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How are the Coyotes going to reach the cap floor?

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07-26-2012, 04:16 PM
  #1
Ched Brosky
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How are the Coyotes going to reach the cap floor?

Canucks fan coming in peace. According to capgeek they have 1 roster spot open and have just under 10M left to spend to reach the floor. Are they planning on just giving Doan a 10M contract? What if Doan signs elsewhere?

Would Phoenix be open to taking cap dumps for extra picks/prospects to reach the floor and further stock pile their impressive group of young players and prospects?

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07-26-2012, 04:40 PM
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DesertDawg
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Currently there is no salary cap floor, technically it isn't instituted during the off season and the CBA will expire before the start of the season! It will depend on the new CBA and should be lower than expected!!!

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07-26-2012, 04:50 PM
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Err... there's probably more pressing matters at hand than the cap floor.

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07-26-2012, 04:53 PM
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Ched Brosky
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
Currently there is no salary cap floor, technically it isn't instituted during the off season and the CBA will expire before the start of the season! It will depend on the new CBA and should be lower than expected!!!
Well if talks are on-going between the NHL and NHLPA the season is allowed to continue under the current CBA if both sides allow it. I don't see why the NHLPA would be against it. The NHL might be but if negotiations are going okay or even better I don't see why they would want to upset the PA by cancelling it as well.

I guess by the end of August if this scenario comes to fruition, the Coyotes will be taking on cap dumps for a cheap beneficiary price to reach the floor.

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07-26-2012, 05:17 PM
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Well if talks are on-going between the NHL and NHLPA the season is allowed to continue under the current CBA if both sides allow it. I don't see why the NHLPA would be against it. The NHL might be but if negotiations are going okay or even better I don't see why they would want to upset the PA by cancelling it as well.

I guess by the end of August if this scenario comes to fruition, the Coyotes will be taking on cap dumps for a cheap beneficiary price to reach the floor.
So you are saying that the NHLPA won't be against a cap floor? Then they would accept roll backs instead (seems to me that lowering the cap is better than roll backs)? IMO, the argument for roll backs is a question of revenue sharing (or the answer) and franchises making a profit. The argument for a salary cap floor is to force franchises (to field a team) to remain competitive. The Coyotes can remain competitive and field a team under budget (and what is perceived as the floor). Forcing them to trade for bad contracts will take away that and deplete their current roster by those spots. And if they don't comply, then what will the league do in that scenario? The Coyotes have an internal budget larger than last season, but haven't found the right trade yet! Perhaps the league should force the Canucks to trade Kesler for a draft pick then. Since the league currently owns the Coyotes, it would be beneficial to the league for them to do it! I'm sure tha Canucks would recuperate from that.

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07-26-2012, 05:36 PM
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Ched Brosky
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
So you are saying that the NHLPA won't be against a cap floor? Then they would accept roll backs instead (seems to me that lowering the cap is better than roll backs)? IMO, the argument for roll backs is a question of revenue sharing (or the answer) and franchises making a profit. The argument for a salary cap floor is to force franchises (to field a team) to remain competitive. The Coyotes can remain competitive and field a team under budget (and what is perceived as the floor). Forcing them to trade for bad contracts will take away that and deplete their current roster by those spots. And if they don't comply, then what will the league do in that scenario? The Coyotes have an internal budget larger than last season, but haven't found the right trade yet! Perhaps the league should force the Canucks to trade Kesler for a draft pick then. Since the league currently owns the Coyotes, it would be beneficial to the league for them to do it! I'm sure tha Canucks would recuperate from that.
If the cap does comes down rollbacks will be non negotiable just like 7 years ago. Since teams are already spending to the 70M cap and those teams would be screwed if there is no roll back just like they would have been 7 years ago. Since the roll back is going to be there, having a floor benefits the PA as it forces lower budget teams to spend more money on players than they would be willing to. Meaning the players get bigger pay-checks as it forces top teams to pony up a bit more as well instead of saying u have no other option.

Perfect example is Semin. Top teams wanted him at under 5M, he wanted over 5M and since no top team was willing to do that he got 7M from a team that used to be a budget team that spent only to the floor. That team with him is only 3M above what the floor is if the season started today

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07-26-2012, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Well if talks are on-going between the NHL and NHLPA the season is allowed to continue under the current CBA if both sides allow it. I don't see why the NHLPA would be against it. The NHL might be but if negotiations are going okay or even better I don't see why they would want to upset the PA by cancelling it as well.

I guess by the end of August if this scenario comes to fruition, the Coyotes will be taking on cap dumps for a cheap beneficiary price to reach the floor.
The speculation about the floor is fairly meaningless until we know what the floor will be. Also, we dont have any idea what our roster is going to look like until after Shane Doan makes a decision, one way or the other.

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07-26-2012, 06:01 PM
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I could see new contracts for Smith and OEL that would push the team towards the existing floor at least.

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07-26-2012, 06:26 PM
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I do believe there will be a roll back, because the players revenue will be reduced. It will effect the salary cap ceiling, the floor, however will be changed in the calculation of it. I seriously doubt that it will stay a hard $16Mil less than the ceiling (which, IMO, was part of the problem) but go to 2/3 of the ceiling. So my guess would be that the floor goes to ~ $48Mil before roll backs...

Quote:
I could see new contracts for Smith and OEL that would push the team towards the existing floor at least.
they will already be under contract by the beginning of the season and won't have any impact on this season's cap #s

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07-26-2012, 07:37 PM
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Tim Thomas.

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07-26-2012, 07:56 PM
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I've heard Tim Thomas' name float around, but first of all, why would we want to waste cap space on a guy that isn't going to play this season when we could waste cap space on some over-paid veteran that at least would contribute some playing time and points to the team? And second of all, why would we get a guy that would definitely not want to play second fiddle to Smith when we already have Smith? Makes no sense to me-- seriously doubt he would ever want to come to the desert in the first place.

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07-26-2012, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by strizzy16 View Post
I've heard Tim Thomas' name float around, but first of all, why would we want to waste cap space on a guy that isn't going to play this season when we could waste cap space on some over-paid veteran that at least would contribute some playing time and points to the team? And second of all, why would we get a guy that would definitely not want to play second fiddle to Smith when we already have Smith? Makes no sense to me-- seriously doubt he would ever want to come to the desert in the first place.
Cap hit is not the same as salary. We would own his rights and because of his age, we would incur his cap hit. However, we would never have to pay him one actual red cent and he'd never actually have to come to Phoenix. We would essentially acquire his cap hit only and nothing else. No player, and no money.

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07-26-2012, 08:30 PM
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And if Boston is interested in making other moves, it's conceivable that we could finagle something useful out of the endeavour if they want to add cap space.

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07-26-2012, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Cap hit is not the same as salary. We would own his rights and because of his age, we would incur his cap hit. However, we would never have to pay him one actual red cent and he'd never actually have to come to Phoenix. We would essentially acquire his cap hit only and nothing else. No player, and no money.
Exactly. While a clever idea to reach the floor, it does not sound like a move Maloney would make. If we lose Doan, i see him making a couple of trades for guys who are making good money, but are underperforming. Thomas would give us no help, but say Gomez and his ridiculous contract end up in Phoenix..we have a fourth line center. I could also see him giving contract extensions to players such as OEL, Smith, and possibly even Vrbata so he wont have to worrt about signing them in the future. We never wanted to be in thia position with Doan, so if we can lock up more guys we never want to lose right now instead of right before they become free agents, it makes things easier for Maloney and gives us fans some relief.

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07-26-2012, 08:57 PM
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And if Boston is interested in making other moves, it's conceivable that we could finagle something useful out of the endeavour if they want to add cap space.
I agree, no sense helping them get cap space unless the Coyotes get an asset back or upgrade a position...

I have a theory that last season, the DON and Howson had an agreement about Vermette a lot earlier than when it actually went down (because of the internal salary cap) and believe that a deal with Toronto is imminent (and how big of a deal depends on Doan) and no need to happen right now...


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07-26-2012, 09:23 PM
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We don't have to do a trade, there is still value in FA. There is no reason for us to trade away assets yet until we know how some of our younger guys preform. Two forward FAs could get us there and I can count 6 or 7 that could fit well with the Coyotes.

Shane Doan - ~$4.5-6 Million
Andrei Kostitsyn - ~$3-3.5 Million
Eric Fehr - ~$1.5-2.5 Million
Tomas Holmstrom - ~$1.5-2 Million
Kristian Huselius - ~$3.5-5 Million
Cam Barker - ~$2-2.75 Million
Marco Strum - ~$2-2.5 Million
Mike Knuble - ~$1.5-2 Million

There is some talent to be had there, Doan being the biggest want and need. He also would get us real close to the cap floor should it turn out he signs here. Without him we could bring in the likes of Huselius to act as another winger that could play a top 6 role. I don't expect Sullivan to play more than 55 games due to injury so we would need a second guy that could step in. I'm pretty big on trying to get A.Kostitsyn and making him a short term project, maybe 2 year contract. If he pans out we can resign him to 4-5 years. Both of them would get us close if not make us hit this years "cap hit" and give us some guys who can play top 6 mins. Then adding Barker could be good as well as it would give us even more flexibility in trading dman, plus if he regains some of his offensive upside here in Phoenix I would be happy with the signing. Fehr is another guy who could play in the bottom 6 pairing and step up into top 6 when someone is injured, he is also injury prone like Sullivan but I'm ok with that so long as most of his playing time is limited as to reduce the risk.

Doan has just got this team on hold right now, once we know what he will be doing Im sure you will see a few good signings coming as well as potentially a trade though I cant think of anyone on the market that we could get for cheap, has a good cap hit/real money contract, and would be beneficial to the franchise.

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07-26-2012, 09:39 PM
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Cam Barker? He would be something like 11th on the depth chart!
Might as well re-sign Rosival (which I'm not advocating)

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07-26-2012, 09:40 PM
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Cam Barker? He would be something like 11th on the depth chart!
Might as well re-sign Rosival (which I'm not advocating)
I was always under the impression that he was defensively sound but lost his offensive touch. Am I wrong with this?

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07-26-2012, 11:44 PM
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...even the lowly Oilers didn't want him! And the Coyotes already have too many d-men...

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07-27-2012, 12:34 AM
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Exactly. While a clever idea to reach the floor, it does not sound like a move Maloney would make. If we lose Doan, i see him making a couple of trades for guys who are making good money, but are underperforming. Thomas would give us no help, but say Gomez and his ridiculous contract end up in Phoenix..we have a fourth line center. I could also see him giving contract extensions to players such as OEL, Smith, and possibly even Vrbata so he wont have to worrt about signing them in the future. We never wanted to be in thia position with Doan, so if we can lock up more guys we never want to lose right now instead of right before they become free agents, it makes things easier for Maloney and gives us fans some relief.
I immediately thought of Wade Redden when I read this post. If we're this far below the floor (though details are in limbo considering the expiring CBA/looming lockout), we can afford to give him a second chance in the NHL. But would he have to clear waivers to be recalled back up if we traded for him? I'm not so sure now that I think about it, but it could possibly be something we could explore.

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07-27-2012, 01:22 AM
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I was always under the impression that he was defensively sound but lost his offensive touch. Am I wrong with this?
I was a huge fan of Barker's when he was drafted, but he is not at all defensively sound. I'm sure he'd still put up points if you let him roam, but he was disinterested in his own end in Chicago and he didn't have much in the way of foot speed. He shoots the puck alot. That's pretty much his game. Getting Johnsson and Leddy for him was a steal.

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07-27-2012, 03:16 AM
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Now where's Ed Jovonowski when you really need him??


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07-27-2012, 04:32 AM
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We don't have to do a trade, there is still value in FA. There is no reason for us to trade away assets yet until we know how some of our younger guys preform. Two forward FAs could get us there and I can count 6 or 7 that could fit well with the Coyotes.

Shane Doan - ~$4.5-6 Million
Andrei Kostitsyn - ~$3-3.5 Million
Eric Fehr - ~$1.5-2.5 Million
Tomas Holmstrom - ~$1.5-2 Million
Kristian Huselius - ~$3.5-5 Million
Cam Barker - ~$2-2.75 Million
Marco Strum - ~$2-2.5 Million
Mike Knuble - ~$1.5-2 Million

There is some talent to be had there, Doan being the biggest want and need. He also would get us real close to the cap floor should it turn out he signs here. Without him we could bring in the likes of Huselius to act as another winger that could play a top 6 role. I don't expect Sullivan to play more than 55 games due to injury so we would need a second guy that could step in. I'm pretty big on trying to get A.Kostitsyn and making him a short term project, maybe 2 year contract. If he pans out we can resign him to 4-5 years. Both of them would get us close if not make us hit this years "cap hit" and give us some guys who can play top 6 mins. Then adding Barker could be good as well as it would give us even more flexibility in trading dman, plus if he regains some of his offensive upside here in Phoenix I would be happy with the signing. Fehr is another guy who could play in the bottom 6 pairing and step up into top 6 when someone is injured, he is also injury prone like Sullivan but I'm ok with that so long as most of his playing time is limited as to reduce the risk.

Doan has just got this team on hold right now, once we know what he will be doing Im sure you will see a few good signings coming as well as potentially a trade though I cant think of anyone on the market that we could get for cheap, has a good cap hit/real money contract, and would be beneficial to the franchise.
Holmstrom has said its Detroit or retire for him. Doesn't want to move his family from the motor city. Waiting for Holland to tell him if they have plans for him or not. Its a shame, perfect candidate to play with the Sedins.
Knuble has come out and said he wants to end his career in Detroit.
Huselius has not been medically cleared to play.
Barker sucks. The Oilers chose to not qualify him. The Oilers biggest need is D.
Sturm sucks as well.
Fehr could pay off for a team
Kostitsyn is probably going to Russia.
Doan's the best bet. If he doesn't sign in Van, I want him to sign with u guys or the Jets. (I honestly think these 3 teams are the only ones in the running and he's just meeting with other teams to be polite since they'e shown interest in him, hence why anytime news leaks that a team is interested in him,reports come out he is interested in playing for that team as well)

I never said the Coyotes will be trading away assets for cap dumps btw (seems like ur thinking that). I meant teams pay Coyotes a very small fee for taking a bad contract. The fee would have been bigger if the Coyotes were not in need of the contract

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07-27-2012, 05:14 AM
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I really hope we don't trade for Thomas even if it's just a cap deal thing because I don't want that homophobic wingnut anywhere close to our team.

Also, Doan isn't signing with the Jets. It's not going to happen, just deal with it.

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07-27-2012, 09:41 AM
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I really hope we don't trade for Thomas even if it's just a cap deal thing because I don't want that homophobic wingnut anywhere close to our team.

Also, Doan isn't signing with the Jets. It's not going to happen, just deal with it.
Huh? I thought he was a teabagging, libertarian wingnut? As in end all government regulations. As in even the regulations on federal marriage definitions. Less of a Palin and more of a Paul. I could be wrong, though.

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