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Offseason Armchair GM Thread Part IIX (aka VIII)

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Old
07-27-2012, 11:34 PM
  #251
KirbyDots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
It's tough. DW knows the issues as he, imo, correctly identified the things that need addressing. He did one of them with the coaching rearrangement. He identified the speed on the wings issue but has yet to really make any moves towards that end. It's not going to get any easier to do something about it between now and the start of the season so hopefully something is in the works. Right now, our forwards look something like this...

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Clowe-Couture-Havlat
Wingels-Handzus-Burish
Galiardi-Desjardins-McCarthy/Sheppard/???

I don't see the team play being much different with that roster really. There is a chance that their place in the standings improves by default with Detroit, Nashville, and potentially Phoenix taking pretty substantial hits and the only team beneath the Sharks that is good enough right now to surpass them is the Kings. That would put the Sharks at around the 5-6 spot with an outside chance at the division. I don't see anyone outside of the playoffs that is so much better that they will jump the Sharks.
I agree that its not as bad as the doom and gloomers have been saying, but if we can just get a tweener or a top 6 we could be a legit contender.

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Clowe-Couture-Havlat
Wingels-Handzus-Top6 or Tweener
Galiardi-Desjardins-Burish
McCarthy/Sheppard

Looks even better if you drop a top 6 down to the third and or resign Moore.

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Old
07-27-2012, 11:39 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by AnderFunk View Post
So having Daniel Winnik and Dominic Moore wasn't better depth-wise than having just Adam Burish? I whole heartedly disagree and I think most people would too.
Listing Torrey Mitchell, Brad Winchester and Colin White as proof that we lost depth is disingenuous. They weren't very effective when they were here. Sure, Winnik is better than Burish (by a bit) but Brad Stuart is WAY better than Pylon White. We didn't lose anything special.

We haven't lost Moore yet, so he isn't a loss.

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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
Where were you guys when someone was arguing with me over Wingels potential as a top 6 player..?
I've been pretty high on TW for a while now. Anyways, glad you like him too.

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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
Sure but last season the Sharks played the Nucks pretty well. The Nucks may have won the series but they didn't dominate the Sharks. The season before the Nucks owned the Sharks.
I remember it differently.

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Old
07-28-2012, 02:43 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post


I remember it differently.
You don't remember all the games being close? The Sharks were only outscored 12 to 10. The season before they were outscored by at least six

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Old
07-28-2012, 03:09 AM
  #254
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07-28-2012, 04:15 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
You don't remember all the games being close? The Sharks were only outscored 12 to 10. The season before they were outscored by at least six
The score may have been close but there was no doubt that they were the better team in each game.

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Old
07-28-2012, 04:17 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The score may have been close but there was no doubt that they were the better team in each game.
Which year? The Nucks lost last year due to injuries. The Sharks lost the year before due to injuries.

Either team could have one those series if all players were healthy.

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07-28-2012, 04:20 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Which year? The Nucks lost last year due to injuries. The Sharks lost the year before due to injuries.

Either team could have one those series if all players were healthy.
I thought it was the regular season series between the two this season.

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Old
07-28-2012, 04:37 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I thought it was the regular season series between the two this season.
Don't expect an apology for getting into the middle of a conversation I don't understand. That's my nature , but...

I thought that was closer than the results, but the Nucks won. Lots of games could have gone either way. I will say the Sharks barely won the games they won and the Nucks usually deserved their wins, but that's the regular season and there are things going on like slumps, injuries, long trips etc... that sometimes contribute to those results. It can be argued that the Nucks were better, but that's not the end of the discussion or a fact.

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07-28-2012, 07:09 AM
  #259
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so now we know the sharks won't be signing Semin (although lets be honest, it wasn't really ever going to happen)

and we avoided the Nash contract...

Would you like to see the sharks sign Kristian Huselius?

Maybe 1 year 2 million?

He is a skilled winger and the sharks definitely need help in that department, fragile but could have a significant offensive impact if he stays healthy..

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Old
07-28-2012, 08:17 AM
  #260
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Wow, I go away for 10 days and all sorts of stuff happens, just not with the Sharks. The Weber offer sheet and match, the Nash trade (yay, not to SJ!), Semin signing, Voracek and Enstrom extensions, and probably a whole lot more I haven't noticed yet.

Either DW isn't doing anything or he's hoping to pick up players other teams might have to move or who become UFA due to arbitration.

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07-28-2012, 02:02 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Wow, I go away for 10 days and all sorts of stuff happens, just not with the Sharks. The Weber offer sheet and match, the Nash trade (yay, not to SJ!), Semin signing, Voracek and Enstrom extensions, and probably a whole lot more I haven't noticed yet.

Either DW isn't doing anything or he's hoping to pick up players other teams might have to move or who become UFA due to arbitration.
He needs a bottom six forward and a spare part.

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Old
07-28-2012, 02:04 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
He needs a bottom six forward and a spare part.
He needs more than that.

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Old
07-28-2012, 02:08 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
He needs more than that.
No he doesn't not without creating a hole by filing another. And the hole he creates will likely be worse than the one he fills

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07-28-2012, 02:13 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
No he doesn't not without creating a hole by filing another. And the hole he creates will likely be worse than the one he fills
If by need, you simply mean to fill out a roster, you'd be right. However, if he expects to make any real headway in terms of playoff results, he needs a hell of a lot more than that. And whether or not the solution is that only proves my point further.

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07-28-2012, 02:21 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
If by need, you simply mean to fill out a roster, you'd be right. However, if he expects to make any real headway in terms of playoff results, he needs a hell of a lot more than that. And whether or not the solution is that only proves my point further.
I think you forgot a word...

The top six are the least of the clubs worries. The third line and the PK are far bigger concerns.With a good PK I think they beat the Blues. Combine that with a third line that could push the play or even better shut down McDonald they slaughter the blues

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07-28-2012, 02:37 PM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
I think you forgot a word...

The top six are the least of the clubs worries. The third line and the PK are far bigger concerns.With a good PK I think they beat the Blues. Combine that with a third line that could push the play or even better shut down McDonald they slaughter the blues
You obviously saw a different series than I did. They weren't a third line and a good PK away from winning that series. One goal or less in three contests means a lot more than just having a third line that can push the play away from winning those contests.

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Old
07-28-2012, 02:58 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
You obviously saw a different series than I did. They weren't a third line and a good PK away from winning that series. One goal or less in three contests means a lot more than just having a third line that can push the play away from winning those contests.
These can mean the same thing. The PK would equate to more goals less.

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07-28-2012, 03:51 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
These can mean the same thing. The PK would equate to more goals less.
You may not lose if you dont give up goals but you still have to score them to win. I definitely hear you though. The coaching should help with the PK but I still think we need changes to the top-6.

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Old
07-28-2012, 04:19 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
You may not lose if you dont give up goals but you still have to score them to win. I definitely hear you though. The coaching should help with the PK but I still think we need changes to the top-6.
No we don't. The top six is one of the proveably best in the entire league. Out bottom six sucks and has for a while.

At best we could get a lateral change to the top six. Any trade for a "better" player at this point would further ruin our pathetic depth at scoring or further deplete our prospect pool. If you think we can, please tell me who is actually better than anyone in our top six, that we could aquire with one roster player and minimal picks/prospects.

Scoring is not a problem for our top six, it is for the bottom six. Play better special teams and fix the bottom six so it actually produces and the team will dominate. They already do dominate some years and have not had a good bottom six for a long time.

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Old
07-28-2012, 04:20 PM
  #270
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We don't need a "better" player, we need a better fit than Clowe.

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07-28-2012, 04:26 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Dicdonya View Post
No we don't. The top six is one of the proveably best in the entire league. Out bottom six sucks and has for a while.

At best we could get a lateral change to the top six. Any trade for a "better" player at this point would further ruin our pathetic depth at scoring or further deplete our prospect pool. If you think we can, please tell me who is actually better than anyone in our top six, that we could aquire with one roster player and minimal picks/prospects.

Scoring is not a problem for our top six, it is for the bottom six. Play better special teams and fix the bottom six so it actually produces and the team will dominate. They already do dominate some years and have not had a good bottom six for a long time.
I guess we will just disagree there.

Our top-6 issues were about matchup's. The entry into neutral ice was pretty bad on 5 on 5's. And the dump and chase (or chip and chase) that we try had issues as well because we could not get to the puck quick enough. These issues are going to be exposed a lot more against the younger and quicker teams unless we get speed of our own to match it.

Our main special teams problem was on the PK which the coaching may fix. However, while this may reduce goals against it will not give us more goals. Also, outside of Marleau we really dont have any player with enough speed to keep the opponents honest with regard to short-handed goals.

Heck DW himself came out and said we need more wingers. Unless you think he was BS'ing ofcourse. I tend to agree with him on that assessment.

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07-28-2012, 04:34 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
We don't need a "better" player, we need a better fit than Clowe.
This doesn't even make sense. Why would you think getting a better "fit" would be a good idea if that player cannot actually produce points like clowe? Also my question still stands. Who do we get that's going to help the top six more than clowe without creating new holes?

You can't say it's easy to replace a guy who scores 45-60pts a year, is physical and is the most noticeably heart and soul guy in our top six, without giving up pieces we can't right now. A better fit would mean better than clowe. Otherwise how is it a better fit.

That's why right now it would be smarter to give up a defenseman for bottom six pieces. We have spare defenders and need help in the bottom six more than we need help up top.

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07-28-2012, 05:34 PM
  #273
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Haven't made a roster in a while so...
After the trade I just posted on the main boards..
Demers, Handzus and a pick for Bailey
Sign Shane Doan to a 2 year 10 million deal (go up to 11 if that is what it takes)
Then trade futures for Jordan Leopold at the deadline when Buffalo becomes a seller

badabingbadaboom

FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Shane Doan ($5.000m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Tommy Wingels ($0.775m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Josh Bailey ($1.050m)
Adam Burish ($1.850m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.640m) / T.J. Galiardi ($0.950m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Brad Stuart ($3.600m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Jordan Leopold ($3.000m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) /
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,929,167; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $270,833

Sexy head to toe.

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Old
07-28-2012, 06:28 PM
  #274
WantonAbandon
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Originally Posted by sweHockeypunk21 View Post
Haven't made a roster in a while so...
After the trade I just posted on the main boards..
Demers, Handzus and a pick for Bailey
Sign Shane Doan to a 2 year 10 million deal (go up to 11 if that is what it takes)
Then trade futures for Jordan Leopold at the deadline when Buffalo becomes a seller

badabingbadaboom

FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Shane Doan ($5.000m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Tommy Wingels ($0.775m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Josh Bailey ($1.050m)
Adam Burish ($1.850m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.640m) / T.J. Galiardi ($0.950m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Brad Stuart ($3.600m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Jordan Leopold ($3.000m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) /
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,929,167; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $270,833

Sexy head to toe.
You have burish on the wrong side and the wrong line. That amoung other things equates a roster that doesn't make sense. Further trades are still needed

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Old
07-28-2012, 06:31 PM
  #275
WantonAbandon
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Originally Posted by Dicdonya View Post
This doesn't even make sense. Why would you think getting a better "fit" would be a good idea if that player cannot actually produce points like clowe? Also my question still stands. Who do we get that's going to help the top six more than clowe without creating new holes?

You can't say it's easy to replace a guy who scores 45-60pts a year, is physical and is the most noticeably heart and soul guy in our top six, without giving up pieces we can't right now. A better fit would mean better than clowe. Otherwise how is it a better fit.

That's why right now it would be smarter to give up a defenseman for bottom six pieces. We have spare defenders and need help in the bottom six more than we need help up top.
The problem is Clowe does a lot of things that do fit. The main complaints are his speed and turnovers. The problem is Clowe is a possession machine. It is very hard to take the puck from him even when he is mangled and nearly broken, but yes sometimes he makes bad decisions with his passing. Couture and Havlat need a guy like Clowe. Clowe isn't as easy to replace as some think.

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