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Offseason Armchair GM Thread Part IIX (aka VIII)

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Old
08-13-2012, 04:23 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Only the Kings had one of the best goalies and defenses in the game. They had a good support players in their bottom as well.
THat great goalie got shelled the year before by the sharks and a bunch of goalies got shelled in the playoffs and do every year.

Doesn't change the fact the Kings were an 8 and almost no one picked them to win the cup at the start of the playoffs...

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08-13-2012, 04:28 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
As opposed to a fake contender or an average contender?? Thats rubbish. This team has more than enough weapons to be a true contender.
Any team that makes the playoffs is technically a 'contender'. I think we will make the playoffs. Are we a 'true' contender for the cup? Not in my opinion. Team is too slow, and has too little depth up front.

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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
This is just kinda getting silly... how many people thought the Kings were a "true contender" after dropping games to the faux sharks at the end of the season and sneaking in as an 8 seed...? Almost no one gave them a chance in the first round and everyone it seemed thought the next round would expose them as fakes until they got the SCF.

Depending on how things play out the sharks are just as legit a contender as anyone one else in the league.
I absolutely did. In fact my best bud's gf is a HUGE Kings fan and I told her right before the playoffs started that I thought the Kings were the team to beat. Once they beat the Nucks, and was all freaked out about the Blues, I told her "Kings will wipe the floor with the Blues, quit worrying, Kings are going to win the cup". It was funny because through every series she was absolutely in a panick and I kept telling her "They are going to win the cup and you are going to look back at this and ask yourself why you ever doubted them". Kings are also my second favorite team and I was extremely happy to see them win, they deserved it.

Also, a couple seasons ago that same friend was talking about how Bernier was the next great goalie and they should probably trade Quick. I told her "Quick is going to be one bad ass goalie, I think you should hang onto him, Bernier is nothing special."

The Kings problem was center depth, scoring depth, defensive ability (of their forwards) and coaching (Murray is terrible). They addressed all of those problems and they won a cup, there is nothing about that which should be all that surprising.

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08-13-2012, 04:39 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Only the Kings had one of the best goalies and defenses in the game. They had a good support players in their bottom as well.
The Kings were elite in the defense/goaltending areas all year (2nd in the NHL I believe), but ther offense sucked (29th in the NHL). Their role players really stepped it up in the play-offs (overperformed?), as their bottom 6 was nothing to write home about during the regular season. The thing that put them over the top? Coaching/system. We won't have the Kings' speed, but we may get a similar lift on the systems side and will have a full year to learn it.

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08-13-2012, 04:52 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
This is just kinda getting silly... how many people thought the Kings were a "true contender" after dropping games to the faux sharks at the end of the season and sneaking in as an 8 seed...? Almost no one gave them a chance in the first round and everyone it seemed thought the next round would expose them as fakes until they got the SCF.

Depending on how things play out the sharks are just as legit a contender as anyone one else in the league.
I thought the Kings were contenders all season long. Their defense was stellar throughout, and their pathetic offense in the first half was a fluke. It was pretty obvious to me that the offense would get back on track, and when it did, they were going to make a deep run.

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08-13-2012, 04:54 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by Eighth Fret View Post
I thought the Kings were contenders all season long. Their defense was stellar throughout, and their pathetic offense in the first half was a fluke. It was pretty obvious to me that the offense would get back on track, and when it did, they were going to make a deep run.
It wasn't a fluke, it was terrible, terrible coaching. Murray was one of the worst coaches in the league. As much as I rag on TMac, Murray makes him look like Scotty Bowman.

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08-13-2012, 04:55 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Any team that makes the playoffs is technically a 'contender'. I think we will make the playoffs. Are we a 'true' contender for the cup? Not in my opinion. Team is too slow, and has too little depth up front.



I absolutely did. In fact my best bud's gf is a HUGE Kings fan and I told her right before the playoffs started that I thought the Kings were the team to beat. Once they beat the Nucks, and was all freaked out about the Blues, I told her "Kings will wipe the floor with the Blues, quit worrying, Kings are going to win the cup". It was funny because through every series she was absolutely in a panick and I kept telling her "They are going to win the cup and you are going to look back at this and ask yourself why you ever doubted them". Kings are also my second favorite team and I was extremely happy to see them win, they deserved it.

Also, a couple seasons ago that same friend was talking about how Bernier was the next great goalie and they should probably trade Quick. I told her "Quick is going to be one bad ass goalie, I think you should hang onto him, Bernier is nothing special."

The Kings problem was center depth, scoring depth, defensive ability (of their forwards) and coaching (Murray is terrible). They addressed all of those problems and they won a cup, there is nothing about that which should be all that surprising.
I picked the Kings to win it all before the season started. To bad we didnt put money down in the office because I would have cleaned house!

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08-13-2012, 05:19 PM
  #882
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The crappy part is the Sharks seemed to match up well against the Kings last year and I think they would've had a good shot to win a series against them. Then they matched up against the St. Louis Kryptonites instead.

I told my friend before the last regular season game decided who played who in the playoffs that if the Sharks won that game they'd probably be out of the playoffs if 5 or less and if they lost that game and avoided the Blues matchup, they'd have a shot to make a run.

So naturally they beat the Kings and marched to their doom.

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:31 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
They had a good support players in their bottom as well.
Only in hindsight. Going into the season and after the regular season, a bottom-6 of Stoll, King, Nolan, Lewis, Richardson, Fraser, and Clifford doesn't look that great. It really doesn't look much better than the Sharks have right now(worse than what the Sharks had going into the post-season).
Some of them just got hot at the right time (Lewis and King)

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:41 PM
  #884
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You guys remember the time the sharks did something this offseason? Me neither

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:53 PM
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Boyle broken foot
Murray puck to throat
Havlat freak inury
Ya they are all falling apart, the sky is falling..How about Super-pessimist

If our PK had been 15th-20th we would have had 3-5 more wins and the Pacific Title.So by improving the PK and how it is coached is a HUGE win for the Sharks this year. Their PK last year was down right attrocious.
The Sharks defense is the best its looked since........I am really excited to see them roll this year, Larry will have a major impact on the whole defense and things look extremely bright.
I think as far as us not having a #3c is a matter of how camp plays out and if certain players gel. I think these lines could be efffective:

patty-jt-tj
clowe-juicy-marty
burish-pavs-wingles
shepp-desi-winchester

TJ,Burish,Wingels are all X factors this season imo. I am looking forward to seeing TJ & Wingels bust out given the opportunity.Burish very much interests me and what he'll bring the next 4 years.


and for ****z&giggles:

wingels-jt-tj
patty-juicy-havlat
burish-pavs-clowe
The bolded is simply untrue. People overestimate the effect of the poor PK. Let's say the Sharks go from a 75% PK to an 85% PK. Assuming the Sharks take penalties at a similar rate as last season, in which they gave up 52 PP goals, that saves the Sharks about 6 goals, which is equivalent to exactly one win.

I like our defense, but at the same time, the way Stuey played down the stretch last season was troubling. Yeah, you could argue that he was missing his family or whatever, but he's no spring chicken anymore, and if he ends up a #5 defenseman by the end of the year, I wouldn't be entirely surprised. Luckily I'm pretty high on Braun being a solid #4 guy.

And then there's the Niemi issue. Frankly, he may have played poorly last season, but he had a very, very good even strength save percentage. In fact, between Niemi and Greiss, the Sharks enjoyed one of the highest 5v5 sv% in the entire league (I think it was third IIRC).

And as for the #3C, I'm not holding out hope for James Sheppard to save us. The org has been very clear that they won't use Pavs or Couture at the #3C position, so we're looking at another black hole of production.

It's extremely uninspiring, compared to the teams we've iced since 07-08.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
This is just kinda getting silly... how many people thought the Kings were a "true contender" after dropping games to the faux sharks at the end of the season and sneaking in as an 8 seed...? Almost no one gave them a chance in the first round and everyone it seemed thought the next round would expose them as fakes until they got the SCF.

Depending on how things play out the sharks are just as legit a contender as anyone one else in the league.
I did. I was actually arguing profusely for the Kings in the "Are the Vancouver Canucks the most underrated President's Cup Winners ever?" thread that happened right before the playoffs. I argued that the Kings were a much better team, that their record was a result of bad luck and the misfortune that they didn't add Carter and subtract Johnson sooner, and poor coaching during the first half of the season. I argued that the Kings were one of the best teams in the NHL and that they would roll over the Canucks, and I was laughed at.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=67

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=69

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Old
08-13-2012, 06:05 PM
  #886
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The series would have been a lot closer if D. Sedin was healthy and playing in Games 1-3.

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Old
08-13-2012, 06:42 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
It wasn't a fluke, it was terrible, terrible coaching. Murray was one of the worst coaches in the league. As much as I rag on TMac, Murray makes him look like Scotty Bowman.
Even with the terrible coaching (a point with which I agree), their offensive production was much lower than it should have been.

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Old
08-13-2012, 06:43 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
The series would have been a lot closer if D. Sedin was healthy and playing in Games 1-3.
A healthy Kesler too.

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Old
08-13-2012, 07:39 PM
  #889
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HB your statement about the Kings having the best defense and Goalie is pretty debatable.

You can try and pin coaching on their success all you want, but the truth is they could not have been more fortunate on their playoff draw. If the Kings pulled the Sharks or the Wings odds are they would have lost based on the season series. Funny how the Sharks and the Wings are fairly similar.

If the Sharks would have won their division, then I would have said the odds would have greatly favored Sharks of winning the cup. Their draw would have been just as fortunate as the Kings had been.

If the Sharks become a wee bit more confident with their abilities in their own end then I think they will score like champs. Its hard to score against the Blues when the blues have the team pinned in their own zone and are able to go through full line changes while keeping the puck in the Sharks zone. That would be a much bigger problem than the bottom six lines failing to score and this shortcoming would and was magnified on the PK. In fact having trouble regaining possession and entering the neutral zone once possession was regained would likely be directly related to lack of scoring.


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Old
08-13-2012, 07:50 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
If the Sharks would have won their division, then I would have said the odds would have greatly favored Sharks of winning the cup. Their draw would have been just as fortunate as the Kings had been.
It's partly the draw, and it's partly a health issue. Aside from Gagne, the Kings were pretty lucky with injuries. I don't think the Sharks would have gotten that far regardless considering how injured Pavelski was (and Clowe, Couture, and Burns).

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08-13-2012, 08:00 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
It's partly the draw, and it's partly a health issue. Aside from Gagne, the Kings were pretty lucky with injuries. I don't think the Sharks would have gotten that far regardless considering how injured Pavelski was (and Clowe, Couture, and Burns).
Health does play a factor but right before the playoffs the Sharks layethed the Smackdown on the Kings in a back to back situation where both teams were without question going at full cylinders, so I don't think they would have been a problem in the WCF...

How banged up were the Hawks and Nashville? Hawks might have posed the greatest resistance.

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08-13-2012, 08:03 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
Health does play a factor but right before the playoffs the Sharks layethed the Smackdown on the Kings in a back to back situation where both teams were without question going at full cylinders, so I don't think they would have been a problem in the WCF...

How banged up were the Hawks and Nashville? Hawks might have posed the greatest resistance.
Nashville was pretty healthy from what I recall. Chicago was unlucky with a concussed Hossa and Toews.

I also don't recall the Sharks putting a "smackdown" on the Kings. The first game was extremely close (and Clowe cheated), and the Kings completely let up in the second game.

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08-13-2012, 08:06 PM
  #893
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Nashville was pretty healthy from what I recall. Chicago was unlucky with a concussed Hossa and Toews.
Well if that were the case I think the Sharks would have ripped the Hawks apart.

So it would have been up to Rinne to play series stealer in my opinion.

Most playoff games are close and there usually is some form of cheating too. As far as that first game goes the Kings were at home and were going all out. I believe Doughty said that he/they wanted to eliminate the Sharks. I'm not convinced the Kings laid off in the second game, they were pretty mad after game one.

The funny thing was I watched the King feed during that duo of games. Fox and Miller described what transpired as big brother vs little brother. The Kings were the little brother in their analogy. I don't think they would have been a problem...


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08-13-2012, 09:17 PM
  #894
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Yay. Hockey news.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Max Pacioretty's 6 year contract extension with MTL has an AAV of $4.5M. Extension kicks in at end of next season.

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08-13-2012, 09:21 PM
  #895
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Pacioretty basically got the same contract as Milan did. 6 years around $4M after the ELC.

Also sets a good precedent for Couture.

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08-13-2012, 09:24 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
THat great goalie got shelled the year before by the sharks and a bunch of goalies got shelled in the playoffs and do every year.

Doesn't change the fact the Kings were an 8 and almost no one picked them to win the cup at the start of the playoffs...
I wouldn't say he got shelled by us. He was hard to score against in our series vs LA, but we eventually did score enough to advance. We're a much better offensive team than NJ was. I have no idea how that team made it that far. Bernier/Steven Gionta/Ryan Carter scoring playoff goals is some of the luckiest crap I've ever seen. They were rightfully blown out.

The Kings had some preseason hype after Richards came over. Adding Voynov and Carter just brought that team back to the Championship level where many (mostly Kings fans, but still) thought they would be before the season started.

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08-13-2012, 09:39 PM
  #897
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Pacioretty basically got the same contract as Milan did. 6 years around $4M after the ELC.

Also sets a good precedent for Couture.
Hope so - better comp for us than Skinner's deal.

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08-13-2012, 10:06 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Pacioretty basically got the same contract as Milan did. 6 years around $4M after the ELC.

Also sets a good precedent for Couture.
I was surprised he only got $4.5M. With the way players coming off ELCs are paid today, I was expecting it to be $5M+.

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08-13-2012, 10:16 PM
  #899
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Hope so - better comp for us than Skinner's deal.
Yeah, I don't like Skinner's deal at all, although I respect that Carolina has to overpay their players a bit and that they do have the cap space to do so.

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08-13-2012, 10:34 PM
  #900
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TJ Galiardi ‏@TJGaliardi
Huge day tomorrow for the @NHL, @NHLPA & all of our fans! #solution

Hmmm. Did he just spill the beans, or was he just saying that the solution is what they are fighting for?

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