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The Good, the Bad and the Ugly: Bobby Hunting [All Bobby Ryan Discussion | Part VI]

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Old
07-29-2012, 04:40 AM
  #426
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Originally Posted by hockeyguy View Post
it was their percentages of line combos and yea the edit was to an earlier post and i wish i knew the totals i just went to the last ten but yea he played 8 percent on his line combos on the third line so the last ten games is roughly 8 percent so those will have a higher percentage without the three
First, it was more than 8 percent. It's a little over 15 percent of the shifts Anaheim took in their last ten games had Ryan in a bottom six role, and a little over 5 percent of Anaheim's shifts in that time were with Bobby and some combo of the three top forwards.

Second, I was pointing out something that everyone claiming about Ryan being carried by this forward or that hasn't shown yet: how much of his scoring had those guys as contributors - not the ice time totals?

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07-29-2012, 04:43 AM
  #427
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Originally Posted by hockeyguy View Post
i know perry missed two games to a shoulder injury against the stars, i watch quite a bit of ducks games, all i said was perry took a ton of PIMS, and had a dissapointing year compared to his mvp year which cant be argued, going from 98 to 60 points is a big jump
Getzlaf was slumping last year. That is going to bring down a winger's totals even if they're playing at the top of their game. If you watched that many Ducks games, surely you noticed that while Teemu was putting points up in the last half, he was struggling on most of his shifts in that time span. His age was showing big time in the second half.

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07-29-2012, 04:55 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
First, it was more than 8 percent. It's a little over 15 percent of the shifts Anaheim took in their last ten games had Ryan in a bottom six role, and a little over 5 percent of Anaheim's shifts in that time were with Bobby and some combo of the three top forwards.

Second, I was pointing out something that everyone claiming about Ryan being carried by this forward or that hasn't shown yet: how much of his scoring had those guys as contributors - not the ice time totals?
first the 8% was the amount of total shifts bobby ryan took last season on the third line and i was saying the last ten games roughly probably featured the majority of the 8% since you said teemu never 3rd lined meaning 92% of his season shifts were top 6 shifts. I was saying in the last ten games he would probably have more points without perry,getz, or teemu since he played 8% of his shifts in the bottom 6 which didn't feature the big 3 and 8% of 82 is 6.5 games. so thanks for helping my argument by showing in the last ten is when he took the majority of his bottom six since he tripled his shifts with bottom guys compared to with teemu, getz, and perry

as for your second part the breakdown isnt ice time its shift paring percentage and i only looked up the last 10 games so we know he had 46 points in the other 72 when he was more of a top 6. and he played 56% of his season's shifts on the top line so since you said getz's struggles effected perry than naturally they should affect ryan as well


Last edited by hockeyguy: 07-29-2012 at 05:18 AM.
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07-29-2012, 05:53 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by hockeyguy View Post
first the 8% was the amount of total shifts bobby ryan took last season on the third line and i was saying the last ten games roughly probably featured the majority of the 8% since you said teemu never 3rd lined meaning 92% of his season shifts were top 6 shifts. I was saying in the last ten games he would probably have more points without perry,getz, or teemu since he played 8% of his shifts in the bottom 6 which didn't feature the big 3 and 8% of 82 is 6.5 games. so thanks for helping my argument by showing in the last ten is when he took the majority of his bottom six since he tripled his shifts with bottom guys compared to with teemu, getz, and perry
That doesn't follow. All lines do not get an equal amount of shifts. Having 8% of shifts, doesn't apply directly to games played. By that logic, DSP only played in 5 percent of the games this year; going by the numbers. He played in 49 games.

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as for your second part the breakdown isnt ice time its shift paring percentage and i only looked up the last 10 games so we know he had 46 points in the other 72 when he was more of a top 6. and he played 56% of his season's shifts on the top line so since you said getz's struggles effected perry than naturally they should affect ryan as well
Unless that site has a way to isolate it to more than the last ten games, say the last 20 or 30, it doesn't mean that the last ten games are where all of that representation took place. That is not a valid conclusion to draw.

I did a rough count of his last 3 1/2 months, and I got 18 out of 37 points in that time with contribution from the three top forwards from that; so a smidgen under 50 percent. I didn't have a pen and paper handy, so it might be something like 19 out of 38 or something, but it's close enough.

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07-29-2012, 07:02 AM
  #430
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The last 2 seasons, Stafford vs. Ryan:

Ryan: .39 gpg, .78 ppg

Stafford: .36 gpg, .72 ppg

If people think the difference between Stafford is a highly touted NHL ready prospect, a young top 4 defenseman and a 1st, they are nuts.

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07-29-2012, 08:25 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Emerald Duck View Post
Anaheim wants more, or we want different pieces (i.e., Armia instead of Adam, Ennis/Hodgson instead of Stafford, etc) ? There's a big difference between higher quality vs higher quantity. Ryan won't bring back more than 3 players, and I don't think Anaheim can take on this many extra contracts without going over 50 anyways.
If you honestly think that is a Quantity offer, your delusional. Its a top six forward (close stats to Ryan) a top 4 Dman on one of the best contracts in the league regarding his ability, and one of our better prospects and a first. That value isn't something to snub. I can understand you saying that it isn't in positions of great need to your team, but not that the value isn't there. That is an overpayment (which is exactly what it would take to land a Ryan type player). If you were looking for value equal to Ryan, you'd be looking at maybe Stafford + 1st....(Im NOT saying that that is what he would be traded for, just that in a vaccume and the ducks wanted to trade Ryan for equal value, that is somewhere near the value they'd get)

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07-29-2012, 08:26 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
The last 2 seasons, Stafford vs. Ryan:

Ryan: .39 gpg, .78 ppg

Stafford: .36 gpg, .72 ppg

If people think the difference between Stafford is a highly touted NHL ready prospect, a young top 4 defenseman and a 1st, they are nuts.
While you are fairly correct, it will take overpayment to get Ryan, which is why I wouldn't mind that deal too much.

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07-29-2012, 11:03 AM
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
The last 2 seasons, Stafford vs. Ryan:

Ryan: .39 gpg, .78 ppg

Stafford: .36 gpg, .72 ppg

If people think the difference between Stafford is a highly touted NHL ready prospect, a young top 4 defenseman and a 1st, they are nuts.
Ryan: Career low

Stafford: Career year

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07-29-2012, 11:26 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Ryan: Career low

Stafford: Career year
Incorrect. First, it wasn't Drew's best year last year and second, it was a pretty typical year for him. 50 points or so and inconsistent.

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07-29-2012, 11:50 AM
  #435
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Incorrect. First, it wasn't Drew's best year last year and second, it was a pretty typical year for him. 50 points or so and inconsistent.
2 points off his career high... sorry.

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07-29-2012, 11:51 AM
  #436
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TO ANA:
Grabovski
Colborne
TOR 2nd

TO TOR:
Kopitar
ANA 4th

TO LAK:
Ryan
TOR 1st

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07-29-2012, 11:55 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by leafs8181 View Post
TO ANA:
Grabovski
Colborne
TOR 2nd

TO TOR:
Kopitar
ANA 4th

TO LAK:
Ryan
TOR 1st
We have now reached a new low...

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Old
07-29-2012, 11:58 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
The last 2 seasons, Stafford vs. Ryan:

Ryan: .39 gpg, .78 ppg

Stafford: .36 gpg, .72 ppg

If people think the difference between Stafford is a highly touted NHL ready prospect, a young top 4 defenseman and a 1st, they are nuts.
Why disregard Stafford's other seasons? Over their careers Ryan is significantly better than Stafford.

Stafford : 0.287 GPG 0.620 PPG

Ryan : 0.410 GPG 0.780 PPG

Stafford had 2010-2011 that jacks his stats up but Ryan is consistent.

Edit : That said the difference isnt what you mentioned, but it will still be a lot.

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07-29-2012, 12:05 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
If you honestly think that is a Quantity offer, your delusional. Its a top six forward (close stats to Ryan) a top 4 Dman on one of the best contracts in the league regarding his ability, and one of our better prospects and a first. That value isn't something to snub. I can understand you saying that it isn't in positions of great need to your team, but not that the value isn't there. That is an overpayment (which is exactly what it would take to land a Ryan type player). If you were looking for value equal to Ryan, you'd be looking at maybe Stafford + 1st....(Im NOT saying that that is what he would be traded for, just that in a vaccume and the ducks wanted to trade Ryan for equal value, that is somewhere near the value they'd get)
I was just trying to clarify an earlier posters comments about Anaheim asking "for more", which could mean more players or more quality/fewer players. I was not implying the often heard refrain about trying to buy quality with quantity. It wasn't clear to me what the comment meant. We are not fixated on grabbing a lot of assets but we are trading the best piece in this deal from both a value and performance view.

The OP said that Buffalo offered Stafford, Adam, Sekera +1st but Anaheim was looking for more. A top 6 RW (which Anaheim has an abundance of, don't know if Drew can play LW), a young center with upside (2C ? - I don't know enough about Luke Adam), a top 4 dman at a position that Anaheim that is not a spot of weakness at the moment) and a 1st in a deep draft for Ryan.

In addition the Ducks would be taking on $7.5M of salary vs. $5.1M for Ryan, which is likely a no-go.

Based on Anaheim's current needs, I don't see Sekera as part of the package. Stafford, one of Ennis/Hodgson +1st for Ryan. Whether or not Buffalo can slot Adam into their 2C spot to replace one of these guys or trade Sekera to another team for a 2C is up to Buffalo fans.

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07-29-2012, 12:08 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by leafs8181 View Post
TO ANA:
Grabovski
Colborne
TOR 2nd

TO TOR:
Kopitar
ANA 4th

TO LAK:
Ryan
TOR 1st
Nice try. No way do you pry Kopitar away from LA for that

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07-29-2012, 12:11 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by leafs8181 View Post
TO ANA:
Grabovski
Colborne
TOR 2nd

TO TOR:
Kopitar
ANA 4th

TO LAK:
Ryan
TOR 1st
, you aren't helping the stereotype.

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07-29-2012, 12:12 PM
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Ryan: Career low

Stafford: Career year
Its the last 2 seasons. It's the best sample you can get of what they are now. If it was just last season, then fine, but it isn't.

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07-29-2012, 01:28 PM
  #443
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Its the last 2 seasons. It's the best sample you can get of what they are now. If it was just last season, then fine, but it isn't.
Actually, the best picture you can get of where they are right now would be just last year. The only reason to add '10-11 would be to skew the numbers with his career year - what he did 14-21 months ago really has no bearing on his current play, which has been significantly inferior since. Stafford has been a 15-20 goal/ 45-50 point player every single year except 2 years ago.

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07-29-2012, 01:48 PM
  #444
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Lol at Buffalo spare junk, nothing of interest.
Possibly the lowest proposals yet. Keep creampuff Stafford

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07-29-2012, 01:51 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by leafs8181 View Post
TO ANA:
Grabovski
Colborne
TOR 2nd

TO TOR:
Kopitar
ANA 4th

TO LAK:
Ryan
TOR 1st


As a Kings fan simply lurking the thread, this made my day. What is up with Toronto fans and Kopitar lately?

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07-29-2012, 01:53 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by leafs8181 View Post
TO ANA:
Grabovski
Colborne
TOR 2nd

TO TOR:
Kopitar
ANA 4th

TO LAK:
Ryan
TOR 1st
Please stop. Kopitar is going nowhere.

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07-29-2012, 01:54 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by BringTheReign View Post


As a Kings fan simply lurking the thread, this made my day. What is up with Toronto fans and Kopitar lately?
I guess they would do anything to get #1c, but I don't understand why Kopi of all centers .

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07-29-2012, 02:58 PM
  #448
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I guess they would do anything to get #1c, but I don't understand why Kopi of all centers .
They've been through this with JStaal, EStaal, Getzlaf and Kesler already. It is simply Kopitar's turn right now. Give it time and it'll blow over.

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07-29-2012, 03:06 PM
  #449
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I think this 3-way deal makes sense:

To VAN: Bobby Ryan and 2nd Round Pick (TOR)
To ANA: David Booth, Nikolai Kulemin, Nazem Kadri, 1st Round Pick (VAN)
To TOR: Roberto Luongo

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07-29-2012, 03:40 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Might they be talking about games as opposed to ice time?

You added something else to this, it was about his scoring. How much of Ryan's points last season involved a contribution by Getzlaf, Perry, and/or Selanne? I honestly don't know because I've only looked at the last ten games he played - it was 3 out of 11 points in that stretch. I mean, if we're going to accuse him of being carried by the three best forwards on the team, it would be good to know how few points he had with everyone else.
54.4% Involved Selanne, Perry or Getzlaf

Other players involved in his points: Koivu,Hagman,Smith-Pelly,Bonino,R.Pelley,Fowler,Palmieri,Visnovsky,Gu enin,Beleskey,Brookbank,Beauchemin,Blake,Cogliano, Lydman,Sbisa and Hiller

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