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Old
08-10-2012, 10:23 AM
  #551
Zip15
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
The Oilers are so happy with Gagner that they signed him to a one year deal.......there's no reason at all that they would ever trade him....
So a one-year deal now means that a guy isn't in your long-term plans? Even when the guy is still an RFA when it expires? Perhaps Edmonton wanted to give him either a long-term deal tying up several UFA years, or a deal that would leave him an RFA when it expired--you know, the same exact thing that Darcy does all the time. Maybe the parties couldn't agree on money for the UFA years, so they just tabled negotiations on a longer-term deal until next summer. Oh, and it's not like there are any CBA issues that may be clouding the waters, either.

If anything, the fact that they signed him to a deal that will expire while he's still under team control suggests he is very much in their plans.

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08-10-2012, 10:32 AM
  #552
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
So a one-year deal now means that a guy isn't in your long-term plans? Even when the guy is still an RFA when it expires? Perhaps Edmonton wanted to give him either a long-term deal tying up several UFA years, or a deal that would leave him an RFA when it expired--you know, the same exact thing that Darcy does all the time. Maybe the parties couldn't agree on money for the UFA years, so they just tabled negotiations on a longer-term deal until next summer. Oh, and it's not like there are any CBA issues that may be clouding the waters, either.

If anything, the fact that they signed him to a deal that will expire while he's still under team control suggests he is very much in their plans.
I have not seen a single Edmonton fan upset with the idea of trading him over on the trade forums. Frankly he is the most valuable option they have to make an upgrade for their team. Similar to Sekera for us. Your just talking in circles. Trading Gagner would be a purely hockey move. ESPECIALLY for a Dman. Somebody to bridge the gap and allow them to take extra time with some of their very young defensemen that they have in the system. They believe that Horcroff is their answer at 2C moving Gagner to 3C. Sound eerily similar to the situation that Hodgeson was in, when we traded for him from Vancouver. Skilled young center, who can play top six, but is forced down into the 3rd line. Note that Pittsburgh traded Stall away from a similar situation, and the previously mentioned Vancouver. It makes nothing but sense for Edmonton to make a deal for Gagner to fill in a hole at another position.

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08-10-2012, 11:01 AM
  #553
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
I have not seen a single Edmonton fan upset with the idea of trading him over on the trade forums.
And we all know fans are the final authority on what makes sense for their teams. Most Sabres fans would've traded Stafford for peanuts after the Bruins playoff series. That would've been a smart move.

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Frankly he is the most valuable option they have to make an upgrade for their team. Similar to Sekera for us.
The bolded is the key. You still haven't explained how making a hole at 2C to add more wingers like Stafford or Adam to a team chock full of wingers upgrades their roster in a practical sense. Are they hoarding wingers? It doesn't make any sense.

Sure, I could see them moving Gagner for an actual upgrade to their roster. What you're proposing weakens them down the middle, adds to their wings, and makes little sense from an actual roster management perspective, especially when one considers the chemistry Gagner was developing with Hall over the final few months of last season.

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Your just talking in circles.
Apparently rational points spin you around in circles.

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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
Trading Gagner would be a purely hockey move. ESPECIALLY for a Dman. Somebody to bridge the gap and allow them to take extra time with some of their very young defensemen that they have in the system.
So now someone like Leopold is the key to the deal? Better idea for Edmonton: hold on to Gagner, and sign someone as good or better than Leo like Rozsival for nothing more than money. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
They believe that Horcroff is their answer at 2C moving Gagner to 3C.
They're effectively a 2A and 2B, and play very different roles. Horcoff is their defensive horse, playing a high level of competition and getting a lot of defensive zone starts. Gagner plays above-average competition, but gets sheltered zone starts, and will likely play a lot with Hall. Gagner is a nice midpoint between Horcoff and RNH, who requires a ton of offensive zone starts while he learns the defensive side of the game.

Thus, again, trading Gagner weakens them down the middle. Belanger is coming off a terrible year, and shouldn't be expected to carry the mail as the 3C.

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Sound eerily similar to the situation that Hodgeson was in, when we traded for him from Vancouver. Skilled young center, who can play top six, but is forced down into the 3rd line.
No it doesn't. Hodgson was playing just over 13 mins/game in Vancouver. Vancouver bungled his back injury and there was clearly some acrimony between Hodgson, Hodgson's connections, and Vancouver management, so there were other issues present there. Gagner plays over 17 mins/game and there's no known acrimony between him and management. Cody may have also (justifiably) believed he wasn't going to displace Henrik or Kesler as the top-6 centers in Vancouver. Meanwhile, Gagner receives about the same ES+PP TOI as Horcoff and RNH, with the only difference in their respective ice times stemming from Horcoff's time on the PK. Hodgson was playing on Vancouver's third line with garbage. Gagner will likely start the season with Hall and Eberle.

Gagner is getting opportunity in Edmonton, unlike Hodgson in Vancouver.

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Note that Pittsburgh traded Stall away from a similar situation, and the previously mentioned Vancouver. .
Pittsburgh traded Staal because he just turned down a monster extension and was going to be UFA the following summer (thereby creating a huge in-season distraction if he was going to be a pending UFA), wanted to step out of Crosby's and Malkin's shadow, and wanted to play with his brother(s). I sincerely doubt that Gagner is concerned about stepping out of Shawn Horcoff's shadow, nor does Gagner play behind two of the top-5 players in the NHL. Does Sam Gagner have a brother on another roster that I'm not aware of?


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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
It makes nothing but sense for Edmonton to make a deal for Gagner to fill in a hole at another position
But the deal you proposed makes zero sense for the reasons already stated. Edmonton isn't going to weaken its center position to add more second line wingers or Luke Adam, or add a guy like Leopold when they could sign someone with similar value in UFA.

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08-10-2012, 11:08 AM
  #554
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I was just thinking about this rumored Gagner trade and this popped into my head. Anaheim was rumored to want a top 6 center earlier this offseason, correct? I remember Roy was mentioned in some Ryan rumors at one point. What if the Sabres are trying to add that young top 6 center Anaheim covets? Obviously some minor pieces might be added to these deals to even them up, but what about...

To Buffalo: Gagner
To Edmonton: Sekera

To Anaheim: Gagner, Stafford, and a 1st
To Buffalo: Ryan

Or am I reading too much into this? Hey it's Friday, I'm bored.

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08-10-2012, 11:16 AM
  #555
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Originally Posted by Dabs21Nike View Post
I was just thinking about this rumored Gagner trade and this popped into my head. Anaheim was rumored to want a top 6 center earlier this offseason, correct? I remember Roy was mentioned in some Ryan rumors at one point. What if the Sabres are trying to add that young top 6 center Anaheim covets? Obviously some minor pieces might be added to these deals to even them up, but what about...

To Buffalo: Gagner
To Edmonton: Sekera

To Anaheim: Gagner, Stafford, and a 1st
To Buffalo: Ryan

Or am I reading too much into this? Hey it's Friday, I'm bored.
If you're Anaheim and you so highly covet Gagner, why not just deal with Edmonton directly and cut out the middle man (Buffalo)? Just to get Drew Stafford? Heck, if I'm Anaheim, I'd try to work out a deal with Edmonton around Gagner + EDM 2013 1st + something else like Potter/Klefbom.

Edmonton and Anaheim have swung many deals over the years, as well, so there's some comfort there between those two organizations.

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08-10-2012, 11:18 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
And we all know fans are the final authority on what makes sense for their teams. Most Sabres fans would've traded Stafford for peanuts after the Bruins playoff series. That would've been a smart move.



The bolded is the key. You still haven't explained how making a hole at 2C to add more wingers like Stafford or Adam to a team chock full of wingers upgrades their roster in a practical sense. Are they hoarding wingers? It doesn't make any sense.

Sure, I could see them moving Gagner for an actual upgrade to their roster. What you're proposing weakens them down the middle, adds to their wings, and makes little sense from an actual roster management perspective, especially when one considers the chemistry Gagner was developing with Hall over the final few months of last season.



Apparently rational points spin you around in circles.



So now someone like Leopold is the key to the deal? Better idea for Edmonton: hold on to Gagner, and sign someone as good or better than Leo like Rozsival for nothing more than money. Problem solved.



They're effectively a 2A and 2B, and play very different roles. Horcoff is their defensive horse, playing a high level of competition and getting a lot of defensive zone starts. Gagner plays above-average competition, but gets sheltered zone starts, and will likely play a lot with Hall. Gagner is a nice midpoint between Horcoff and RNH, who requires a ton of offensive zone starts while he learns the defensive side of the game.

Thus, again, trading Gagner weakens them down the middle. Belanger is coming off a terrible year, and shouldn't be expected to carry the mail as the 3C.



No it doesn't. Hodgson was playing just over 13 mins/game in Vancouver. Vancouver bungled his back injury and there was clearly some acrimony between Hodgson, Hodgson's connections, and Vancouver management, so there were other issues present there. Gagner plays over 17 mins/game and there's no known acrimony between him and management. Cody may have also (justifiably) believed he wasn't going to displace Henrik or Kesler as the top-6 centers in Vancouver. Meanwhile, Gagner receives about the same ES+PP TOI as Horcoff and RNH, with the only difference in their respective ice times stemming from Horcoff's time on the PK. Hodgson was playing on Vancouver's third line with garbage. Gagner will likely start the season with Hall and Eberle.

Gagner is getting opportunity in Edmonton, unlike Hodgson in Vancouver.



Pittsburgh traded Staal because he just turned down a monster extension and was going to be UFA the following summer (thereby creating a huge in-season distraction if he was going to be a pending UFA), wanted to step out of Crosby's and Malkin's shadow, and wanted to play with his brother(s). I sincerely doubt that Gagner is concerned about stepping out of Shawn Horcoff's shadow, nor does Gagner play behind two of the top-5 players in the NHL. Does Sam Gagner have a brother on another roster that I'm not aware of?




But the deal you proposed makes zero sense for the reasons already stated. Edmonton isn't going to weaken its center position to add more second line wingers or Luke Adam, or add a guy like Leopold when they could sign someone with similar value in UFA.
Secondly your argument boils down to "They won't trade Gagner because they won't trade gagner". That is talking in circles. You have yet to give a true reason as to why not.

Third: Gagner IS their 3C right now. Horcroff is their 2C. Ask any Edmonton Fan. They are very high on horcroff. Gagner is getting the boot to 3C, and was the one that wanted a long term deal, but the team didn't. He eventually cracked and took the deal.

Fourth: Leopold is a very good player to have in the situation in Edmonton. They have a bunch of very young defensive prospects, who are close to NHL ready. I'm using him in my proposals because that is the rumored proposal. Leopold + Adam for Gagner + 3rd. I didn't make it up, I heard it from somwhere else. Having a guy like Leopold allows them to slow their prospects down and not force one into the NHL, on a contract that can easily be moved at the deadline if one shows he is ready to take the next step. He is capable of big minutes, and can put up points if needed, plus another Veteran presance in a VERY young locker room is never a bad idea.


As for FA's if it is hard for buffalo to attract them, how difficult must it be for a team that has had how many lottery picks in a row? Not to mention by the time the big more attractive teams finish with the FAs Leopold would probably be a much better option then a lot of the FAs that are available.


Last edited by Chainshot: 08-10-2012 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Cut it out
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08-10-2012, 11:23 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
If you're Anaheim and you so highly covet Gagner, why not just deal with Edmonton directly and cut out the middle man (Buffalo)? Just to get Drew Stafford? Heck, if I'm Anaheim, I'd try to work out a deal with Edmonton around Gagner + EDM 2013 1st + something else like Potter/Klefbom.

Edmonton and Anaheim have swung many deals over the years, as well, so there's some comfort there between those two organizations.
Maybe Anaheim isn't willing to deal the young defenseman that Edmonton reportedly is looking for. Sekera could be a nice piece for Edmonton moving forward. I doubt Edmonton has any interest in Ryan with all the young wingers they have acquired recently. There's a lot of variables that could lead to a three way deal. Again I was just trying to piece things together from all the rumors that have been floating around.

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08-10-2012, 11:35 AM
  #558
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By the way, I founf this on the oilers board in regards to why Leopold makes sense for the Oilers:

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Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
I think Leopold actually makes more sense for the Oilers than Regehr anyway! Leopold is more mobile and he has a better first pass out of the zone which is what the Oilers were missing last season.

If he becomes available from Buffalo, I really hope Edmonton makes a call.

Petry-Smid
Whitney-Leopold
Schultz-Schultz

That's not too bad if Whitney stays healthy.

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08-10-2012, 11:38 AM
  #559
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Secondly your argument boils down to "They won't trade Gagner because they won't trade gagner". That is talking in circles. You have yet to give a true reason as to why not.
Are you ****ing kidding me? Have you read nothing I've written? I've given you several reasons why they won't trade Sam Gagner for Stafford and/or Adam and Leopold.

1) They're weakening their center position unnecessarily to add more on the wings--that they don't need because their wings are already strong.

2) They don't need Leo to be a bridge with guys like Rozsival still available.

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Third: Gagner IS their 3C right now. Horcroff is their 2C. Ask any Edmonton Fan. They are very high on horcroff. Gagner is getting the boot to 3C, and was the one that wanted a long term deal, but the team didn't. He eventually cracked and took the deal.
The same Horcoff that is constantly in their cap dump deals? Yeah, Oilers fans are so high on Shawn Horcoff. You're getting so wrapped up in "2C" and "3C" labels. They're utilized differently. Horcoff is their defensive horse, and Gagner gets more offensive zone starts.

And given that most Oilers fans expect Gagner will start the season centering Hall, Gagner is no more a "3C" than Hall is a third-line winger.

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Fourth: Leopold is a very good player to have in the situation in Edmonton. They have a bunch of very young defensive prospects, who are close to NHL ready.
Again, if they have to give up Gagner in a deal for Leopold, why not just keep Gagner and sign Rozsival or Colaiacovo.

Gagner + Rozsival/Colaiacovo >> Leopold and Adam, but no Gagner

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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
I'm using him in my proposals because that is the rumored proposal. Leopold + Adam for Gagner + 3rd. I didn't make it up, I heard it from somwhere else.
So you're passing off unsubstantiated rumors that you "heard" as rumors that actually out there. Oooooh, I'm reporting you to the mods, as I'm sure you're aware that this is against site rules.

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Having a guy like Leopold allows them to slow their prospects down and not force one into the NHL, on a contract that can easily be moved at the deadline if one shows he is ready to take the next step. He is capable of big minutes, and can put up points if needed, plus another Veteran presance in a VERY young locker room is never a bad idea.
Why not just sign Rozsival to a one-year deal then?

____

I get that you're trying to come up with new and creative ways for Anaheim to gift us Bobby Ryan without having to give up the players we'd likely have to give up to actually net Bobby Ryan--some combo of Hodgson/Ennis, McNabb/Foligno, plus pick(s)--but Edmonton is not going to do Leopold/Adam for Sam Gagner and a pick.


Last edited by Chainshot: 08-10-2012 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Cut it out
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Old
08-10-2012, 11:38 AM
  #560
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First off cool it with the personal attacks I'm not coming in here taking shots at you, am I? So instead of dumbing a discussion down with insults (That I will report next time) you keep it respectful.
you know you lost the argument, when this is your first reply

Quote:
Secondly your argument boils down to "They won't trade Gagner because they won't trade gagner". That is talking in circles. You have yet to give a true reason as to why not.
no it doesn't. you have a reading comprehension issue.
zip's argument is spot on.
1. trading gagner in the proposed type deals weakens them at center
2. they have plenty of depth on the wing
3. leopold is the type of upgrade they could make without weakening theems;ves at center



Quote:
Third: Gagner IS their 3C right now. Horcroff is their 2C. Ask any Edmonton Fan. They are very high on horcroff. Gagner is getting the boot to 3C, and was the one that wanted a long term deal, but the team didn't. He eventually cracked and took the deal.
mostly conjecture on your part.

Gagner's linemates were Hemsky and Hall

Zip is absolutely right... Gagner is going to get the secondary scoring line minutes/shifts... and Horcoff is going to get the heavy defensive shifts

you need to get away from this 2c vs 3c stuff...

Drury vs Roy who was 2c/3c?

Briere=RNH
Drury=Horcoff
Roy=Gagner


Quote:
Fourth: Leopold is a very good player to have in the situation in Edmonton. They have a bunch of very young defensive prospects, who are close to NHL ready. I'm using him in my proposals because that is the rumored proposal. Leopold + Adam for Gagner + 3rd. I didn't make it up, I heard it from somwhere else. Having a guy like Leopold allows them to slow their prospects down and not force one into the NHL, on a contract that can easily be moved at the deadline if one shows he is ready to take the next step. He is capable of big minutes, and can put up points if needed, plus another Veteran presance in a VERY young locker room is never a bad idea.
It's a stupid proposal... the person who made it up is dumb

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08-10-2012, 11:40 AM
  #561
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By the way, I founf this on the oilers board in regards to why Leopold makes sense for the Oilers:
You know what makes more sense than Leo or Regehr for Edmonton? Saving the asset and signing someone like Rozsival or Colaiacovo in UFA.

BTW, why do you take what Edmonton posters say as gospel or what their organization is actually looking to do? Could you imagine some Oilers fans cherry-picking posts from some of our posters?

"OMG, a Buffalo fan would be happy to trade Drew Stafford middling prospect and a pick!"

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08-10-2012, 11:42 AM
  #562
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By the way, I founf this on the oilers board in regards to why Leopold makes sense for the Oilers:
Yeah, that was in response to my posts over there. I could see Leopold being of interest to the Oil and also seems likely to be a guy Regier is willing to move at this point since he has some options for replacement in the near-term. I don't know if they're willing to move Gagner at this point or how that might work with Buffalo's interests in Ryan and Anaheim's supposed wishes for a return. But they may be willing to move Belanger and that would give the Sabres some insurance in the 3/4 pivot role rather than having it all on the youngsters and new draftees.

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08-10-2012, 11:47 AM
  #563
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No it doesn't. Hodgson was playing just over 13 mins/game in Vancouver. Vancouver bungled his back injury and there was clearly some acrimony between Hodgson, Hodgson's connections, and Vancouver management, so there were other issues present there. Gagner plays over 17 mins/game and there's no known acrimony between him and management. Cody may have also (justifiably) believed he wasn't going to displace Henrik or Kesler as the top-6 centers in Vancouver. Meanwhile, Gagner receives about the same ES+PP TOI as Horcoff and RNH, with the only difference in their respective ice times stemming from Horcoff's time on the PK. Hodgson was playing on Vancouver's third line with garbage. Gagner will likely start the season with Hall and Eberle.
Now now now, Hansen and Higgins/Malhotra isn't a good as Hall and Eberle, but they're not garbage.

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08-10-2012, 11:48 AM
  #564
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Yeah, that was in response to my posts over there. I could see Leopold being of interest to the Oil and also seems likely to be a guy Regier is willing to move at this point since he has some options for replacement in the near-term. I don't know if they're willing to move Gagner at this point or how that might work with Buffalo's interests in Ryan and Anaheim's supposed wishes for a return. But they may be willing to move Belanger and that would give the Sabres some insurance in the 3/4 pivot role rather than having it all on the youngsters and new draftees.
Now a deal around Belanger for Leopold, with Edmonton adding something, is a more reasonable premise for a deal. Buffalo would have to believe Belanger can bounce back and/or Edmonton was just a bad fit for him. But, if nothing else, Belanger would give them another faceoff specialist (along with Ott) and add some speed to bottom-6.

I'd still prefer Dom Moore, of course, which would allow us to hold Leo until the deadline, but I wouldn't despise such a deal.

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08-10-2012, 11:50 AM
  #565
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Now now now, Hansen and Higgins/Malhotra isn't a good as Hall and Eberle, but they're not garbage.
You are correct, and I probably overstated my point, but the point remains that Gagner is receiving more of an opportunity to succeed in Edmonton than Cody was receiving in Vancouver, thus making the Hodgson/Gagner comparison a poor one. I think we can all agree with that.

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08-10-2012, 11:53 AM
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You are correct, and I probably overstated my point, but the point remains that Gagner is receiving more of an opportunity to succeed in Edmonton than Cody was receiving in Vancouver, thus making the Hodgson/Gagner comparison a poor one. I think we can all agree with that.
I don't think Gagner will solve any problems we have though.

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08-10-2012, 11:55 AM
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Now a deal around Belanger for Leopold, with Edmonton adding something, is a more reasonable premise for a deal. Buffalo would have to believe Belanger can bounce back and/or Edmonton was just a bad fit for him. But, if nothing else, Belanger would give them another faceoff specialist (along with Ott) and add some speed to bottom-6.

I'd still prefer Dom Moore, of course, which would allow us to hold Leo until the deadline, but I wouldn't despise such a deal.
I'd prefer Moore as well and that could maximize Leo's value for later (or allow Jordan to be that catch-all for whatever minutes Ruff needs in whatever situation he needs for the rest of the year). There are a lot of options for either team to mull over. Neither really has to make a move.

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08-10-2012, 11:57 AM
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I don't think Gagner will solve any problems we have though.
Fair enough, and I wasn't arguing that point one way or another. I was merely contending that Edmonton wouldn't do the proposed deals.

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08-10-2012, 12:04 PM
  #569
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I don't think Gagner will solve any problems we have though.
It doesn't solve the d-zone side of things, or size, or being hard to play against. It does play up the wet dreams of having a center available for Bobby Ryan though.

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08-10-2012, 12:10 PM
  #570
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I think Gagner would thrive in Buffalo as a secondary scorer or 3C (whatever you want to call it). With Hodgson's line and Ennis' line facing all the oppositions' top defensive/two-way players, Gagner could find success much like Roy did behind Briere and Drury from 05-07.

That being said, I don't want him one bit.

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08-10-2012, 12:13 PM
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Are you ****ing kidding me? Have you read nothing I've written? I've given you several reasons why they won't trade Sam Gagner for Stafford and/or Adam and Leopold.

1) They're weakening their center position unnecessarily to add more on the wings--that they don't need because their wings are already strong.

2) They don't need Leo to be a bridge with guys like Rozsival still available.



The same Horcoff that is constantly in their cap dump deals? Yeah, Oilers fans are so high on Shawn Horcoff. You're getting so wrapped up in "2C" and "3C" labels. They're utilized differently. Horcoff is their defensive horse, and Gagner gets more offensive zone starts.

And given that most Oilers fans expect Gagner will start the season centering Hall, Gagner is no more a "3C" than Hall is a third-line winger.



Again, if they have to give up Gagner in a deal for Leopold, why not just keep Gagner and sign Rozsival or Colaiacovo.

Gagner + Rozsival/Colaiacovo >> Leopold and Adam, but no Gagner



So you're passing off unsubstantiated rumors that you "heard" as rumors that actually out there. Oooooh, I'm reporting you to the mods, as I'm sure you're aware that this is against site rules.



Why not just sign Rozsival to a one-year deal then?

____

I get that you're trying to come up with new and creative ways for Anaheim to gift us Bobby Ryan without having to give up the players we'd likely have to give up to actually net Bobby Ryan--some combo of Hodgson/Ennis, McNabb/Foligno, plus pick(s)--but Edmonton is not going to do Leopold/Adam for Sam Gagner and a pick.

I never mentioned bringing stafford into a deal, YOU did. That being said, (though not what I was talking about) Edmonton has been said to be interested in Stafford for a few years now. Also Adam is still considered a center by some. Just like Ennis is still considered a winger. Just because that's where they ended last year, doesn't mean they will be there forever. So depending on their view, Luke Adam can be a desirable piece for them.

As for the leopold vs FA thing, why trade for a player you want when you can sign sombody else in FA? If that were the case 100% of the time Trades would happen much less often. If a team wants a guy they will trade for THAT guy. Its not that big of a stretch to say that maybe edmonton wants leopold.


Also Its not an unsubstantiated rumor, it is a take on a rumor posted on a rumor website that is approoved by the staff here. Which ISN'T against any rule that I have seen.


The Bobby Ryan thing was a second suggestion. I have been supporting a trade for Gagner since I joined the site. Go back and look. I like gagner, and making ideas for trades is the point of this thread. Gagner is also a 3C that this team could put in, that would make much more sense then relying on a rookie draft pick to make the team, or settling for Leino at center instead, which most can agree is a bad idea.

That being said, the bobby ryan part was just something that popped into my head seeing as Gagner would be a good piece that fits ANA's needs, and ANA doesn't have much that suits Edmontons needs.


Last edited by Chainshot: 08-10-2012 at 12:17 PM. Reason: Cut it out.
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08-10-2012, 12:17 PM
  #572
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Enough with the personal commentary. If you have a beef with a post, report it.

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08-10-2012, 12:30 PM
  #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
I never mentioned bringing stafford into a deal, YOU did. That being said, (though not what I was talking about) Edmonton has been said to be interested in Stafford for a few years now.
And the veracity of that alleged interest may be questioned, given that it was seemingly premised on little more than Stafford's relative was an Oiler employee--and has since left that organization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
Also Adam is still considered a center by some.
By whom? They moved him back to wing in Rochester. He played wing at Dev Camp. Most logical people would say the weight of the evidence suggests that he's a wing. Say nothing for his lack of footspeed and defensive awareness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
Just like Ennis is still considered a winger. Just because that's where they ended last year, doesn't mean they will be there forever. So depending on their view, Luke Adam can be a desirable piece for them.
I think many accept that Ennis will be a center going forward, though I do question everyone penciling him in as a 1C. If Adam was more of a playmaker, made others around him better, or had more of the qualities mentioned above (at least average speed, defensive awareness), I could see NHL organizations believing Luke may have a future at center. But his strengths (shot, dirty goals) lend himself to a future on he wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
As for the leopold vs FA thing, why trade for a player you want when you can sign sombody else in FA? If that were the case 100% of the time Trades would happen much less often. If a team wants a guy they will trade for THAT guy. Its not that big of a stretch to say that maybe edmonton wants leopold.
That Edmonton maybe wants Leopold wasn't your argument. That may be entirely possible. What I am saying is that it makes little sense for Edmonton to jettison Gagner in order to get Leopold (and Adam). If the opportunity cost of acquiring Leo is losing Gagner, that's a bad deal for Edmonton, and they should sign someone from UFA.

I think you'd agree that it's harder to acquire a young, 45-point center approaching his prime than a 30+, jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none #4 defenseman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
It doesn't solve the d-zone side of things, or size, or being hard to play against. It does play up the wet dreams of having a center available for Bobby Ryan though.
Precisely. As I stated in my original post that set off this firestorm, much of this seems to be an end run around the Stafford + Adam + redundant asset for Ryan deals that many are finally accepting won't happen with Anaheim. So now we use flying and magic to acquire Gagner who we subsequently flip in a package for Ryan, but still only move out the same poopoo platter that we all know won't get the job done with Anaheim.


Last edited by Chainshot: 08-10-2012 at 02:18 PM. Reason: Cut it out
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08-10-2012, 12:32 PM
  #574
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
So, I heard the following yestarday afternoon:

To Edmonton:

Jordan Leopold
Luke Adam

To Buffalo:

Gagner
3rd Round pick



Sounds about fair IMO. Also leaves us a lot of assets to make a deal for Ryan (or rumor has it we are interested in statsny :puke: )

Maybe turn around to the ducks and offer:

To ANA

Gagner
Stafford
Pick

To Buffalo:
Bobby Ryan


Gives them a downgrade from Ryan to Stafford, But sends them the 2C the fans all say they need, along with a pick.


In Essance:

OUT:

Leopold
Adam
Stafford
Pick

In:
Ryan
3rd round pick
Buffalo wins pretty handily and it's just on the edge of plausible. I'd be pretty stoked by this.

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08-10-2012, 12:52 PM
  #575
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I don't like Leo for Belanger as the basis for a deal, unless we're somehow getting Smid. I also don't think Edmonton particularly values Jordan, especially because they have a trillion defensemen on the roster (Whitney, Schultz, Schultz, Smid, Sutton, Petry, Potter, Peckham) and three high picks in the pipeline pushing for spots.

If anything, I'd expect them to want to turn some of that depth into more proven bodies, and we're trying to do the same. If "Leopold for a defensive C" is a must, get Nashville or St. Louis on the phone.

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