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Top 10 most skilled Russian forward all-time

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Old
07-10-2012, 10:38 AM
  #1
Hockeysemin
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Top 10 most skilled Russian forward all-time

Top 10 most skilled Russian forward all-time, (not who is the best player, its who is more skilled/exiting/best 1on1/danglemastering etc..) do you agree or disagree, who is missing and post your top ten list



10. Alexander Ovechkin
9. Alexander Maltsev
8. Alexander Mogilny
7. Sergei Fedorov
6. Evgeni Malkin
5. Sergei Makarov
4. Alexei Kovalev
3. Valeri Kharlamov
2. Pavel Datsyuk
1. Pavel Bure

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Old
07-10-2012, 03:39 PM
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the edler
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where is valeri bure?

or semin? you know if he cared he would easily be the best player in the league

no, but i would rank mogilny in front of kovalev

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07-10-2012, 03:42 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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among guys i saw in their primes (this excludes makarov and anyone before him), i actually would put mogilny #1.

he didn't have fedorov's defensive ability obviously, and he wasn't quite as fast as bure, but neither of them were in mogilny's galaxy in terms of offensive vision. in terms of the total package (and i'm really just talking about offensive skill set), mogilny was the best.

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07-11-2012, 10:56 AM
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Sentinel
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I would exclude Kovalev altogether. If you care at all about offensive vision, you would include Larionov. Oh, and I have a soft spot for Kamensky.

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07-11-2012, 11:10 AM
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Slapshooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
I would exclude Kovalev altogether. If you care at all about offensive vision, you would include Larionov. Oh, and I have a soft spot for Kamensky.
When original posters definition of "skill" is:
Quote:
not who is the best player, its who is more skilled/exiting/best 1on1/danglemastering etc.
That pretty much narrows it to stick handling, flashy dekes etc. and that screams Alexei Kovalev.

In these terms, I would actually exclude Ovechkin from top 10. He has phenomenal desire, speed, strenght etc., but there have been a lot more flashy stickhandlers and "danglemasters" than him.

Even obscure Russian journeyman like Viktor Kozlov (that big, dying beggar's Mario Lemieux) is likely better stickhandler than Ovechkin.

Add Vladimir Malakhov.

(I mean this is "lazy and skilled Russians" -thread, right? )

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07-11-2012, 11:13 AM
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VanIslander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulle View Post
10. Alexander Ovechkin
9. Alexander Maltsev
8. Alexander Mogilny
7. Sergei Fedorov
6. Evgeni Malkin
5. Sergei Makarov
4. Alexei Kovalev
3. Valeri Kharlamov
2. Pavel Datsyuk
1. Pavel Bure
Pfft.

ADD: Mikhailov, Larionov, Firsov
DROP: Maltsev, Mogilny, Kovalev.

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Old
07-11-2012, 11:34 AM
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unknown33
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I think Kovalev's potential and skill is getting VERY overrated...

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07-11-2012, 12:06 PM
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Theokritos
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Ivan Cournoyer (Иван Курнуайе́ ). Fine stickhandler at high speed. Played in the 1972 Summit Series too. Was never honoured as a Merited Master of Sport of the USSR though.

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Old
07-11-2012, 01:27 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Pfft.

ADD: Mikhailov, Larionov, Firsov
DROP: Maltsev, Mogilny, Kovalev.
Mikhailov, more SKILLED than Maltsev? Maybe he got better results, but that not what I'm interpreting the question as.

if it was about getting results, Kharlamov, Fedorov, Ovechkin, Mikhailov would be top-4 in some order (basically the order we'd take them in an ATD) but the OP had them 3rd, 7th, 10th, and not rated.

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07-11-2012, 01:55 PM
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Canadiens1958
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Skilled

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Mikhailov, more SKILLED than Maltsev? Maybe he got better results, but that not what I'm interpreting the question as.

if it was about getting results, Kharlamov, Fedorov, Ovechkin, Mikhailov would be top-4 in some order (basically the order we'd take them in an ATD) but the OP had them 3rd, 7th, 10th, and not rated.
Watching the games gave you that impression, watching the Soviets practice when they toured and stopped in Montreal would support the view that Mikhailov was very skilled.

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07-11-2012, 02:17 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Watching the games gave you that impression, watching the Soviets practice when they toured and stopped in Montreal would support the view that Mikhailov was very skilled.
Everything I have read suggests Mikhailov wasn't visibly skilled and was more of a grunt compared to his linemates, but succeeded on hard work and grit, and taking punishment in the crease.

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07-11-2012, 03:14 PM
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Datsyuk is way too high IMO

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07-11-2012, 03:19 PM
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Canadiens1958
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Skilled

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Everything I have read suggests Mikhailov wasn't visibly skilled and was more of a grunt compared to his linemates, but succeeded on hard work and grit, and taking punishment in the crease.
Depends on how large of a skill tool box is considered. Examples of what Mikhailov could do that very few of the other Soviet players could do as well. Control and stick handle with the puck in corners, behind the net and other tight situations. Play the puck with his feet in various situations, Make forehand and backhand passes out of tight situations. Master of deflections.

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07-11-2012, 04:46 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Depends on how large of a skill tool box is considered. Examples of what Mikhailov could do that very few of the other Soviet players could do as well. Control and stick handle with the puck in corners, behind the net and other tight situations. Play the puck with his feet in various situations, Make forehand and backhand passes out of tight situations. Master of deflections.
I agree those are all skills. i don't think that ultimately fits with what the OP wanted though, based on having Bure 1st and Kovalev 4th. Sounds like "skills" means speed, flash and dekes. Mikhailov wasn't that type of player.

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07-11-2012, 05:00 PM
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Canadiens1958
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More Inclusive

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I agree those are all skills. i don't think that ultimately fits with what the OP wanted though, based on having Bure 1st and Kovalev 4th. Sounds like "skills" means speed, flash and dekes. Mikhailov wasn't that type of player.
I feel the OP was more inclusive. Example Kovalev consider the cute hit on Tucker, Bure on Churla, Datsyuk's defensive skills. I see vanIslanders' point.

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07-11-2012, 05:22 PM
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I Hate Chris Butler
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Fedorov at 7 is too low.

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07-11-2012, 06:03 PM
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Dennis Bonvie
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Firsov, Krutov, Petrov.

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07-11-2012, 06:39 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
I feel the OP was more inclusive. Example Kovalev consider the cute hit on Tucker, Bure on Churla, Datsyuk's defensive skills. I see vanIslanders' point.
I'm not so sure of that, why would they put an all-around talent like Fedorov 7th, then?

I thought I was the only one who remembered Kovalev on Tucker.

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07-11-2012, 07:06 PM
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Canadiens1958
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Skilled

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I'm not so sure of that, why would they put an all-around talent like Fedorov 7th, then?

I thought I was the only one who remembered Kovalev on Tucker.
The all-around talent of Fedorov points the list in the direction that I see. The 7th ranking could be a function of his glamour skills being limited to the glamour niche without that extra oomph. Example very good passer but are there any really memorable passes? His Mikhailov skills were better than a number of the glamour players but far from Mikhailov.

Many others do as well.

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07-13-2012, 06:58 AM
  #20
VMBM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Firsov, Krutov, Petrov.
Really?

Stickhandling, passing, strength... yes.

Skating, speed, 1-on-1 skills... I'd have to say no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Depends on how large of a skill tool box is considered. Examples of what Mikhailov could do that very few of the other Soviet players could do as well. Control and stick handle with the puck in corners, behind the net and other tight situations. Play the puck with his feet in various situations, Make forehand and backhand passes out of tight situations. Master of deflections.
Yes, Russians indeed usually appreciate different kinds of skills than the ones Mikhailov had.

I guess I used to be like that too, but I've really started to 'see the light', as far as Mikhailov is concerned. Can't put Mikhailov behind Maltsev, for example, on all-time lists and such anymore.

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07-13-2012, 10:19 AM
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double5son10
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Since he's Latvian Helmuts Balderis wouldn't technically count for this list, but for Russian league/Soviet National team players he's way up there in the skill department.

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Old
07-13-2012, 08:06 PM
  #22
Kharlamov17
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10. Ovechkin
9. Krutov
8. Maltsev
7. Makarov
6. Malkin
5. Datsyuk
4. Kovalchuk
3. Pavel Bure
2. Fedorov
1. Kharlamov


From my perspective, no one compares to Kharlamov. If the list was open to all Soviet players, I'd rate Balderis as second on the list.

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07-13-2012, 08:20 PM
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Sentinel
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Your ranking of Kovalchuk ahead of Datsyuk invalidates your list completely.

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07-13-2012, 08:22 PM
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A little shocked at the lack of respect that Boris Mikhailov is receiving in this thread.

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Old
07-13-2012, 08:29 PM
  #25
Kharlamov17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Your ranking of Kovalchuk ahead of Datsyuk invalidates your list completely.
That's a valid point, but I don't think it invalidates the list completely. I would argue that the failure of others to include Kovalchuk on their lists is a major oversight. He was an explosive player in his early years and will almost certainly finish his career as the top Russian goal scorer in NHL history.

I also would not put Mikhailov on my list, because his game was predicated on toughness as much as skill.

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