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Offseason Armchair GM Thread Part IIX (aka VIII)

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Old
07-26-2012, 06:06 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
People said the exact same thing last year and we nearly missed the playoffs. In fact, I believe Easy and I were soundly mocked when we predicted that last season around this time. (I think it was Easy...)
In preseason no one legitimately thought we would lose Havlat for most of the season and that the PK would be as bad as it was. They also went thru the worst slump in almost a decade (?)... Anyone predicting that kind of record for that roster was just a pessimist. If the team stays relatively healthy they win the division and finish 3rd. They only missed out of 3rd by a couple points even as bad as they were at times.

No the pessimists were wrong then and they are wrong now. Injuries and and crappy coaching don't mean they were right...

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07-26-2012, 06:08 PM
  #77
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We only have so many roster spots though. I think we all agree Thornton and Couture are going nowhere, and Marleau and Havlat are the only fast skaters in the top-6. That leaves Pavelski and Clowe. Obviously if you replace Clowe, it helps, but is that enough? Especially if the Sharks sign Doan, who is not a great skater.

I don't like moving Pavelski either, but given this situation it seems like 'fast top-6' and 'keep pavelski' are mutually exclusive.

I don't subscribe to the Pavelski on the 3rd line option either, especially since it sounds like Handzus is coming back (which further adds to the problem).
If DW doesn't add a top-6 and has Handzus centering the 3rd line, he is really pushing his luck. In essence he is hoping that the new coaches are going to be a magic fix.

I am pretty sure ownership will not be thrilled if we are ousted out of the playoffs because of the same problem two years in a row.

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Old
07-26-2012, 06:10 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
Anyone have espn insider? Whats the Sharks article on their rumor page?
I would have subscribed to insider but I hear it's not that great, especially for hockey.

Is it really any good?

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07-26-2012, 06:10 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
If DW doesn't add a top-6 and has Handzus centering the 3rd line, he is really pushing his luck. In essence he is hoping that the new coaches are going to be a magic fix.

I am pretty sure ownership will not be thrilled if we are ousted out of the playoffs because of the same problem two years in a row.
I think Dejardin gets the C spot on the 3rd line this year. Zeus gets a wing or centers the 4th since they can't move him. Although, DW got rid of heatleys contract so anything is possible...

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07-26-2012, 06:13 PM
  #80
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would boyle and handzus for hagelin and del zotto work?

thoughts?

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07-26-2012, 06:13 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by thrillermiller89 View Post
would boyle and handzus for hagelin and del zotto work?

thoughts?
Not even close. Rangers won't even trade years of Del Zotto for 2 years of Boyle, and I agree with them. Add in Handzus for Hagelin and it's just laughably bad.

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Old
07-26-2012, 06:14 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
We only have so many roster spots though. I think we all agree Thornton and Couture are going nowhere, and Marleau and Havlat are the only fast skaters in the top-6. That leaves Pavelski and Clowe. Obviously if you replace Clowe, it helps, but is that enough? Especially if the Sharks sign Doan, who is not a great skater.

I don't like moving Pavelski either, but given this situation it seems like 'fast top-6' and 'keep pavelski' are mutually exclusive.

I don't subscribe to the Pavelski on the 3rd line option either, especially since it sounds like Handzus is coming back (which further adds to the problem).
I understand your issues. I am making a point of Boyle's uniqueness. Guys like Yandle, etc. are not in Boyle's class offensively. Before last year, Wiz and Ehrhoff were the darkhorses in pumping a PP. Add Campbell to the group as he did it for Florida last year although not much previously. Pumping a PP teamwide is a very rare talent and there are a lot of very noteworthy dmen that don't do it although they get plenty of points. Campbell was in the group for no team improvement but plenty of points with the exception of his time with the Sharks and then with Florida last year. Yandle is the the type of guy for points but no team improvement. Doughty is yet another.

The same issue applies to centers. JT, Datsyuk and Sedin shine in this regard.

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Old
07-26-2012, 06:16 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Not even close. Rangers won't even trade years of Del Zotto for 2 years of Boyle, and I agree with them. Add in Handzus for Hagelin and it's just laughably bad.
I wasnt sure how high the stock was/is on hags and del zotto, but now I know. Thanks

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07-26-2012, 06:24 PM
  #84
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So.. to respond to something from the last thread...

Quote:
BLADES OF GLORY:
Thornton is a better player today than he was in 2005-06. He is a better player today than he ever has been at any point his career. If you really think he is "trending downward", you are simply ignorant.
Dude you need to learn how to read. I said I loved what he's done with his game and I specifically said his offensive output has been trending down since the 125 point year (FACT) not that his overall play has been trending down. Way to take 2 words out of context and get outraged and start name calling. You titling your self a troll is well thought out I see...

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Old
07-26-2012, 06:26 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
People said the exact same thing last year and we nearly missed the playoffs. In fact, I believe Easy and I were soundly mocked when we predicted that last season around this time. (I think it was Easy...)
Not all of this is for you, just elucidating my thinking.

Not sure about mocked, but I had the Sharks in low 100s for standings points. I predicted that they would at best be even with the previous year for offense and defense. I actually turned out more optimistic than the results warranted. I did predict that their PK would still be out to lunch as Handzus was NOT a fix. It was a strategy issue and not the players. When they started with Zeus/JT as their top PK pair, I knew they were in trouble. I did see the loss of Seto as that critical tweener being an issue.

My prediction for this year is bubble team and don't see any trade/acquisition as a cure for that. It is extemely difficult to move up and down the standings with off-season movement. Moving up is done through strategy or acquiring playmakers where the team lacked them previously. I give the Sharks a decent but less than 50/50 chance to surprise if they actually enact strategy changes with the coaching. It is the type of move that can be a good change. We should see changes early if the Sharks take advantage of new strategy.

For those thinking overwhelming defense to ride to the cup, think again. The teams that do it that way are Jennings/Vezina caliber. That won't happen with Niemi in goal and I don't see any available goalie that would (there are some goalies who are not available). Top 5 doesn't cut it, top 3 or bust. If the Sharks are going to make a run it has to be done with offense.

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07-26-2012, 06:36 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Not all of this is for you, just elucidating my thinking.

Not sure about mocked, but I had the Sharks in low 100s for standings points. I predicted that they would at best be even with the previous year for offense and defense. I actually turned out more optimistic than the results warranted. I did predict that their PK would still be out to lunch as Handzus was NOT a fix. It was a strategy issue and not the players. When they started with Zeus/JT as their top PK pair, I knew they were in trouble. I did see the loss of Seto as that critical tweener being an issue.

My prediction for this year is bubble team and don't see any trade/acquisition as a cure for that. It is extemely difficult to move up and down the standings with off-season movement. Moving up is done through strategy or acquiring playmakers where the team lacked them previously. I give the Sharks a decent but less than 50/50 chance to surprise if they actually enact strategy changes with the coaching. It is the type of move that can be a good change. We should see changes early if the Sharks take advantage of new strategy.

For those thinking overwhelming defense to ride to the cup, think again. The teams that do it that way are Jennings/Vezina caliber. That won't happen with Niemi in goal and I don't see any available goalie that would (there are some goalies who are not available). Top 5 doesn't cut it, top 3 or bust. If the Sharks are going to make a run it has to be done with offense.
I never said CUP thru D. I said 4-6 seed and That is still doable. Top 5 in GAA will get you in the playoffs and with the offense already here that should net something above a 7 or 8 seed as well. I do agree that a key will be seeing an improved strategy especially on the PK.

The Wings will suck this year. They will drop out of the top 8 and will not even be a bubble team. They don't have the horses anymore. Phoenix will be out too after loosing 2 of their best. If they trade Yandle they'll be a lotto pick. The kings will be good but they are a good matchup for us for some reason. They might even have a stanley cup hang over but I wouldn't count on it. Anahiem will still miss the playoffs again so Dallas and the kings are our only competition for the division which is potentially doable. That means a top 3 seed is entirely possible and reasonable.


Last edited by NWShark*: 07-26-2012 at 06:42 PM.
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Old
07-26-2012, 06:37 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Not all of this is for you, just elucidating my thinking.

Not sure about mocked, but I had the Sharks in low 100s for standings points. I predicted that they would at best be even with the previous year for offense and defense. I actually turned out more optimistic than the results warranted. I did predict that their PK would still be out to lunch as Handzus was NOT a fix. It was a strategy issue and not the players. When they started with Zeus/JT as their top PK pair, I knew they were in trouble. I did see the loss of Seto as that critical tweener being an issue.

My prediction for this year is bubble team and don't see any trade/acquisition as a cure for that. It is extemely difficult to move up and down the standings with off-season movement. Moving up is done through strategy or acquiring playmakers where the team lacked them previously. I give the Sharks a decent but less than 50/50 chance to surprise if they actually enact strategy changes with the coaching. It is the type of move that can be a good change. We should see changes early if the Sharks take advantage of new strategy.

For those thinking overwhelming defense to ride to the cup, think again. The teams that do it that way are Jennings/Vezina caliber. That won't happen with Niemi in goal and I don't see any available goalie that would (there are some goalies who are not available). Top 5 doesn't cut it, top 3 or bust. If the Sharks are going to make a run it has to be done with offense.
So do you think we need more playmakers? I thought that we already had quite a few of those? Also, not sure if by strategy you mean management strategy for team development or something more specific to coaching?

I agree that there is not going to be a quick fix for us but acquiring good young players is a step in the right direction. Right?

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Old
07-26-2012, 06:40 PM
  #88
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Havlat and Handzus are buddies. Plus they played on the same line together in Chicago before Handzus got injured.

Any chance we see Handzus and Havlat anchor our 3rd line? Keep in mind, Havlat was used in a 3rd line role with Chicago (though he played the point on the 1st PP unit) in his last season before he left for the Wild. That year, he had his best season and played with Andrew Ladd at LW and Dave Bolland at C.

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Old
07-26-2012, 06:43 PM
  #89
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I don't think they have enough players to put havlat on the 3rd line. That would mean a weak 2nd for sure...

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07-26-2012, 06:49 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
I don't think they have enough players to put havlat on the 3rd line. That would mean a weak 2nd for sure...
marleau-thornton-pavelski
clowe-couture-wingels (our second line last year)
sykora-handzus-havlat
galiardi-dejardin-burish

it certainly has balance.... i just dont think this group is a contender.... at least the defense will be top 5 this year

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07-26-2012, 06:54 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
So do you think we need more playmakers? I thought that we already had quite a few of those? Also, not sure if by strategy you mean management strategy for team development or something more specific to coaching?

I agree that there is not going to be a quick fix for us but acquiring good young players is a step in the right direction. Right?
Sharks won't improve with more playmakers, at least not standings points. An example of playmaker bounce is what NYR got with Richards last year. Buffalo did the same but blew it with strategy. A team has to lack playmakers to get the bounce.

In this context, I meant strategy of play, coaching. Ramsay is an AC that gave both Boston and Tampa strategy bounces. Hitch gave the Blues a strategy bounce last year as did Sutter for the Kings.


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Old
07-26-2012, 07:24 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Sharks won't improve with more playmakers, at least not standings points. An example of playmaker bounce is what NYR got with Richards last year. Buffalo did the same but blew it with strategy. A team has to lack playmakers to get the bounce.

In this context, I meant strategy of play, coaching. Ramsay is an AC that gave both Boston and Tampa strategy bounces. Hitch gave the Blues a strategy bounce last year as did Sutter for the Kings.
I am hoping the new coaches help TMac with the overall strategy and not just defense and PK. From what you are saying that could make a big difference.

I am also not a proponent of making major changes at the trade deadline. Adding one or two pieces is ok but not at the cost of team chemistry. I think with the change in coaching philosophy (if that happens) and the addition of 1-2 speedy tweeners we can definitely be a good playoff team.

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07-26-2012, 07:29 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
People said the exact same thing last year and we nearly missed the playoffs. In fact, I believe Easy and I were soundly mocked when we predicted that last season around this time. (I think it was Easy...)
The Sharks were a seed higher than the cup champions last year. Detriot, Nashville and Pheonix have only one way to go in the standings and that is down. Nashville to a lessor extent. I wouldn't be surprised if Minny misses the playoffs entirely. Dallas is a total unknown although I doubt their NHL 95 line will come through for them. Calgary and the Avs still suck.

You can toot your own horn all you want, but your doom and gloom is unwarranted.

I predict the Sharks will finish 4th or 3rd.

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07-26-2012, 07:38 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillermiller89 View Post
marleau-thornton-pavelski
clowe-couture-wingels (our second line last year)
sykora-handzus-havlat
galiardi-dejardin-burish

it certainly has balance.... i just dont think this group is a contender.... at least the defense will be top 5 this year
Handzus and Havlat didn't work well last year, and I don't want Wingels anywhere near the Top-6.

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07-26-2012, 07:49 PM
  #95
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I wouldnt be suprised if DW does not do anything until the start of the season.

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07-26-2012, 07:51 PM
  #96
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I wouldnt be suprised if DW does not do anything until the start of the season.
He still needs to sign 2 forwards

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07-26-2012, 07:51 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Handzus and Havlat didn't work well last year, and I don't want Wingels anywhere near the Top-6.
According to an article I read yesterday, Handzus was injuried (hip) most of the season. And after the 1st round destruction of the sharks, good old handgus got a shot in his butt. And hes all better now!

I expect 40G/40A.

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07-26-2012, 07:56 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
The Sharks were a seed higher than the cup champions last year. Detriot, Nashville and Pheonix have only one way to go in the standings and that is down. Nashville to a lessor extent. I wouldn't be surprised if Minny misses the playoffs entirely. Dallas is a total unknown although I doubt their NHL 95 line will come through for them. Calgary and the Avs still suck.

You can toot your own horn all you want, but your doom and gloom is unwarranted.

I predict the Sharks will finish 4th or 3rd.
I see the Sharks as the 5-7 place team in the west.

Vancouver+LA+STL top3. Chicago is #4. Us, Phoenix, Minny, Nashville, Detriot, EDMONTON all contend for 5-8.

Nashville pulls a Phoenix. Their system works so well for them, no matter who they have playing it. Josi looks like Suter lite, so he steps in, and their abundance of top D prospects feeds a 5-6 guy to amaze us all.

Edmonton should turn things around. I see them as 10th, but they will compete.

Detriot always finds a way. Dont count them out until they die.

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07-26-2012, 08:09 PM
  #99
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"The Sharks could have offered a similar, or even a better package without giving up Couture. How does Ryane Clowe, Joe Pavelski, Jason Demers, Alex Stalock, and a first round pick sound? Much better than what the Blue Jackets got from the Rangers."


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Old
07-26-2012, 08:09 PM
  #100
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In: Brad Stuart, Adam Burish

Out: Daniel Winnik, Dominic Moore, Torrey Mitchell, Benn Ferriero, Brad Winchester, Jim Vandermeer, Colin White

You'd have to be insane to think this year's roster is better than last year's IMO. Forward depth was one of our biggest issues last year and it has only gotten worse

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