Yes that is true but one is without a question 'a workhorse', so to fill all the gaps you dont know about the other guy with the most positive attributes, course youll get a better player
Named the BEST faceoff, best defensive player and penalty killer. We're not just talking about average to good
Look up those OHL coaches poll's from the 2008-2009 season. Cody Hodgson was all over the leaderboard in these same categories. In the NHL he looks below average in all of them. Another thing to note, is that Friesen was one of, if not the oldest player in the OHL this past year. It was his 5th year in the league, he turned 21 during the season. It's no shock he'd be more developed at the nuiances of the game than his 16 and 17 year old peers.
Another thing, those poll's are broken down by conference. Nothing to sneeze at, but the entire OHL isn't the sample size for this poll, it is the OHL's eastern conference.
Please dont take this as knocking Friesen, I have hopes for him to be an NHL player...just go look at some of the Prospects threads from this season. I just have tempered expectations.
I wouldn't be surprised if he makes the club in the next 2-3 years, but I also wouldn't bank on it.
there's also a question of ice time. friesen was never expected to be the scorer on his team, even as an overager. mallet kinda took that job because his team was garbage
how much PP time was mallet getting over friesen? what were friesens zone starts like? are we comparing the offensive output of friesens overager year vs mallet or his remarkably similar year last year?
it'll be interesting to see how they come out for TC and AHL duty since they're both pretty much guaranteed a spot
Funny both of their teams made their league's final series'.
Not sure where you are getting this crap team, BS.
Friesen was the 2nd line center, played oodles of important minutes for the Ice Dogs all year.
Look up those OHL coaches poll's from the 2008-2009 season. Cody Hodgson was all over the leaderboard in these same categories. In the NHL he looks below average in all of them. Another thing to note, is that Friesen was one of, if not the oldest player in the OHL this past year. It was his 5th year in the league, he turned 21 during the season. It's no shock he'd be more developed at the nuiances of the game than his 16 and 17 year old peers.
Another thing, those poll's are broken down by conference. Nothing to sneeze at, but the entire OHL isn't the sample size for this poll, it is the OHL's eastern conference.
Please dont take this as knocking Friesen, I have hopes for him to be an NHL player...just go look at some of the Prospects threads from this season. I just have tempered expectations.
I wouldn't be surprised if he makes the club in the next 2-3 years, but I also wouldn't bank on it.
Cody hodgson is smart and was a good defensive player, the only thing stopping him is the speed of the nhl and strength actually, friesen having no issue with either. Hodgson has a wicked stick and great vision, which is why he was a good defensive player, you add strength and speed to hodgsons game and he's a good defensive player in the nhl too
Yes that is true but one is without a question 'a workhorse', so to fill all the gaps you dont know about the other guy with the most positive attributes, course youll get a better player
Named the BEST faceoff and best defensive player. We're not just talking about average to good
Your problem is that you are trying to make an argument out of an agreement, when the evidence of agreement is plain on the page to be read if you care to pay the courtesy of actually reading it.
You also seem to want to make a zero-sum game out of the good luck we have in drafting both of these players. Again, reading posts above would help.
Long ago I remarked here on the good stuff about Friesen you've just quoted. I guess I have to spell it out: the fact that Friesen has some excellent qualities does not diminish the excellent qualities that Mallet apparently has. It's win-win. And a guy who in a top scorer with a very good plus-minus who hits and fights is very likely to be considered to be a workhorse. In other words, a guy like Mallet or Friesen.
Your problem is that you are trying to make an argument out of an agreement, when the evidence of agreement is plain on the page to be read if you care to pay the courtesy of actually reading it.
You also seem to want to make a zero-sum game out of the good luck we have in drafting both of these players. Again, reading posts above would help.
Long ago I remarked here on the good stuff about Friesen you've just quoted. I guess I have to spell it out: the fact that Friesen has some excellent qualities does not diminish the excellent qualities that Mallet apparently has. It's win-win. And a guy who in a top scorer with a very good plus-minus who hits and fights is very likely to be considered to be a workhorse. In other words, a guy like Mallet or Friesen.
Problem is? Make an argument? Dude calm the eff down. First of all, i wasn't arguing.
Secondly i was quoting you because my post started off in response to your post, the whole post wasn't directed at you
The only part directed at you was
"Yes that is true but one is without a question 'a workhorse', so to fill all the gaps you dont know about the other guy with the most positive attributes, course youll get a better player "
and i was just messing around, hence the emoticon
the rest was a general info for the board. figured you would have known that considering your posts didn't really contain the opposite view. lol
Last edited by pseudonymous01: 07-25-2012 at 06:29 PM.
A lot of you seem to be high on McNally, any particular reason? He plays in a weaker league and seemed to be on the same level as Jeremy Price.
if i recall, my best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this coach who knows this guy who's going with the girl who saw McNally has some oozing offensive potential from an article few years back...I need someone to back me up. However, i have not heard anything about J.Price ever since he was drafted..
there's also a question of ice time. friesen was never expected to be the scorer on his team, even as an overager. mallet kinda took that job because his team was garbage
how much PP time was mallet getting over friesen? what were friesens zone starts like? are we comparing the offensive output of friesens overager year vs mallet or his remarkably similar year last year?
Who cares? It's not as if he lucked his way into it Oilers style where he could just focus on offense at the expense of everything else. He carried his team deep into the playoffs while playing great two-way game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudonymous01
Cody hodgson is smart and was a good defensive player, the only thing stopping him is the speed of the nhl and strength actually, friesen having no issue with either. Hodgson has a wicked stick and great vision, which is why he was a good defensive player, you add strength and speed to hodgsons game and he's a good defensive player in the nhl too
Sorry but Hodgson had absolutely no clue what was going on defensively in the AHL or the NHL. I don't know what you're watching if you think it's just his speed and strength that's preventing him from being a good two-way player.
Who cares? It's not as if he lucked his way into it Oilers style where he could just focus on offense at the expense of everything else. He carried his team deep into the playoffs while playing great two-way game.
Sorry but Hodgson had absolutely no clue what was going on defensively in the AHL or the NHL. I don't know what you're watching if you think it's just his speed and strength that's preventing him from being a good two-way player.
i wasn't talking about pro. when he was talked about as a good defensive player, it wasn't in the ahl or nhl
and there is 0 doubt in my mind his lack of being a good two way player is due to strength and speed
you dont think he was a good two way player in junior before the leagues got tougher and faster? you think the people evaluating him were completely wrong? i dont
Sorry but Hodgson had absolutely no clue what was going on defensively in the AHL or the NHL. I don't know what you're watching if you think it's just his speed and strength that's preventing him from being a good two-way player.
O_O
ok i need to stop getting you confused with the guys that know what they're talking about, my bad
ok i need to stop getting you confused with the guys that know what they're talking about, my bad
I'll ignore your insults and get back to the actual point. Hodgson had bad coverage both in the AHL and the NHL and it had nothing to do with his speed or strength. Perhaps it had to do with effort, I don't know. What I do know is that he was regularly out of position and often Hansen had to bail him out by taking on centres duties in the defensive end. In the AHL he didn't even attempt to play defense on most nights.
I'll ignore your insults and get back to the actual point. Hodgson had bad coverage both in the AHL and the NHL and it had nothing to do with his speed or strength. Perhaps it had to do with effort, I don't know. What I do know is that he was regularly out of position and often Hansen had to bail him out by taking on centres duties in the defensive end. In the AHL he didn't even attempt to play defense on most nights.
Possibly hes aware of his limitations. You can push a player your hardest and waste all your energy but when the guys are bigger and stronger and faster, not alot you can do, better save your energy for your strengths
He's a center, regardless of his limitations he has to try his best to perform his duties otherwise he's a liability. As it is he was a poor possession player and put the team on its heels often times due to either a conscious lack of effort or due to not yet understanding defensive game at the pro level.
He's a center, regardless of his limitations he has to try his best to perform his duties otherwise he's a liability. As it is he was a poor possession player and put the team on its heels often times due to either a conscious lack of effort or due to not yet understanding defensive game at the pro level.
Well i think with age, comes strength and i think that can help alot in his defensive game at the pro level so i have no question he'll become a better defensive player. Men's strength typically peaks at 30 or so, so i've read.
He most likely has performed to the best of his abilities. If hes not strong or fast, there is nothing he can do about that , other than be the best offensive player you can be and play as good as you can defensively. Which im sure he was doing
Except for Gaunce, all of the prospects already ranked have actually played (if only briefly) in the AHL. So by that logic, Cannata is next.
Forgot about Rodin . . .
Speaking of forgetting, it's odd or sad how we've dismissed our recent higher picks Grenier and Honzik.
Grenier and Honzik are both crap and neither is likely to be signed by next June.
As for this poll, voted McNally who clearly has an impact skillset from the blueline and a very high upside. A long-term project but has to be considered the most skilled guy you can vote for at this point (by a fair margin).
Cannata will win this, but I'm always leery of ranking goalies highly until we've seen them over an extended AHL stretch. If he perfoms well this season, I'll rank him well up next time.
ok i need to stop getting you confused with the guys that know what they're talking about, my bad
Ummm Tiranis is actually right on this. With Hodgson, Dzone play came as a secondary concern... It was more about effort, attention to detail, and reads than anything else. Consider what Wellwood was able to do defensively, per advanced stats, while not being big or fast - and you'll get a sense how far Hodgson was from doing the same.
Ummm Tiranis is actually right on this. With Hodgson, Dzone play came as a secondary concern... It was more about effort, attention to detail, and reads than anything else. Consider what Wellwood was able to do defensively, per advanced stats, while not being big or fast - and you'll get a sense how far Hodgson was from doing the same.
Not only is he right, he's also watched a lot more Wolves/Moose than the majority on here.
What exactly does Friesen have on Mallet? He's older, smaller, not nearly as good offensively, not much better defensively, less tough and not a fighter.
You're giving little credit to Mallet because he was just drafted and too much credit to Friesen simply because he's gone through our system. There is no doubt as to who the better player was this season: Mallet.
With the Wolves.
Well, Clearly you know more about Mallet than everyone else, because the kid was went undrafted two years in a row, and finally got drafted as an over ager. Also he is basically un ranked and nobody knew this guy. Odd when, a guy in the same situation Tanner Pearson was high on a lot of lists.
Admittedly, not knowing anything about the kid. He's somehow better than Alex Friesen or close defensively, despite Friesen winning defensive awards? Could Mallet be better? Well, with size and physicality? For sure but Over ager or not, I don't think this random tough kid is suddenly better than an accomplished forward. Close defensively? I really doubt it but hey, who am i to say. If Mallet is close to Friesen defensively, and everything you say he is, he'd likely get a shot at the big leagues. Though, beforehand, I'd say he'd had a outside chance because he's physical mature and the Canucks are desperate for toughness. If he is everything you say he is, he'll make the team..cause Dale Weiss has been okay, but It wouldn't take much to take him out of a roster spot.
There's no way you can tell me, a physical, "feared" guy that is responsible in his own end with some skill isn't going to make the team as a grinder. If your telling me, this kid is going to get developmental time because he has the skills to be a top six forward, and he's not worth starting in the NHL if he isn't a top six, then your absolutely kidding me.
I'm thinking of a Kyle Clifford/Dwight King? Yeah? I don't know, you tell me. If it wasn't for Friesens size, we'd be talking a hell lot more about this kid.
Cody hodgson is smart and was a good defensive player, the only thing stopping him is the speed of the nhl and strength actually, friesen having no issue with either. Hodgson has a wicked stick and great vision, which is why he was a good defensive player, you add strength and speed to hodgsons game and he's a good defensive player in the nhl too
A good defensive player in Jr... when no one plays defense. In the AHL he was bad in his own end and the same result in the NHL. It wasn't just speed/size but rather positioning was poor too. Of course his defensive game can be develop... question is will his "camp" allow it.
Well, Clearly you know more about Mallet than everyone else, because the kid was went undrafted two years in a row, and finally got drafted as an over ager. Also he is basically un ranked and nobody knew this guy. Odd when, a guy in the same situation Tanner Pearson was high on a lot of lists.
Admittedly, not knowing anything about the kid. He's somehow better than Alex Friesen or close defensively, despite Friesen winning defensive awards? Could Mallet be better? Well, with size and physicality? For sure but Over ager or not, I don't think this random tough kid is suddenly better than an accomplished forward. Close defensively? I really doubt it but hey, who am i to say. If Mallet is close to Friesen defensively, and everything you say he is, he'd likely get a shot at the big leagues. Though, beforehand, I'd say he'd had a outside chance because he's physical mature and the Canucks are desperate for toughness. If he is everything you say he is, he'll make the team..cause Dale Weiss has been okay, but It wouldn't take much to take him out of a roster spot.
There's no way you can tell me, a physical, "feared" guy that is responsible in his own end with some skill isn't going to make the team as a grinder. If your telling me, this kid is going to get developmental time because he has the skills to be a top six forward, and he's not worth starting in the NHL if he isn't a top six, then your absolutely kidding me.
I'm thinking of a Kyle Clifford/Dwight King? Yeah? I don't know, you tell me. If it wasn't for Friesens size, we'd be talking a hell lot more about this kid.
This was not Mallets over age year. Because of his birthdate he seems older. Next year would technically be his overage year but he has the size to play in the ahl. If he was drafted last year he still would have been to young to play in the NHL.
