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A thread for every player: Jamie McBain

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Old
07-26-2012, 08:31 AM
  #1
tarheelhockey
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A thread for every player: Jamie McBain

Jamie McBain

(rankings among team defensemen)

GP: 76
TOI per game: 19:47 (5th)
Goals: 8 (3rd)
Assists: 19 (1st)
Points: 27 (1st)
PIM: 4 (7th)
Hits: 15 (8th)
Blocked shots: 106 (4th)
Giveaways: 40 (2nd)
Takeaways: 30 (2nd)

Age: 24 (February 25, 1988)
Height: 6'2" (1.88m)
Weight: 197 lbs (89kg)

Contract status: RFA in 2014
Current contract: 2yr, $3.6M ($1.8M per)
Acquired: 2006 draft, 2nd round (63rd)


I guess it's kind of serendipitous that McBain's turn came up, since we have the parallel discussion about him already.

Here are my thoughts on this guy. Ok, so he's not a super-stud like Faulk or (we hope) Murphy. But he is a pretty damn good supporting player, and the team needs those too.

I realize he's our most tradeable asset, and when the conversation was about trading him for Nash or Staal, I was down for that. But now we're talking about moving him for guys that are, themselves, supporting pieces. That doesn't seem to me like a prudent use of our resources.

This is a guy who was essentially a third-round pick, our only homegrown defenseman with more than a year's experience, who will still be an RFA in two years while hitting the prime seasons of his career. That's the guy we want to ship out for a 2nd/3rd line option?

I have a feeling that if we trade McBain, we're going to watch him light us up for a long time on teams who can provide him with a reliable partner and sheltered minutes.

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07-26-2012, 08:38 AM
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What the Faulk
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This should be good.

Can't wait for TBK to come and tell us how he's 7th or 8th on the depth chart.

I tend to agree with you in regards to trading him. If it's for a big piece like Ryan then I'm all for it, but there's no point in trading him just to trade him. IMO he's one of the best in terms of puck possession in the offensive zone, and he can still improve defensively. Plus, his cheap contract can only help going forward if he does improve.

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07-26-2012, 08:52 AM
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He sucks, kill him

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07-26-2012, 08:53 AM
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Sens1Canes2
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The fact he had 4 penalty minutes tells me he's not real sure how to play defense. He's so soft, it's kind of irritating.
Also, not sure why the fuss over "homegrown" players. Sure it's nice to have developed players here and there, but a better roster is more important than having homegrown guys. I don't care how you get roster players.

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07-26-2012, 08:55 AM
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impeach estaalo
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I think he's the best Hurricanes defenseman in the offensive zone by far.

Unfortunately the rest of the ice is a major issue.

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07-26-2012, 09:01 AM
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tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens1Canes2 View Post
The fact he had 4 penalty minutes tells me he's not real sure how to play defense. He's so soft, it's kind of irritating.
Agreed.

Quote:
Also, not sure why the fuss over "homegrown" players. Sure it's nice to have developed players here and there, but a better roster is more important than having homegrown guys. I don't care how you get roster players.
Homegrown players are the basis for a stable, competitive organization. Drafting and development is inevitably a more efficient way to produce talent than trades and free agent signings.

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07-26-2012, 09:05 AM
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Sens1Canes2
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Homegrown players are the basis for a stable, competitive organization. Drafting and development is inevitably a more efficient way to produce talent than trades and free agent signings.
I suppose. But it's not a hard and fast rule. I think someone pointed out that the Red Wings have drafted exactly one player in the last five years who's seen significant NHL time.
I do see your point, but I don't think the issue should hinder a trade that would benefit the team.

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07-26-2012, 09:30 AM
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tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens1Canes2 View Post
I suppose. But it's not a hard and fast rule. I think someone pointed out that the Red Wings have drafted exactly one player in the last five years who's seen significant NHL time.
It was probably me who said that I've been harping on the Red Wings' overrated draft record for years.

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07-26-2012, 09:44 AM
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TheBigKahuna
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He's a young Corvo with less skill, worse skating, less physical play and not nearly as strong.

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07-26-2012, 09:51 AM
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Boom Boom Anton
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I personally don't really care if he's homegrown or not. This goes for any player, if it improves the team, then a trade is fine with me. At this point though, unless it's in a trade that substantially improves the team, I'd hold onto him. If down the road, some of the prospects (Murphy, Biega, Sanguinetti, etc..) show they are ready or other better defensemen are acquired, that's a different story.

McBain is pretty good in the offensive zone. Walks the line very well and has a very good knack for knowing when to join the rush and head to the net..probably better than any other defenseman on the team. As has been stated by others, he is weak on the defensive side (although I think his defensive shortcomings are somewhat overstated, as he was stuck with Kaberle, Joslin and Spacek for most of the year). His strength and balance are lacking IMO. And by strength, I don't just mean physically in the corner. His skating stride seems a bit odd to me and he doesn't seem to be strong on his skates or have good balance. If those two things improved, I'm convinced he'd be substantially better outside the offensive zone.

He's still only 24, so hopefully that part of his game can come around. I've read that the Canes are happy with the development path he's on. I'd like to see him take another step forward in improvement this year, particularly on the defensive side of the equation.

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07-26-2012, 09:57 AM
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Boom Boom Anton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigKahuna View Post
He's a young Corvo with less skill, worse skating, less physical play and not nearly as strong.
I disagree that he's a young Corvo. Corvo could have been a top 20 defenseman in the league if he had a hockey brain that halfway matched his skill (and if he could hit the net). I agree McBain isn't as strong, has less skill, and is a worse skater, but Corvo's hockey IQ is one of the worst I've seen. Corvo also isn't a very good passer (and McBain is actually a pretty decent passer).

I'm not going to argue with you about McBain because your position is well known, just that I don't think a comparison to Corvo is a good one.

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07-26-2012, 10:13 AM
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What's the need for a thread on a player about who we end up debating in about 1 out of every 4 threads?

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07-26-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
It was probably me who said that I've been harping on the Red Wings' overrated draft record for years.
Say what you want about the last 5 years--but of their top 8 scorers, only Todd Bertuzzi at number 6 was a non-Redwings draft pick. 8 of their top 11 forwards by TOI are Detroit draft picks. Add in the goalie as being homegrown as well, and I think the Wings are the prime example of drafting, developing and keeping homegrown talent.

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07-26-2012, 12:54 PM
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I'll try not to argue it either, but Corvo is a brutal comparison. Joe is athletic, staight forward fast with much less lateral mobility, with no thinking. Mcbain is deliberate, mobile without explosiveness, thinks his way through everything. Other than being pmd's they're pretty much polar opposites. Corvo has a bomb slapper that has no control or accuracy, mcbain has wristers, snappers, one timers all accurate and rarely blocked. Ill stop now.

Mcbain is on his way. He has improved every year, and is thought of as a top 4 guys from what I've read. I think he's definitely still a step ahead of Faulk but I'd agree Faulk has a higher ceiling. Regardless homegrown talent tends to be cheaper and you get value out of it. There no reason Faulk, mcbain and Murphy can't co exist.

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07-26-2012, 04:48 PM
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tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ONO94 View Post
Say what you want about the last 5 years--but of their top 8 scorers, only Todd Bertuzzi at number 6 was a non-Redwings draft pick. 8 of their top 11 forwards by TOI are Detroit draft picks. Add in the goalie as being homegrown as well, and I think the Wings are the prime example of drafting, developing and keeping homegrown talent.
The Wings are the prime example of hitting gold once or twice a decade, and riding that reputation through years and years of poor drafting.

No doubt that their 1989-91 was incredibly productive, largely based on their being the first to really take advantage of the talent hidden in Europe. But from then until 1998, they were a very average drafting/developing team with their big "hits" being McCarty, Dandenault and Eriksson. That's nothing to brag about for a 6-year period.

Then they had another good stretch, grabbing Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Kronwall in successive seasons. But it's not like those guys arrived in Detroit as superstars. The fact that the Wings were in a phase of signing every major UFA they could find, and icing a team stocked with Hall of Famers, allowed their prospects an inordinate amount of time to develop risk-free outside the NHL. That's not just a great development program, that's an owner who is spending megabucks to keep rookies off the NHL roster.

In the dozen years since then, and particularly since the implementation of the salary cap, the Wings have drafted over a hundred players and none have turned out to be anything special. Their few hits, guys like Filppula and Hudler and Quincey, have either been traded or have been fantasy-traded a million times by Wings fans.

It's not like they're Columbus-level terribad, but the Wings have generally been a very ordinary drafting team in the past 20 years. Yet every year (thankfully less so lately) we hear how they are draft wizards. Every year Wings fans scoff at the idea that they will suffer from the aging of their core, on the basis that Holland will find more hidden diamonds to replace them. Guys like Tatar get elevated to "elite prospect" status based on te Wings seal of approval. It's ridiculous. Their record doesn't justify the hype.

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07-26-2012, 05:15 PM
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TheBigKahuna
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
Mcbain is on his way. He has improved every year, and is thought of as a top 4 guys from what I've read. I think he's definitely still a step ahead of Faulk but I'd agree Faulk has a higher ceiling. Regardless homegrown talent tends to be cheaper and you get value out of it. There no reason Faulk, mcbain and Murphy can't co exist.
Improved every year? Really? If last season was an improvement, he had no business in the NHL in the two previous seasons. Saying he's ahead of Faulk is a joke...and ends this discussion right there.

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07-26-2012, 05:44 PM
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Stahl2Stall
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One thing I hate about his game is the way he attempts to almost "standup" the on coming forward but instead of hitting he just goes for the poke check, makes me cringe everytime he does it doesn't matter if it works or not. I feel like if he were more willing to throw his body around he would be really good at catching guys in bad spots.

All in all I like Mcbain as a second pairing player. I had ridiculous hopes for him entering his first season and obviously he didn't turn out to be this amazingly great defenseman out of the gate, but he's still young and I think he can still refine his game on the backend to potentially become a good #2

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07-26-2012, 08:00 PM
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bleedgreen
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Originally Posted by TheBigKahuna View Post
Improved every year? Really? If last season was an improvement, he had no business in the NHL in the two previous seasons. Saying he's ahead of Faulk is a joke...and ends this discussion right there.
Go troll elsewhere.

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07-27-2012, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by TheBigKahuna View Post
He's a young Corvo with less skill, worse skating, less physical play and not nearly as strong.
This knee-jerk kind of comparison without any depth of analysis is just silly. Here's a fun fact. McBain averaged more ESTOI than Bryan Allen last year. How do you think that happened?

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07-27-2012, 08:23 PM
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This knee-jerk kind of comparison without any depth of analysis is just silly. Here's a fun fact. McBain averaged more ESTOI than Bryan Allen last year. How do you think that happened?
Another fun fact, at McBain's age Corvo hadn't yet made his NHL debut.

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07-28-2012, 07:17 AM
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TheBigKahuna
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Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
Another fun fact, at McBain's age Corvo hadn't yet made his NHL debut.
There are plenty who think McBain isn't ready for the NHL at his current age.

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07-28-2012, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
The Wings are the prime example of hitting gold once or twice a decade, and riding that reputation through years and years of poor drafting.

No doubt that their 1989-91 was incredibly productive, largely based on their being the first to really take advantage of the talent hidden in Europe. But from then until 1998, they were a very average drafting/developing team with their big "hits" being McCarty, Dandenault and Eriksson. That's nothing to brag about for a 6-year period.

Then they had another good stretch, grabbing Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Kronwall in successive seasons. But it's not like those guys arrived in Detroit as superstars. The fact that the Wings were in a phase of signing every major UFA they could find, and icing a team stocked with Hall of Famers, allowed their prospects an inordinate amount of time to develop risk-free outside the NHL. That's not just a great development program, that's an owner who is spending megabucks to keep rookies off the NHL roster.

In the dozen years since then, and particularly since the implementation of the salary cap, the Wings have drafted over a hundred players and none have turned out to be anything special. Their few hits, guys like Filppula and Hudler and Quincey, have either been traded or have been fantasy-traded a million times by Wings fans.

It's not like they're Columbus-level terribad, but the Wings have generally been a very ordinary drafting team in the past 20 years. Yet every year (thankfully less so lately) we hear how they are draft wizards. Every year Wings fans scoff at the idea that they will suffer from the aging of their core, on the basis that Holland will find more hidden diamonds to replace them. Guys like Tatar get elevated to "elite prospect" status based on the Wings seal of approval. It's ridiculous. Their record doesn't justify the hype.
Don't tell that to the Wings fans.

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07-28-2012, 08:43 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by TheBigKahuna View Post
There are plenty who think McBain isn't ready for the NHL at his current age.
And there are those who ignore that he logged more ESTOI than de facto shutdown D Bryan Allen.

I guess we won't be getting your take on that? Happy to explain it if you don't want to go there.

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07-28-2012, 08:52 AM
  #24
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I'm guessing McBain saw a lot more action 4 on 4?

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07-28-2012, 11:42 AM
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Joe McGrath
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Originally Posted by TheBigKahuna View Post
There are plenty who think McBain isn't ready for the NHL at his current age.
By plenty I think you mean just you. Keep applauding your own BS opinions though. That'll show everyone.

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