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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part XXI: Weepy Tears & Angst (A. Kostitsyn Edition)

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07-28-2012, 05:35 PM
  #726
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Sure, not for free agents. Parise and Hamhuis wanted to go play for their hometown team, Suter wanted to stay in the Western Conference and Jagr wanted more money.

This is the trade market though, Waddell and Shero have been good friends from what I hear, Waddell drafted Heatley in 2000. He also traded Hossa and Dupuis to Shero and Fletcher in 2008. The front office connection is there.
Well, there aren't any examples of trades, either. Shero's made big deals with Atlanta, Anaheim, Dallas, and Carolina, none of which had connections as a contributor.

All this points to the conclusion that respective team strengths and weaknesses have been by far the main factor in player acquisitions, and connections have had little role to play, if any, for our team. I wouldn't count on them becoming a factor anytime soon.

They're just fodder trade rumour sites that have precious little to go on.

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07-28-2012, 05:35 PM
  #727
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Well I agree that Bylsma/Shero need to **** or get off the pot with him.
that's all I want. There's no reason we should still have these questions. There have been enough injuries that he should have had at least a few consecutive weeks with 3rd line time over the last two years.

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07-28-2012, 05:35 PM
  #728
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You can't just magically give Tangradi a spot he has not earned. In that lineup...why Tangradi as 3RW over Kennedy?

What has he done to earn it? How did Talbot end up as 2RW in 09? He was the 4C, played hard with emotion, and earned the opportunity. Once there, he seized the opportunity that forced DB to keep him there. Tangradi has not done so. In the shifts he's gotten in the Top 6 or with Sid/Geno...he's not do anything that warrants more of a look yet.

Eric...take the 4th line time when you can get it. Work hard and get seize the opportunity. You will not be gifted a position with the team.

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Old
07-28-2012, 05:38 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
You can't just magically give Tangradi a spot he has not earned. In that lineup...why Tangradi as 3RW over Kennedy?

What has he done to earn it? How did Talbot end up as 2RW in 09? He was the 4C, played hard with emotion, and earned the opportunity. Once there, he seized the opportunity that forced DB to keep him there. Tangradi has not done so. In the shifts he's gotten in the Top 6 or with Sid/Geno...he's not do anything that warrants more of a look yet.

Eric...take the 4th line time when you can get it. Work hard and get seize the opportunity. You will not be gifted a position with the team.
assume everybody that puts Tangradi in a spot higher on the depth chart than you would put him is placing him there under the assumption that he earns that spot at camp. NOBODY thinks we should just default him a spot. We think that's where he could end up if he has a strong showing at camp.

But trust me, there's no way Eric Tangradi thinks he's being gifted a spot on our team. Bylsma has made that abundantly clear.

as for the bold line, I completely disagree. He's done a lot of good things. He just hasn't scored.

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07-28-2012, 05:41 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
You can't just magically give Tangradi a spot he has not earned. In that lineup...why Tangradi as 3RW over Kennedy?

What has he done to earn it? How did Talbot end up as 2RW in 09? He was the 4C, played hard with emotion, and earned the opportunity. Once there, he seized the opportunity that forced DB to keep him there. Tangradi has not done so. In the shifts he's gotten in the Top 6 or with Sid/Geno...he's not do anything that warrants more of a look yet.

Eric...take the 4th line time when you can get it. Work hard and get seize the opportunity. You will not be gifted a position with the team.
It took Crosby and Hossa, two elite players in the NHL, nearly a month to develop chemistry together. Again, thats two elite players and even they didn't just magically start producing amazing numbers right off the jump. Now, you add a rookie in Tangradi into that picture and its no surprise he hasn't developed any chemistry with our top six when he's seen a handful of minutes there.

It's common knowledge that power forwards take more time to develop. At the end of last year, he was looking a lot better. This year, give him his shot to make the top six and pray it pans out. I'd much rather that happen than Tyler "where offense goes to die/logo sniper" Kennedy be in the top six. Even if Tangradi just becomes a big body that can dig pucks out for Sid, I'd rather that happen.

Maybe I'm bias because I think Kennedy is a horrible hockey player, outside of his 3rd line role, where he should be crashing bodies and disturbing the peace.

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07-28-2012, 05:45 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
assume everybody that puts Tangradi in a spot higher on the depth chart than you would put him is placing him there under the assumption that he earns that spot at camp. NOBODY thinks we should just default him a spot. We think that's where he could end up if he has a strong showing at camp.

But trust me, there's no way Eric Tangradi thinks he's being gifted a spot on our team. Bylsma has made that abundantly clear.
Logical but I'm not buying it. There have been countless replies to the effect of "**** or get off the pot, lets see what we have with him, he can't do this or that in the bottom 6, its time for him to be in the Top 6".

It's not as if DB or RS are deliberately trying to keep him the Top 6. Believe me, if he was the answer and they had confidence in him...he'd not only be signed by now but we wouldn't be looking for additional wingers (Semin, Doan, Heat/Seto rumors, new AK rumors, etc). They wouldn't have been quoted talking about TK or Cooke being in the Top 6 either.

If I was a Tangradi supporter to the likes of some fans here...I would be pushing for a roster spot more than anything...certainly not a "Top 6, **** or get off the pot" mentality/demand.

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07-28-2012, 05:47 PM
  #732
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Logical but I'm not buying it. There have been countless replies to the effect of "**** or get off the pot, lets see what we have with him, he can't do this or that in the bottom 6, its time for him to be in the Top 6".

It's not as if DB or RS are deliberately trying to keep him the Top 6. Believe me, if he was the answer and they had confidence in him...he'd not only be signed by now but we wouldn't be looking for additional wingers (Semin, Doan, Heat/Seto rumors, new AK rumors, etc). They wouldn't have been quoted talking about TK or Cooke being in the Top 6 either.

If I was a Tangradi supporter to the likes of some fans here...I would be pushing for a roster spot more than anything...certainly not a "Top 6, **** or get off the pot" mentality/demand.
well then replace where I said NOBODY with NOBODY REASONABLE

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07-28-2012, 05:49 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by M0NTY26 View Post
It took Crosby and Hossa, two elite players in the NHL, nearly a month to develop chemistry together. Again, thats two elite players and even they didn't just magically start producing amazing numbers right off the jump. Now, you add a rookie in Tangradi into that picture and its no surprise he hasn't developed any chemistry with our top six when he's seen a handful of minutes there.

It's common knowledge that power forwards take more time to develop. At the end of last year, he was looking a lot better. This year, give him his shot to make the top six and pray it pans out. I'd much rather that happen than Tyler "where offense goes to die/logo sniper" Kennedy be in the top six. Even if Tangradi just becomes a big body that can dig pucks out for Sid, I'd rather that happen.

Maybe I'm bias because I think Kennedy is a horrible hockey player, outside of his 3rd line role, where he should be crashing bodies and disturbing the peace.
I don't know if Kennedy's a horrible hockey player, but I do know that he serves no real purpose on this team whatsoever. He isn't offensively good enough for the top 6. He's too small to be effective on a checking line, and he's too small to cause chaos on a 4th line. he doesn't play PP or PK. Why he's on this team to me is a bigger mystery than why Adams is. At least Adams can kill penalties. I'd like to see them both gone. Get a few legitimate 3rd and 4th liners

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Old
07-28-2012, 05:52 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
I don't know if Kennedy's a horrible hockey player, but I do know that he serves no real purpose on this team whatsoever. He isn't offensively good enough for the top 6. He's too small to be effective on a checking line, and he's too small to cause chaos on a 4th line. he doesn't play PP or PK. Why he's on this team to me is a bigger mystery than why Adams is. At least Adams can kill penalties. I'd like to see them both gone. Get a few legitimate 3rd and 4th liners
he brings decent offense for a 3rd liner. I question how he'll fit if we really plan to use Sutter's line as a legit shutdown 3rd line though. That's not TK's game. His game is to shoot the puck at the goalies chest as often as possible and hope he misses just a little bit wide. I think Jeffrey could be a better fit for that role though I don't see much chance of that happening if TK is on the team.

TK is an acceptable depth scorer. He tries really really hard and he shoots a lot. That's pretty much it.

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07-28-2012, 06:08 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
he brings decent offense for a 3rd liner. I question how he'll fit if we really plan to use Sutter's line as a legit shutdown 3rd line though. That's not TK's game. His game is to shoot the puck at the goalies chest as often as possible and hope he misses just a little bit wide. I think Jeffrey could be a better fit for that role though I don't see much chance of that happening if TK is on the team.

TK is an acceptable depth scorer. He tries really really hard and he shoots a lot. That's pretty much it.
If you look at the Cup Kennedy and compare that player to the present incarnation, I don't think he's as effective as he once was. He used to throw his body a LOT more, which our entire team has seemed to tone down since the Cooke incident, which is what made our third line so dominate. Staal would shut down the other teams offense, then they, Cooke-Staal-Kennedy, would just cycle the puck for the entire shift. Now that Cooke and Kennedy don't play as physical, they aren't nearly as effective, imo. Cooke has found a new role in being an elite PK'er, while Kennedy hasn't evolved for the better, and mind you, that was 3 years ago. He's had three years to get better, but he's devolved.

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07-28-2012, 06:24 PM
  #736
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We'd have Jagr, Semin, and AK46 up front and JBo in the back.
We would also probably be paying Radulov 12 million a year.

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Old
07-28-2012, 06:29 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by M0NTY26 View Post
If you look at the Cup Kennedy and compare that player to the present incarnation, I don't think he's as effective as he once was. He used to throw his body a LOT more, which our entire team has seemed to tone down since the Cooke incident, which is what made our third line so dominate. Staal would shut down the other teams offense, then they, Cooke-Staal-Kennedy, would just cycle the puck for the entire shift. Now that Cooke and Kennedy don't play as physical, they aren't nearly as effective, imo. Cooke has found a new role in being an elite PK'er, while Kennedy hasn't evolved for the better, and mind you, that was 3 years ago. He's had three years to get better, but he's devolved.
he's too small. he can't keep that kind of play up he already gets injured too often.

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07-28-2012, 06:32 PM
  #738
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I gotta believe if Doan is requesting to visit Montreal next week, it's fairly serious. I don't think he'll commit to an Eastern Conference team without a serious COMMITMENT. And if Montreal is the mystery EC team that offered him 4 years, $30 million, I have to think he's going to take it. Doan wants to remain a Coyote. If he can't, I think he'll take the best offer and move on. And I don't think he wants to go somewhere for 1-2 years just to win a Cup. I think he wants to sign a 'retirement' contract. For that reason, I want nothing to do with Doan.

One guy I would definitely try to bring on board is Bobby Butler. 25 years old. Scoring winger. Inconsistent. Cannot play a bottom six role. So he's basically boom or bust. This is what I want us to bring in. A bunch of these guys. We don't want or need anymore bottom sixers. I don't know what Butler's market is, though. Can we simply invite him to camp or do we have to sign him? I don't know. Maybe somebody else would be interested in him on a guaranteed deal. OR, maybe HE wants the invitation to training camp only...and if he doesn't make the team, he heads off to Europe instead of playing in the AHL again.

In any case, I think Bobby Butler is worth a shot. Eric Fehr is similar, and another guy I'd have on my radar right now.

I definitely don't want Andrei Kostitsyn.
I think Butler would be a great camp invite or Brule. It doesn't hurt and maybe catch lightning in a bottle. Any undrafted players or guys playing over in Europe we can invite? Kind of like a Brunnstrom type of invite. Thanks

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07-28-2012, 06:46 PM
  #739
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You can't just magically give Tangradi a spot he has not earned. In that lineup...why Tangradi as 3RW over Kennedy?

What has he done to earn it? How did Talbot end up as 2RW in 09? He was the 4C, played hard with emotion, and earned the opportunity. Once there, he seized the opportunity that forced DB to keep him there. Tangradi has not done so. In the shifts he's gotten in the Top 6 or with Sid/Geno...he's not do anything that warrants more of a look yet.

Eric...take the 4th line time when you can get it. Work hard and get seize the opportunity. You will not be gifted a position with the team.
Did DB get fired and I missed the memo?

Do you honestly think Tangradi will get top six minutes without playing lights out? DB refused to even give him regular 4th line minutes, now posters like you think he will suddenly hand him a top six spot... I mean wtf do some people smoke before they post on here?

The only way Tangradi plays in the top six is by playing so well that DB has no choice but to play him over a vet.

If he is in the top six this season, we should all be excited.

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07-28-2012, 06:53 PM
  #740
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Did DB get fired and I missed the memo?

Do you honestly think Tangradi will get top six minutes without playing lights out? DB refused to even give him regular 4th line minutes, now posters like you think he will suddenly hand him a top six spot... I mean wtf do some people smoke before they post on here?

The only way Tangradi plays in the top six is by playing so well that DB has no choice but to play him over a vet.

If he is in the top six this season, we should all be excited.
Looking at the depth chart & the fact he has to clear waivers will factor in this year hopefully. At least we can finally see if he can play at this level.

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07-28-2012, 06:55 PM
  #741
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Sounds like all kinds of trouble in Phoenix from new owner being 20 million short to him not even calling Doan yesterday when he was suppose to inform him how things were going. Real scary that theres a possible 30 mil 4 yr deal on the table to him. But he would be a good get for us if that wasnt the deal.

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07-28-2012, 06:59 PM
  #742
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What are your guys thoughts on the 24M/4 year deal the Penguins are rumored to have offered Doan?

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07-28-2012, 07:00 PM
  #743
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What are your guys thoughts on the 24M/4 year deal the Penguins are rumored to have offered Doan?
never seen those numbers......whered you hear that?

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07-28-2012, 07:02 PM
  #744
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never seen those numbers......whered you hear that?
from a "journalist" worse than Rossi! Bruce Garrioch (the Sens beat[off] writer).

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07-28-2012, 07:02 PM
  #745
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What are your guys thoughts on the 24M/4 year deal the Penguins are rumored to have offered Doan?
too high. on the other hand, I do like Doan. But ya, that's too high.

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07-28-2012, 07:04 PM
  #746
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If the numbers are right id probably do it........6 a yr is a bit high for a player that age but its better than the rumoured asking price of 30 mil for 4 yrs.

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07-28-2012, 07:04 PM
  #747
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too high. on the other hand, I do like Doan. But ya, that's too high.
How many years would you give to Doan?

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07-28-2012, 07:09 PM
  #748
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If Whitney's getting two, Doan's getting four.

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07-28-2012, 07:10 PM
  #749
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If Whitney's getting two, Doan's getting four.
I have no doubt in my mind that he can get 4 from someone. I don't want it to be us that give it to him, though.

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07-28-2012, 07:12 PM
  #750
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I think the obvious ideal number for Doan is 2 years, but I wouldn't really mind if they signed him for 3 or 4. I mean sometimes being a "win now" team means you have to make some concessions here and there. And an extra year or two for a player like Doan isn't really a big concession in the grand scheme of things.

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