I am not trying to get people all fired up. I just want to have a discussion about Ray Shero. I personally am not a huge fan of the guy. He continues to fail to bring in top 6 talent for Sid every season and it is getting old. The Pens just seem like they can never sign any of the big name free agents when they have cap space. You always here how well the team treats players, they have a top notch facility and a contending team. There is no excuse for Ray to continuously fail at signing respectable forwards in the offseason. Should I even go into how pathetic our forward prospects are. Eric Tangradi has been our best prospect, but the dude is gonna be 24 soon. Is he still a prospect? Beau Bennett has played in like half of the games for Denver the last 2 seasons.
As I said in the thread about that chooch we signed today, Shero came into a great situation. The core of the stanley cup winning team was already here. The Pens already had Crosby, Malkin, Scuderi, Letang drafted, #2 overall pick, Gogo drafted, Whitney (led to Koon, but it was Shero who signed Whitney to that awful contract), Orpik, Kennedy, Talbot, Fleury, etc etc. Shero did a very nice job at brining in complimentary players like Guerin and Gill, but that team won because of 71 and 87
Shero has made some fantastic trades; the Neal and Hossa deals were straight up robberies. He has made some pretty great trades, until the Michalek donation.
We are told that we have some great defensive prospects, but after the disappointments of Espisito, Caputi, Chris Bourque, Tangradi, etc I wont be convinced until these guys are in the NHL playing. It seems like our last true blue chip prospect to amount to anything was Letang, and hes played in over 350 games. Its been a LONG TIME. But that isnt all Shero's fault.
Shero's off season signings of low risk, LOW REWARD is tiring. How many more fringe nhl players ce an you take? He has some sick obsession with 4th liner garbage. Instead of signing 10 garbage players, sign one or 2 guys who dont suck. Its great to have depth, but not if Kennedy is playing on your 2nd line.
That is a brief summary of my opinion on Shero. Dont bash me because you disagree. Dont just say he won a cup either. If the Pens have another 1 and done playoffs, he has to be on the hot seat.
I think he might be the most overrated GM in the entire league and there seems to be a disturbing trend amongst many that want to almost worship him like a god. I don't like the style of team he wants to build, I don't like his style of players he has drafted. There has been enough of a time that has passed where you can rationally evaluate his drafts and he has produced a pretty dismal record in that regard as far as getting solid prospects with top 6 or top pairing ability. He gets a ton of credit for a cup winning team that was based off of the core group of players he inherited. We have now gone how many seasons since he has taken over and the very same problem exists in the farm still, there is no quality forward depth in the farm. Draft after draft this area is neglected and it leads us to be spurned by people like Parise when we absolutely NEED them since we have no internal solutions. We couldve gotten the highest rated forward on the board at the draft this year but instead we reach for another kind of Dman we already have tons of. I'd like for more people to seriously question him and not just blindly believe he craps gold.
Don't you question the creator of all that is good and Joe.
On a more serious note :
Yes Shero did inherit a good core, but for you to call him out on the Michalek trade? wa-ha-ha-haaaaaaaaaaaay to early for that, man. We don't know how that capspace is going to pan out, heck we might not untill next FA for all we know.
Ray Shero didn't pick Tangradi in the draft, he was part of the Whitney - Kunitz trade and was deemed to be a stud prospect at the time. Some of us (my self included) still believe that Tangradi will be a good player at NHL level, he just has to be used correctly. I.e not the fourth line, possibly not even the third on this team but definatley not fourth.
I can understand the frustation some people have about Tangradi but I want to call that out and call it blindeness. If you watch him (Tangradi) play and you have watched him play, then you will have seen how much he has progressed, especially the later part of last season, including the playoffs.
Shero has been on the team for what, 5 - 6 off-seasons? Hossa fell through, Jagr went ******, Parise went home. There haven't really been any stud FA signings available for him. He pulled the trigger on Hossa, Dupuis and Neal and got stud players. Shero him self is improving, he's obviously had a change of attitude with the signing of Vokoun and trading of Michalek and Staal, not taking back Asham, Sully and "old timers".
He sure does seem to be a more of a trader then a FA signer.
Yes, the lack of depth in forward prospect seem worrying but seemingly Shero has a plan and he's sticking to it. He got Niskanen and Neal for Goligoski, just imagine what he could do with all the prospects we have.
Beast of a GM. I agree that he needs to actually bring in talent for Sid but he's done great things otherwise. I can't think of a trade where he lost big time. Drafting Letang at 62nd Overall was a beastly move.
He is one of the best GM's in the league. The only better GM is Poile, IMO. Perhaps barely a hair ahead of Holland.
I have complete and utter faith in the man, and if he messes up, he learns from his mistakes. I also like that he is willing to take calculated risks, and is always looking to make a move, but that he never goes full Holmgren. His restraint and calmness (Staal fiasco) this offseason have also been impressive.
He has the respect of the Joes and has brought in two guys named Kunitz and Neal who are natural Top 6 guys. I think because Shero doesn't bring in a Neal every year people lose their perspective.
Whoever said Top 5 GM is right and I'd love to hear arguments for 5 other GMs who have proven themselves better from year to year. Holland is very good, Chiarelli is very good, Lombardi, Tallon... you could argue those guys are comparable over the last few years and maybe argue Chiarelli and Lombardi have been better. I can't look at anyone else over a period of 2-3 years and say "better than Ray".
Some GMs have had big years like Holmgren last summer but look where it got him. Sometimes being the crazy barn-storming GM doesn't really get you much beyond what you'd get with more conservative moves, especially if you have a great core already.
He has the respect of the Joes and has brought in two guys named Kunitz and Neal who are natural Top 6 guys. I think because Shero doesn't bring in a Neal every year people lose their perspective.
Whoever said Top 5 GM is right and I'd love to hear arguments for 5 other GMs who have proven themselves better from year to year. Holland is very good, Chiarelli is very good, Lombardi, Tallon... you could argue those guys are comparable over the last few years and maybe argue Chiarelli and Lombardi have been better. I can't look at anyone else over a period of 2-3 years and say "better than Ray".
Some GMs have had big years like Holmgren last summer but look where it got him. Sometimes being the crazy barn-storming GM doesn't really get you much beyond what you'd get with more conservative moves, especially if you have a great core already.
I have to believe it would be his protege, Poile. (for a floor team, they've done pretty amazing)
I'm not typing a novel as to why I believe Ray is a top 5 GM because my right hand is casted and I'm chickenpecking my keyboard with my left.
The Staal trade was amazing, Staal was as good as gone on 7/1/13 IMO. To get that kind of return is unbelievable.
The Neal trade, well, IMO we got the two best players in that deal.
Did the Martin/Michalek signings turn out? Absolutely not, but I believe Martin can, and will rebound this season and Michalek is off the books for a just as good right now player in Despres for much, much less.
Looking at our contracts, what's our most outrageous contract right now? Martin?
Martin was a UFA and that was a very fair deal on the open market that year.
I have to believe it would be his protege, Poile. (for a floor team, they've done pretty amazing)
You could make a case for Tallon, however.
Poile has done well / is right up there but he has a hard time getting offensive talents of any kind in there. Lots of 2nd line and tweener types, but obviously he has mastered the black art of stockpiling stud D and G.
all of his mistakes have been understandable, imo.
honestly the only thing i can think of off the top of my head that i don't like was the michalek trade. that one stings. the offseason obviously isnt over, so its early to pass judgement, but that trade seems fairly indefensible.
also slightly ot, but i remember hearing that when craig patrick was gm, the penguin offices didnt have internet access. think about that for a second.
When's the last time he sat on his laurels when the team needed change?
He is a very clever GM. He is constantly improving, too.
Last poor draft? Basically all of them because there is very little of the productive members of the roster who are Shero Draftees. We still have little to nothing in the forward department in our cupboards and routinely have to be talking about deadline trades or big free agent signings instead of saying we have someone who's time it is. Speaking of which, notice how he seems to be slighted when he goes after big time FA's? Hossa, Jagr, Parise and Suter. He went all in on those and came out with none. What has his best free agent signing been? His major feather in his hat is the Neal/Goligoski trade and maybe to a lesser extent the Kunitz/Whitney trade which wouldve been better if Tangradi could turn into something. Lets not forget the Michelek trade that got us absolutely nothing, the Staal trade looks pretty bleak as well but I'll admit he had his hands tied there. The Hamhuis trade which yielded nothing but a bailout to our rival in Philly.
He's also currently sitting on his laurels where the team likely to start next season is going to be a worse team than what started last year.
