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Old
08-13-2012, 09:26 AM
  #776
nyrpassion
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Originally Posted by Original Blue View Post
I wanted to post this in here so that I could be sure to get an opinion from anyone that wanted to put in their thoughts.

So just as something to think about as a possible idea...

I don't know about everyone else but I've been thinking that in the event that we go the clean slate route, which as I've said seems to add more problems with handling the confusion of restarting in a fair manner, I would still pursue to do all of my trades. It's not as if I would do anything differently, I would just have to do it again. The main thing is that a committee is installed to keep balance.

SO instead of just restarting clean what if we retroactively allow the chosen committee to go through and veto any of the trades it feels are unfair. This would appease the people that want to keep their teams as well as calm everyone who feels the league is too unbalanced to compete anymore. It also prevents certain teams from getting an advantage in the sense imagine if they made a fair trade, but it didn't pan out for them this season. They now they have the chance to reject it because they can play Monday morning QB...
I mean they seems like a good idea, but let's say I made a trade early in the game, I traded a piece I got in the "unfair" trade to another team already.

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08-13-2012, 09:32 AM
  #777
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Continue on and replace anyone that quits because their team stinks and they don't wanna play anymore.

But if we want to make things easy on everyone because life is hard, then a clean slate is the only way to go.

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08-13-2012, 09:34 AM
  #778
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See in my mind it's a non-issue.

Here's how I think about it...If the first trade never went through then any trade after that should be null and void for a very simple reason. The third or later team always had the potential to acquire a player from the original owner but was incapable of striking a deal so it was only until after a deemed illegal trade went through that they skirted the issue.

I personally don't see a reason for them to be compensated however, if you want to I would make a few responses:

1. Even with the committee I believe the number of trades that will be vetoed will be far fewer than what most people are imagining. I seriously am only expecting a max of 3-4 without naming the specific trades.

2. In the event that a trade is vetoed and that player was traded again than RKY you can organize with teams that traded that player to either: a)create new deals b) award compensation c) tell them to suck it up and move on because their deals should have never occurred in the first place. RKY as I said, I believe you should be badass commissioner on this and tell them to pipe down if they don't like it. I figure this beats all the issues with unfairness and delays that are caused by a complete clean slate just so we can instill a trade committee.

3. People obviously don't waste all the work they do because they will most likely keep many of the trades that are deemed fair.

4. We are also raising hypothetical issues that are solely a possibility in a very specific case. Not to mention, most players that are traded in overly lopsided trades generally are not the type of players the team that traded for him would be willing to then trade away. Lets just deal with the issues at hand: a)a few trades that have been made have been unfair b)we want to instill a committee that has the ability to veto stupid trades c) GM's should not have to feel like they have wasted a season because we start a completely clean slate arbitrarily


Last edited by Original Blue: 08-13-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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08-13-2012, 09:35 AM
  #779
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If u did decide to reset rosters why not use nhl 13 new team rosters? The game will be out in 3the weeks. Every1 keeps their team they have now. There are new players on all teams, Nash, Staal, ect... Game comes out 9/11 giving us plenty of time to do what we have to do b4 the season starts. Just an idea.

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08-13-2012, 09:45 AM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Rick Nashty View Post
Continue on and replace anyone that quits because their team stinks and they don't wanna play anymore.

But if we want to make things easy on everyone because life is hard, then a clean slate is the only way to go.
The only issue with this is, as many have mentioned. The ones that are going to leave/be inactive are the GM's with undesirable teams. Teams that have been destroyed so much that nobody will want to take over for them. I can think in my mind of a couple of teams that's already like that.

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08-13-2012, 09:46 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by HeaveHo94 View Post
If u did decide to reset rosters why not use nhl 13 new team rosters? The game will be out in 3the weeks. Every1 keeps their team they have now. There are new players on all teams, Nash, Staal, ect... Game comes out 9/11 giving us plenty of time to do what we have to do b4 the season starts. Just an idea.
Not a bad idea. Taken into consideration.

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08-13-2012, 09:50 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by Original Blue View Post
See in my mind it's a non-issue.

Here's how I think about it...If the first trade never went through then any trade after that should be null and void for a very simple reason. The third or later team always had the potential to acquire a player from the original owner but was incapable of striking a deal so it was only until after a deemed illegal trade went through that they skirted the issue.

I personally don't see a reason for them to be compensated however, if you want to I would make a few responses:

1. Even with the committee I believe the number of trades that will be vetoed will be far fewer than what most people are imagining. I seriously am only expecting a max of 3-4 without naming the specific trades.

2. In the event that a trade is vetoed and that player was traded again than RKY you can organize with teams that traded that player to either: a)create new deals b) award compensation c) tell them to suck it up and move on because their deals should have never occurred in the first place. RKY as I said, I believe you should be badass commissioner on this and tell them to pipe down if they don't like it. I figure this beats all the issues with unfairness and delays that are caused by a complete clean slate just so we can instill a trade committee.

3. People obviously don't waste all the work they do because they will most likely keep many of the trades that are deemed fair.

4. We are also raising hypothetical issues that are solely a possibility in a very specific case. Not to mention, most players that are traded in overly lopsided trades generally are not the type of players the team that traded for him would be willing to then trade away. Lets just deal with the issues at hand: a)a few trades that have been made have been unfair b)we want to instill a committee that has the ability to veto stupid trades c) GM's should not have to feel like they have wasted a season because we start a completely clean slate arbitrarily
I know that a majority of the traded are actually fine and don't need to be vetoed. The trades that do need to be vetoed (I can think of one specifically) where a player was traded to another 2-3 teams after the original deal that was bad. It may be too messy to deal with in a couple of circumstances. I'm not sure without looking but it may be a hard fix because then someone can also argue other trades are linked to the original trades because they wouldn't have made other deals that filled a void from a previous deal.

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08-13-2012, 09:52 AM
  #783
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Well, I am going to continue on with the game until we all decide.

Columbus has come to terms with a few RFA's

Roman Josi - 3 years @ 1.6 million/season

Jan Mursak - 1 year @.65 million

Zack Smith - 3 years @ 1.2 million/season

We feel that Roman can become a top-4 d-man in the near future and that Zack Smith offers us a good bottom-6, hard-nosed forward who can play center or wing.

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08-13-2012, 09:53 AM
  #784
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Originally Posted by Original Blue View Post
See in my mind it's a non-issue.

Here's how I think about it...If the first trade never went through then any trade after that should be null and void for a very simple reason. The third or later team always had the potential to acquire a player from the original owner but was incapable of striking a deal so it was only until after a deemed illegal trade went through that they skirted the issue.


I personally don't see a reason for them to be compensated however, if you want to I would make a few responses:

1. Even with the committee I believe the number of trades that will be vetoed will be far fewer than what most people are imagining. I seriously am only expecting a max of 3-4 without naming the specific trades.

2. In the event that a trade is vetoed and that player was traded again than RKY you can organize with teams that traded that player to either: a)create new deals b) award compensation c) tell them to suck it up and move on because their deals should have never occurred in the first place. RKY as I said, I believe you should be badass commissioner on this and tell them to pipe down if they don't like it. I figure this beats all the issues with unfairness and delays that are caused by a complete clean slate just so we can instill a trade committee.

3. People obviously don't waste all the work they do because they will most likely keep many of the trades that are deemed fair.

4. We are also raising hypothetical issues that are solely a possibility in a very specific case. Not to mention, most players that are traded in overly lopsided trades generally are not the type of players the team that traded for him would be willing to then trade away. Lets just deal with the issues at hand: a)a few trades that have been made have been unfair b)we want to instill a committee that has the ability to veto stupid trades c) GM's should not have to feel like they have wasted a season because we start a completely clean slate arbitrarily
Yeah I see where you're coming from. I can tell you right off the top of my head, that I made a **** trade (one of the first horrible ones), traded 1 or 2 pieces from that trade to another team, and then traded the return piece in another deal And yeah, the third team had a chance to et it from the original team, but sometimes the pieces you get in a other deal are the missing pieces to another deal. And sometimes the original team is just a bad trading partner with the final team. I see how you're saying it's only a handful of deals, and maybe my case is isolated, but it ends up affecting a handful of teams. But we can def look into your idea, I like it.


Last edited by nyrpassion: 08-13-2012 at 09:59 AM.
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Old
08-13-2012, 09:59 AM
  #785
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Just to build off this a bit I do have to agree with a few points that I'll get to in a sec.

As I've stated many times I think cleaning the slate will not solve any problems. Bad trades happen and teams still compete. Also, after finally reading through all the responses I have to say that it really feels like a lot of people who want a clean slate come off as ambivalent about that decision. I'm not saying everyone who wants a clean slate this comes off this way, but a definite majority does. I don't want to be rude and sound like I'm not considering the argument as there are legitimate claims, and maybe it's because how it's written, but the general demeanor from GM's who want a clean slate feels like their posts simply state a problem with a blind reason for wanting a clean slate as opposed to the GM's who want to keep the teams, but agree that changes need to be made. As I've said I'm sure people care, but trying to be as unbiased as I can it honestly comes off as the people who don't want a clean slate care more about the league and how to fix the problems within it.

I can empathize that it is more difficult to compete with certain teams when a lopsided trade occurs but that's real life and in my mind not a reason to start clean because as RKY said it's not that he has had a problem with many of the trades it's just been a select few. I can think a max of 3 that I would have vetoed, but beyond that it would've been a bit presumptuous of any of us to tell another GM how to run their team. Hey we just got Nash on what I consider a pretty lopsided trade and the rest of the league is thinking about starting clean

Now onto what DP was saying. I personally have enjoyed dealing with him and feel he does make some very valid points that RKY touches on as well. Guys this is in fact a fantasy league and I am absolutely having a blast with it, but there needs to be a certain level of respect that should occur when dealing with other people. Going after an individual for stating their opinion doesn't help and by no means does it make any one seem more correct. You don't have to agree with someone, but how dare any one of us rip into another for their opinion. Also, with regards to trades, I understand that this is no one's entire life, but a little common decency and sending a quick response back within a few days would really go a long way to help out the overall mood.

Also finally, Killem I'm sure you're reading through a bunch of these and shaking your head. My bad for being an ass last week, especially as the timing was so bad. I did felt misled, but should have realized that that wasn't your intention. Thinking about these posts made me realize I really have enjoyed shooting the ***** with you about everything going on in the league. I've enjoyed dealing with you and will do so going forward.
Hey man, first of all, thank you for that (not that it's needed) It was a long and terrible week for me, and i got upset over something small, I didn't know having a GM not want to work with me would make me so upset. It was personal things that were building up and I think I just got mad and, as a result, almost lost the ability to deal with one of the more active and sane GMs here. I wasn't lying when i said i look forward to working with you in the future.

I also read through everything and since last night have agreed with every point you made. A reset will not solve any problems and honestly it seems to cater to the GMs who have ruined their team/don't like their team/signed onto a team that got destroyed. One of the coolest things about any fantasy GM game is that we get to take bad teams and turn them around. If a GM can't turn their team around then find a GM who can.

To also touch base on something OB brought up, some of the GMs that vote for a reset do sound a bit indifferent about the whole thing, and also, I think some GMs are viewing it like they get a brand new team for more trading. For me, i love my team now and i hated the Habs when i got them. I've grown to love every player and prospect and moving towards the future with my team was something that kept me absolutely intrigued and vividly engulfed in this game. It wouldn't be a problem if a reset was chosen, to just pick up and reassemble this same exact team, but why should i have to?

Brings me to another point, I like Heave a lot and he's an active GM and a good dude. He said he comes on 10 mins a week to play the game and thats alright. At least he's playing and he's very active. While I know 10 mins a week is an exaggeration, I literally spend hours a day here and working on my team. I know I have more time than others (with my bad shoulder and the fact that i sit at my laptop for a living) I have learned a lot about the prospects that i've acquired and the players on my team. Where they will play next season. Who I need to sign/trade to fill holes in my team...etc. I wasn't playing this quick sim as if I was going to have fun trading for a couple months and then start over. I don't understand why anyone would want to do that?

It's ultimately up to RKY and like i said before, I will go with the flow and I won't get angry or upset in any way, I'll just take a breathe and start over. But I have to agree with OB here, a reset would not fix anything. Those who destroyed their teams will do it again. It only punishes the ones who have put in the most effort towards actually building a team.

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08-13-2012, 10:00 AM
  #786
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post


Well, I am going to continue on with the game until we all decide.

Columbus has come to terms with a few RFA's

Roman Josi - 3 years @ 1.6 million/season

Jan Mursak - 1 year @.65 million

Zack Smith - 3 years @ 1.2 million/season

We feel that Roman can become a top-4 d-man in the near future and that Zack Smith offers us a good bottom-6, hard-nosed forward who can play center or wing.
What? Free agency isn't open. You can't sign anyone yet.

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08-13-2012, 10:04 AM
  #787
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Teams won't make bad trades again because we/I won't allow it to happen this time.

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08-13-2012, 10:06 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post

To also touch base on something OB brought up, some of the GMs that vote for a reset do sound a bit indifferent about the whole thing, and also, I think some GMs are viewing it like they get a brand new team for more trading. For me, i love my team now and i hated the Habs when i got them. I've grown to love every player and prospect and moving towards the future with my team was something that kept me absolutely intrigued and vividly engulfed in this game. It wouldn't be a problem if a reset was chosen, to just pick up and reassemble this same exact team, but why should i have to?
When I got Phoenix, I barely did any research, knew almost nothing about their prospect pipeline or anything. Now, I know almost everything. I made a horrible trade in the beginning, that if we start over would absolutely NOT make again. I'm not advocating for a reset, but just saying that several teams made bad choices and would like to have a second chance. What tears me is that even though I ****ed up in the beginning, I feel I am heading in the right direction (traded up to get the 4th overall ), and learned to embrace my mistakes and turn it into something positive. This is why I'M indifferent, if we reset ((I don't know others story), I get a second chance, make better decisions and moves, and if we stay the same, I learned to live with my mistakes, and know I'm on a road headed in the right direction, so I am fine with either.

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08-13-2012, 10:07 AM
  #789
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What if you took a model from online strategy games (Ie: travian, lord of ultima, utopia) and reset the "world" after an allotted time. Say in this case, three seasons. Then the game resets and you can move onto the next game (nhl13) and you can determine how many seasons you can run throughout the yeay. For example, say in a years time you can run 10 seasons. Between 9/11/12 and 9/11/13 you run those 10 seasons and the game "ends" and the world resets for the 13-14 season in NHL 14.

Just a thought.

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08-13-2012, 10:07 AM
  #790
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Alrighty then, my apologies I was away for the weekend. I will wait on those

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08-13-2012, 10:11 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post


Well, I am going to continue on with the game until we all decide.

Columbus has come to terms with a few RFA's

Roman Josi - 3 years @ 1.6 million/season

Jan Mursak - 1 year @.65 million

Zack Smith - 3 years @ 1.2 million/season

We feel that Roman can become a top-4 d-man in the near future and that Zack Smith offers us a good bottom-6, hard-nosed forward who can play center or wing.
Its the wild wild west out there... lol

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08-13-2012, 10:14 AM
  #792
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Teams won't make bad trades again because we/I won't allow it to happen this time.
I will write on the black board. "I WILL NOT MAKE BAD TRADES AGAIN" 100X

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08-13-2012, 10:15 AM
  #793
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When I got Phoenix, I barely did any research, knew almost nothing about their prospect pipeline or anything. Now, I know almost everything. I made a horrible trade in the beginning, that if we start over would absolutely NOT make again. I'm not advocating for a reset, but just saying that several teams made bad choices and would like to have a second chance. What tears me is that even thought I ****ed up in the beginning, I feel I am heading in the right direction (traded up to get the 4th overall ), and learned to embrace my mistakes and turn it into something positive. This is why I'M indifferent, if we reset ((I don't know others story). I get a second chance, make better decisions and moves, and if we stay the same, I learned to live with my mistakes, and know I'm on a road headed in the right direction, so I am fine with either.
haha right on man. Look, I'm not going to go against the grain here. If the majority wants to reset then I'm all about it, I'll pick up and start getting my team back. I know you're passionate about this game, i hope you don't think I was directing anything toward you. Sure, if we reset, Ill trade for my roster as it is now instead of taking all the in between steps to get here IE Downie, Radulov, Tyutin..etc.. I wont cry or beat my family over it, I'll go with the flow, it's cool. I'm just surprised not more people want to keep the game going. Especially so close to the draft.

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08-13-2012, 10:15 AM
  #794
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Ok thanks, I was confused for a sec lol.

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08-13-2012, 10:18 AM
  #795
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haha right on man. Look, I'm not going to go against the grain here. If the majority wants to reset then I'm all about it, I'll pick up and start getting my team back. I know you're passionate about this game, i hope you don't think I was directing anything toward you. Sure, if we reset, Ill trade for my roster as it is now instead of taking all the in between steps to get here IE Downie, Radulov, Tyutin..etc.. I wont cry or beat my family over it, I'll go with the flow, it's cool. I'm just surprised not more people want to keep the game going. Especially so close to the draft.
No, no, not at all. I was just trying to justify the other side's claims.

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08-13-2012, 10:32 AM
  #796
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The other thing I would like to know is if anyone is so absolutely against a reset (again if it was chosen) that they'd not want to take part in the game again. That could be a factor.

In regards to the people that said they would just build their team right back to where they were, I'm more than fine with that, in fact I would embrace that because it would make me feel better about resetting the rosters. What the reset would have an effect on is (admittedly by nyrp) given some teams a better shake. Let's face it there are 3-4 teams that are in such bad shape right now that it would literally take them years to get back to being competitive. Who knows if some of those GM's will stay active. I know 1-2 that aren't already. So you guys can build up your team again to basically the same thing, but there will be more balance in the league with some of the lesser teams not making bad mistakes.

This would be more do for them then it would be because of the lopsided deals.

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08-13-2012, 10:35 AM
  #797
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In the event of a reset, what woul be the situation with a guy like Parise, who's a free agent at the end of our season?

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08-13-2012, 10:40 AM
  #798
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
A reset will not solve any problems and honestly it seems to cater to the GMs who have ruined their team/don't like their team/signed onto a team that got destroyed. One of the coolest things about any fantasy GM game is that we get to take bad teams and turn them around. If a GM can't turn their team around then find a GM who can.

To also touch base on something OB brought up, some of the GMs that vote for a reset do sound a bit indifferent about the whole thing, and also, I think some GMs are viewing it like they get a brand new team for more trading. For me, i love my team now and i hated the Habs when i got them. I've grown to love every player and prospect and moving towards the future with my team was something that kept me absolutely intrigued and vividly engulfed in this game. It wouldn't be a problem if a reset was chosen, to just pick up and reassemble this same exact team, but why should i have to?
I think this is the unspoken undertone that is going on that many GM's, excluding a select few, are unwilling to talk about. Sting was one of the more vocal people to recognize the problem early on, but instead of going forward with solutions in a very few select cases we've blown this up to give redemption in an unwarranted situation.

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08-13-2012, 10:40 AM
  #799
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No, no, not at all. I was just trying to justify the other side's claims.
Ah ok good haha because I honestly don't have a problem with anything other than a few unrealistic trades.

That said, honestly, I have made the 2 most unrealistic trades in this entire game. I'm not innocent. lol I would happily give those players back if we can still keep our teams and not reset. The trade also upset some people and I think still upset some people and no one wants to make anyone upset.

I'm not perfect, but my Gawd, I wish you guys could see the files i have on my Comp. Organized files about every player/prospect/trade/salary..the list goes on and on. Also, nothing to do with you but i already quoted your post so haha..the people/person talking like this is RKYs league and we are all just pieces of **** who don't put in nearlllyyy as much time as him, needs to stop. I like RKY as much as the next guy and i show my respect to him and how much he does every day. I don't think there's a bone in RKY's body that doesn't believe that i don't appreciate him and running this league looks to me like Ulcer City, but don't write off the GMs as not doing nearly as much work. If only yuo guys could see my supernerd setup here. Again, I know i have more time than most people, but unless you know another GM don't speak for them.

Again, thats not for you buddy. lol

Also, when i see "ryrpassion" i think "oh, thats Coyotes" haha same for all the other GMs. This game blew up recently, but for the most part, the GMs get along and we are all deeply into this game (for the most part? i dont know all the GMs)

Killem Dafoe is offline  
Old
08-13-2012, 10:43 AM
  #800
Original Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
The other thing I would like to know is if anyone is so absolutely against a reset (again if it was chosen) that they'd not want to take part in the game again. That could be a factor.

In regards to the people that said they would just build their team right back to where they were, I'm more than fine with that, in fact I would embrace that because it would make me feel better about resetting the rosters. What the reset would have an effect on is (admittedly by nyrp) given some teams a better shake. Let's face it there are 3-4 teams that are in such bad shape right now that it would literally take them years to get back to being competitive. Who knows if some of those GM's will stay active. I know 1-2 that aren't already. So you guys can build up your team again to basically the same thing, but there will be more balance in the league with some of the lesser teams not making bad mistakes.

This would be more do for them then it would be because of the lopsided deals.
I would not be apposed to this, but really would want to make it so that trades must be confirmed if one side wants it as long as a committee retroactively decides it is not veto worthy. Teams should not be given a chance to turn down a trade that was fair and agreed upon before just because it didn't go their way.

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