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2012 Summer Olympics in London | Medal count in the 1st post

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Old
08-01-2012, 05:11 PM
  #251
hockeyaddict101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
Answer my question. If you were given the choice, that losing the first game hockey game in the playoffs meant you were given five extra powerplays in the remaining games, would you do it?

Similarly the badminton team had the option of winning and facing off the gold medal favourites or they could lose and face off against a much weaker opposition - I don't see one thing wrong with what they did.
No I would not.

In fact I have been in this situation. We had a soccer competition many years ago. Played a a high level.

If we would have lost the first game, we would have faced easier competition the rest of the way.

Didn't even consider it.

1. I am a competitor, I don't want to lose any time I take the field, or in any game.

2. It isn't ethical.

If our team had done so we would have deserved the same consequences as the badminton team. Ethics is part of ANY sport tournament's policy! Whether it is important to you or I really doesn't factor into this discussion.

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08-01-2012, 05:15 PM
  #252
Master Lok
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So cheating, which is exactly what they did, is fairplay here?

Really?
How is losing a game, cheating?

Can you show me which badminton rule did they break?

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08-01-2012, 05:16 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
How is losing a game, cheating?

Can you show me which badminton rule did they break?
They broke the oath they took. Sportsmanship is hopefully a rule in the olympic games considering it's in their oath as well..

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08-01-2012, 05:16 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
How is losing a game, cheating?

Can you show me which badminton rule did they break?
The rule of sportmanship. It is in the oath. You keep on ignoring that point.

But obviously your moral standards are very low, your choice. But for me end of discussion.

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08-01-2012, 05:19 PM
  #255
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to win a gold medal you have to beat the best of the best, knockem out LA Kings styles 1 - 2 - 3, thats how champions roll. cowards and losers try to make the easy way and im glad they got bounced.

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08-01-2012, 05:20 PM
  #256
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Another solid day for Canada with two more medals! It would have been great to see them pick up a third medal as we had some close calls with Hughes and our 4x200 relay team but they were all considered longshots from the start.

I think it's awesome our badminton team gets a chance to compete for a medal but I hope people don't have too much in the way of expectations. They didn't win a match in the prelim games and only made it through because they got two "auto" wins for the disqualified team. Likewise, the Australian team they beat wasn't a top team and only made it through because of the disqualifications. The other three teams in the semis besides Canada are all top 5 world ranked teams - the Canadians played the Russians (who are in the other semi-final) and lost badly. It's still a cool experience for the girls though!

More good news today too as our 91kg+ boxer Kean won his match to move on to the quarterfinals. One more win and he's competing for a medal!

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Old
08-01-2012, 05:23 PM
  #257
Master Lok
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
No I would not.

In fact I have been in this situation. We had a soccer competition many years ago. Played a a high level.

If we would have lost the first game, we would have faced easier competition the rest of the way.

Didn't even consider it.

1. I am a competitor, I don't want to lose any time I take the field, or in any game.

2. It isn't ethical.

If our team had done so we would have deserved the same consequences as the badminton team. Ethics is part of ANY sport tournament's policy! Whether it is important to you or I really doesn't factor into this discussion.
I would respect ethics higher if organizations, leagues and officials felt the same way. You say that the format is partly to blame - which I assume is the Olympic organization's fault. So how do you hold them accountable for this fiasco?

When the fullbody swimsuits were introduced in the Olympics - and Phelps was using one, and some other swimmers didn't have access to those suits - where was the ethics of fair competition there?

In the cycling competition, teams of cyclists "strategize" to make sure certain cyclists win and block off other cyclists to make they lose - where is the ethics there? Is everyone truly striving hard to win? I don't think so.

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08-01-2012, 05:25 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
The rule of sportmanship. It is in the oath. You keep on ignoring that point.

But obviously your moral standards are very low, your choice. But for me end of discussion.
Ha, hilarious. My moral standards are low? I think you're judgemental in applying your moral standard on one sport in one activity and then failing to apply the same standard against the Olympic committee, or other sports, or competitors. I also think you have a lack of empathy for the athletes for the decision making that they have to do in the situation which the Olympics format put them in.


Last edited by Master Lok: 08-01-2012 at 05:31 PM.
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08-01-2012, 05:27 PM
  #259
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to win a gold medal you have to beat the best of the best, knockem out LA Kings styles 1 - 2 - 3, thats how champions roll. cowards and losers try to make the easy way and im glad they got bounced.
Then make a format that doesn't allow there to be a benefit to losing.

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08-01-2012, 05:29 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
No I would not.

In fact I have been in this situation. We had a soccer competition many years ago. Played a a high level.

If we would have lost the first game, we would have faced easier competition the rest of the way.
You have personally nothing on the line.

Did you train every day for four years to reach the level?
The next opportunity to win would be in four more years. is that the same as your soccer competition?
Was the result of winning your soccer competition - the same as winning fame, money of an olympic gold in your country?

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08-01-2012, 05:41 PM
  #261
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So the ends justify the means, eh? Nice to know that's your view.

What about NO Saints' bounty - was that okay too because they were doing it to win?

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08-01-2012, 05:43 PM
  #262
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I'm not even going to get into the whole throwing matches thing. lol.


Clara Hughes = GOAT

That's all.

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08-01-2012, 05:44 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
You have personally nothing on the line.

Did you train every day for four years to reach the level?
The next opportunity to win would be in four more years. is that the same as your soccer competition?
Was the result of winning your soccer competition - the same as winning fame, money of an olympic gold in your country?
Win and prove you're the best.

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08-01-2012, 05:53 PM
  #264
Master Lok
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So the ends justify the means, eh? Nice to know that's your view.

What about NO Saints' bounty - was that okay too because they were doing it to win?
The ends has always justified the means in professional sports. We can all pretend otherwise but it would be a lie. i'm not saying that it's right or wrong, i'm just saying that's the way it is.

How did you feel when Torres knocked out Milan Michalek?

And later when Torres knocks out Marian Hossa. So Torres gets suspended. Phoenix Coyotes wins the series as Chicago loses Hossa for the series. Should Chicago appeal the series and say that it wasn't fair?

It goes back to when Bobby Clarke two handed Kharlamov and breaks his ankle in the 1972 series. Was that legal?

Take a look at the whole point of intimidation in hockey.

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08-01-2012, 06:00 PM
  #265
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What do gold medals stand for? The Olympics are about the top athletes in the world competing against one another to prove who is the best. If an athlete or team purposefully loses to avoid facing the best it severely degrades what the Olympics and gold medals stand for.

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08-01-2012, 06:10 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Toydarian View Post
What do gold medals stand for? The Olympics are about the top athletes in the world competing against one another to prove who is the best. If an athlete or team purposefully loses to avoid facing the best it severely degrades what the Olympics and gold medals stand for.
I would suggest that the Olympics and gold medals have been degraded more by the terrible judging, steroids, and "strategies" that certain teams do. But hey if you want to think that the worst evil in the sports world is throwing a match to face easier competition that's up to you.

Here's one with a canadian connection.

"Ingrid Paul, a speedskating coach with Canada at Vancouver 2010, was found by the Netherlands' Olympic committee to have been involved in a scheme at Turin 2006 to induce a Polish speedskater to withdraw from the 5,000 metre race. "

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Olympics/2.../20052376.html

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08-01-2012, 06:10 PM
  #267
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You make some good points Master Lok, but for the most part are way off base. As pointed out you've continuously ignored the Olympic oath to sportsmanship. There is nothing honourable about losing on purpose. It only demonstrates cowardice. To be the best you must beat the best.

As for Torres, his play is dirty for sure, but does not apply to this conversation. He is trying to win. Clarke? Same thing. These disgraceful badminton teams were not trying to win. End of story.

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08-01-2012, 06:13 PM
  #268
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I have to be in the minority here but I agree with Master Lok. They were playing within the rules and it's not their fault that they have a system set in place that promotes losing. This has nothing to so with morals it has to do with legality.

So if you dont give 100% does that mean you are throwing a game?

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08-01-2012, 06:18 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
I have to be in the minority here but I agree with Master Lok. They were playing within the rules and it's not their fault that they have a system set in place that promotes losing. This has nothing to so with morals it has to do with legality.

So if you dont give 100% does that mean you are throwing a game?
Yes.

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08-01-2012, 06:19 PM
  #270
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Was what Team Sweden and Peter Forsberg did in the 2006 Olympics wrong then? They won gold by losing to the Slovaks.
Did they intentionally tank the game? If they intentionally tanked the game in order to get an easier path to the finals, then they should be embarrassed.

There's a reason why stars like Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson ridiculed the **** that's gone on in the NBA with the superstar stacking in Miami and crap like that. Jordan wanted nothing less than to beat players like Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas, and to accomplish more than those players did. Johnson didn't want to be on the same team as Larry Bird, he wanted to beat Larry Bird in the finals. And Larry wanted to do the same back to Magic (especially since their rivalry went back to the college days).

I respect John Stockton a ton more than Karl Malone because he stayed with the team that he loved, and didn't go off and try to join a stacked Laker team in an attempt to win a championship (which thankfully imploded)


Unfortunately the tanking is not something that's easily provable, but under no circumstance would I ever want the Oilers intentionally losing games because they're afraid of a match up in the playoffs. (And no, I don't feel the Oilers have been intentionally losing games the past few years)

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08-01-2012, 06:24 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
I would suggest that the Olympics and gold medals have been degraded more by the terrible judging, steroids, and "strategies" that certain teams do. But hey if you want to think that the worst evil in the sports world is throwing a match to face easier competition that's up to you.
I am not naive enough to believe people won't try anything to win or gain an advantage whether it be legal or not. Nevertheless, jeopardizing the integrity of the sport in any way should severely discouraged and penalized.

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08-01-2012, 06:29 PM
  #272
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If someone can show me the rule that intentionally throwing a match is legal and endorsed by the Badminton Federation, I would appriciate it. I can't seem to find it, but obviously it must be somewhere.

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08-01-2012, 06:43 PM
  #273
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Anybody else a little disappointed with the evening coverage provided by CTV? Considering they have THREE channels at their disposal, it's ridiculous how few events involving Canadians have been getting shown.

Have seen barely any heats for swimming involving Canadians. Even if they don't make it to the final, I'd personally rather watch Canadians compete and lose than watch a Bulgarian volleyball game or guys from Turkmenistan lifting weights.

I thought the Canadian girls were in a gymnastics final yesterday...but the only gymnastics I saw were on NBC (with the Americans winning of course). TSN showed most of a Brazil/Germany beach volleyball game, then just brief highlights of the Canada one. That's a load of crap if you ask me. Seems to me CTV has taken the very American approach of not showing events that Canada lost.

I think I heard today that CBC got the Olympics back for 2014 and 2016. I thought CTV did a fantastic job in Vancouver, but has come up short in London.

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08-01-2012, 07:58 PM
  #274
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Anybody else a little disappointed with the evening coverage provided by CTV? Considering they have THREE channels at their disposal, it's ridiculous how few events involving Canadians have been getting shown.

Have seen barely any heats for swimming involving Canadians. Even if they don't make it to the final, I'd personally rather watch Canadians compete and lose than watch a Bulgarian volleyball game or guys from Turkmenistan lifting weights.

I thought the Canadian girls were in a gymnastics final yesterday...but the only gymnastics I saw were on NBC (with the Americans winning of course). TSN showed most of a Brazil/Germany beach volleyball game, then just brief highlights of the Canada one. That's a load of crap if you ask me. Seems to me CTV has taken the very American approach of not showing events that Canada lost.

I think I heard today that CBC got the Olympics back for 2014 and 2016. I thought CTV did a fantastic job in Vancouver, but has come up short in London.
Thats what we get when they throw all their bread in the basket for the Vancouver Olympics. Probably don't have enough money to cover this one; I wouldn't be surprised if they just licensed some footage but used their own commentators.

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08-01-2012, 08:29 PM
  #275
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Thats what we get when they throw all their bread in the basket for the Vancouver Olympics. Probably don't have enough money to cover this one; I wouldn't be surprised if they just licensed some footage but used their own commentators.
I haven't been impressed with CTV this year either. They did well in Vancouver but London has been brutal.

I am very happy that CBC won the rights to the next 2. Hopefully they are given some budget to work with.

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