him on the same level as a multi time Selke nominee.

sabresandcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 05:39 PM
  #356
Horton Hears A Woo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confound View Post
Speak for yourself then.

Goals are much more rewarding than assists. FACT


hahah it would be ryan plus for kesler

. kesler a center ryan plays wing
. kesler can put up close to the same amount of points while being one of the best defensive forwards in the game you really cant even argue it.

Horton Hears A Woo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 05:40 PM
  #357
Crazy8oooo
k ؃
 
Crazy8oooo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Orange County
Country: United States
Posts: 967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
No they don't. A Selke-winning center who can also put up 60-70 points is worth more than a goal-scoring 60-point winger.
Without arguing value, I find it interesting how you label Kesler as a 60-70 point player yet Ryan only as a 60 point player. Based on games played, Ryan is averaging 64 points a season over his career, while Kesler is averaging 49 points over his career. If you want to argue that Kesler didn't come into his own until later in his career, then even looking at just the last 4 years, Kesler has averaged 64 points over that span with Ryan has averaged 62. Kesler has hit the 70 point mark twice and Ryan once...so if you're going to call Kesler a 60-70 point player than it would be fair to also call Ryan one.

Edit: Not to mention, Kesler is probably in his prime, whereas Ryan is just entering it.

Crazy8oooo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 05:56 PM
  #358
sabresandcanucks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
Without arguing value, I find it interesting how you label Kesler as a 60-70 point player yet Ryan only as a 60 point player. Based on games played, Ryan is averaging 64 points a season over his career, while Kesler is averaging 49 points over his career. If you want to argue that Kesler didn't come into his own until later in his career, then even looking at just the last 4 years, Kesler has averaged 64 points over that span with Ryan has averaged 62. Kesler has hit the 70 point mark twice and Ryan once...so if you're going to call Kesler a 60-70 point player than it would be fair to also call Ryan one.

Edit: Not to mention, Kesler is probably in his prime, whereas Ryan is just entering it.
Ryan is certainly the better offensive player...but the rest of his game is not up to Kesler's level to warrant Vancouver having to add to any offer for Ryan...not to mention how thin it would leave Vancouver at center.

sabresandcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 06:02 PM
  #359
Crazy8oooo
k ؃
 
Crazy8oooo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Orange County
Country: United States
Posts: 967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabresandcanucks View Post
Ryan is certainly the better offensive player...but the rest of his game is not up to Kesler's level to warrant Vancouver having to add to any offer for Ryan...not to mention how thin it would leave Vancouver at center.
You might want to re-read my post, since you're quoting me and making a point that Kesler's value is higher than Ryan's. My post started out with, "Without arguing value..." Hence, it had nothing to do with their values. I was merely stating that if Kesler is being labeled as a 60-70 point player then so should Ryan be.

Crazy8oooo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 06:09 PM
  #360
BruinsNeedaRussian
Registered User
 
BruinsNeedaRussian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,805
vCash: 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confound View Post
VAN needs to add Kesler + for Ryan.
You can't be serious...

BruinsNeedaRussian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 06:30 PM
  #361
Gliff
Nick Bonino
 
Gliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 8,751
vCash: 500
"60 point winger" lol

Gliff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 06:55 PM
  #362
tsujimoto74
Registered User
 
tsujimoto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 8,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confound View Post
Speak for yourself then.

Goals are much more rewarding than assists. FACT
Centers >>> wingers. FACT.
Kesler is a great defensive forward, while Ryan is pretty much average in that regard.
The difference in goals scored between the two is not nearly enough that Ryan is worth more than Kesler.

tsujimoto74 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 07:03 PM
  #363
Coldplay
Courage
 
Coldplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montral
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,326
vCash: 500
So much delusion in here.

Coldplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 07:10 PM
  #364
HiddenInLight
Registered User
 
HiddenInLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,011
vCash: 500
Just curious, (I didn't think up this offer, I saw it on twitter) what you guys thought of this offer:

Stafford, Adam, Sekera, 1st for Ryan

Personally I don't know that the Ducks would take it, but I think the value is at least close, I think it would be right on if Stafford were a center as that is what the ducks would be looking for, unless Darcy were to somehow pull some Darth Regier shenannigans to convince that Adam can play 2nd line C for the ducks next year....but I think it's probably doubtful.

Either way it amounts to: 2nd line Winger (big, but not overly physical, ability (has done it before) to score 30 goals but is streaky, C/LW prospect, just on the cusp of being NHL ready, had some huge ups and just as huge downs last year, and a top 4 Dman, plus a first. Interesting offer IMO.

HiddenInLight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 07:12 PM
  #365
Ducks DVM
Moderator
There is no grunion
 
Ducks DVM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabresandcanucks View Post
If it requires a + from VAN then Mike Gillis hangs up the phone.
Then he hangs up. Kesler is damaged goods who will be missing at least a quarter of the season (assuming there's a season). And then will be less than himself for some period of time after that. You think Gillis would trade a top line player straight up for someone who is guaranteed to miss a huge chunk of the season and would then likely to be unable to play to his previous level for up to another 6 months, or possibly never?

Ducks DVM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 07:12 PM
  #366
ColePens
Global Moderator
Your Savior
 
ColePens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 32,095
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ColePens
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confound View Post
Speak for yourself then.

Goals are much more rewarding than assists. FACT
Doesn't it result in the same thing? A point for your team? That's just such a weird thing to say. You are trying to generalize something that cannot be.

People... the game of hockey isn't all about goals and assists. Stop throwing dumb stats out there to prove points. There is so much more to the debate.

ColePens is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 07:13 PM
  #367
McTank
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,820
vCash: 500
From buffalo I hope that doesnt happen. I want ryan but not at that cost

McTank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 07:15 PM
  #368
Ducks DVM
Moderator
There is no grunion
 
Ducks DVM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Doesn't it result in the same thing? A point for your team? That's just such a weird thing to say. You are trying to generalize something that cannot be.

People... the game of hockey isn't all about goals and assists. Stop throwing dumb stats out there to prove points. There is so much more to the debate.
I've never seen an assist without a goal, or seen a game where the team with the most assists won unless they also had the most goals, so no, they aren't really the same.

Fully agreed there's a lot more to hockey than goals and assists though.

Ducks DVM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 07:18 PM
  #369
Confound
-Vindicated-
 
Confound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Maine
Country: United States
Posts: 17,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
So much delusion in here.
How's the view up there?

It's not that delusional, I've seen far worse than Ryan being more valuable than Kesler.

Confound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 08:11 PM
  #370
tsujimoto74
Registered User
 
tsujimoto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 8,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
Just curious, (I didn't think up this offer, I saw it on twitter) what you guys thought of this offer:

Stafford, Adam, Sekera, 1st for Ryan

Personally I don't know that the Ducks would take it, but I think the value is at least close, I think it would be right on if Stafford were a center as that is what the ducks would be looking for, unless Darcy were to somehow pull some Darth Regier shenannigans to convince that Adam can play 2nd line C for the ducks next year....but I think it's probably doubtful.

Either way it amounts to: 2nd line Winger (big, but not overly physical, ability (has done it before) to score 30 goals but is streaky, C/LW prospect, just on the cusp of being NHL ready, had some huge ups and just as huge downs last year, and a top 4 Dman, plus a first. Interesting offer IMO.
IMO, it's overpayment, but I'd do it. I don't think the difference between Stafford and Ryan is Sekera + Adam + a 1st, but I do think we can afford to lose those assets for the sake of upgrading a bit on the wing.

tsujimoto74 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 08:14 PM
  #371
cbj21
Registered User
 
cbj21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Shampoo land
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,520
vCash: 500
Hopefully he is traded to a team without a "Perry" and a "Getzlaf" so we will see his true value.

cbj21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 08:20 PM
  #372
CBJfan4evr
Registered User
 
CBJfan4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Albany
Country: United States
Posts: 581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
Just curious, (I didn't think up this offer, I saw it on twitter) what you guys thought of this offer:

Stafford, Adam, Sekera, 1st for Ryan

Personally I don't know that the Ducks would take it, but I think the value is at least close, I think it would be right on if Stafford were a center as that is what the ducks would be looking for, unless Darcy were to somehow pull some Darth Regier shenannigans to convince that Adam can play 2nd line C for the ducks next year....but I think it's probably doubtful.

Either way it amounts to: 2nd line Winger (big, but not overly physical, ability (has done it before) to score 30 goals but is streaky, C/LW prospect, just on the cusp of being NHL ready, had some huge ups and just as huge downs last year, and a top 4 Dman, plus a first. Interesting offer IMO.
How about from CBJ

Brassard
Calvert
Moore
NY 1st

To CBJ

Ryan

CBJfan4evr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 08:27 PM
  #373
sg58
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbj21 View Post
Hopefully he is traded to a team without a "Perry" and a "Getzlaf" so we will see his true value.
What if he spent all the time with them on ES and PP? Then we'd be talking some value.

sg58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 08:41 PM
  #374
tsujimoto74
Registered User
 
tsujimoto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 8,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJfan4evr View Post
How about from CBJ

Brassard
Calvert
Moore
NY 1st

To CBJ

Ryan
Not an equivilant package. Moore is a 6/7 D-man. Sekera is a top 4 on a cheap contract. Buffalo's 1st also probably ends up higher than NYR's.

tsujimoto74 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 08:54 PM
  #375
MyersMagic57*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Not an equivilant package. Moore is a 6/7 D-man. Sekera is a top 4 on a cheap contract. Buffalo's 1st also probably ends up higher than NYR's.
Sekera was our best defensemen lat year. IMO Sekera has the potential to be Anahiems best defensemen if this trade were too happen.

MyersMagic57* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:45 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.