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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part XXI: Weepy Tears & Angst (A. Kostitsyn Edition)

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07-29-2012, 05:02 PM
  #876
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
I seriously doubt that there are any players who specifically don't want to play on a line with Sidney Crosby. Is there bound to be better fits for players when you have potentially 29 different fits? Of course. But do you really think any for any player, playing with Sidney Crosby is weak part of our offer? Hint: it's not.

That's like saying you won't **** a chick because she "too hot".
he isn't saying they specifically avoid coming here. Just that we aren't everyone's top destination.

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07-29-2012, 05:34 PM
  #877
TravisUlrich
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
he isn't saying they specifically avoid coming here. Just that we aren't everyone's top destination.
Well then, "duh!" of course. There are 29 other National Hockey League teams and it's not like you're either playing with Sidney Crosby or else it's Kevin Pollock, the worst hockey player at my Friday Night pick-up league.

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07-29-2012, 05:36 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Tangradi has better hands than Dupuis and is more than a little bigger than Kunitz. Not the ideal scenario having such little competition for the spot, but IF Tangradi can work out he fits what we need at wing almost exactly.
Good point. I was thinking perhaps someone who has a little bit more of an NHL resume but I'm all for giving him a chance to see what he can do.

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07-29-2012, 05:40 PM
  #879
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if pens don't get doan i see them making a trade

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07-29-2012, 05:47 PM
  #880
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if pens don't get doan i see them making a trade
That's almost a guarantee. But it might be a while before we see that trade happen. Like mid season or later.

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07-29-2012, 05:51 PM
  #881
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Trades are definitely the way to go. As has been said for a long time, once guys get here, the odds of them staying are in our favor.

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07-29-2012, 05:58 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Tangradi has better hands than Dupuis and is more than a little bigger than Kunitz. Not the ideal scenario having such little competition for the spot, but IF Tangradi can work out he fits what we need at wing almost exactly.
Um tagradi does not have good hands imo. We can make whatever rationale we want but Craig Adams scores goals at greater rate. Maybe this year he can be 10x better I'd love to see just one prospect become a legit top 6 winger.

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07-29-2012, 06:03 PM
  #883
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Um tagradi does not have good hands imo. We can make whatever rationale we want but Craig Adams scores goals at greater rate. Maybe this year he can be 10x better I'd love to see just one prospect become a legit top 6 winger.
Tangradi does have good hands. Vastly better than Craig Adams.

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07-29-2012, 06:05 PM
  #884
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Craig Adams tied Dwight King in regular season goals last year. So I guess we should start a poll between those two and see that it'd be a real nail biter.

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07-29-2012, 06:09 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
If we're looking at guys like Bobby Ryan then there's no reason guys like Dupuis, Cooke, Tangradi, Jeffrey, TK and Kunitz aren't all on the table. And if Despres proves he can be our number 4 d-man then I really think we could see one of Martin or Niskanen traded at some point during the season too.

basically, I think our untouchable roster players are Crosby, Malkin, Neal and Letang. Right now I think Sutter is damn near untouchable because I really think Shero wants that really good 3C and because I don't see him flipping a guy right after trading Staal for him unless he gets completely blown away with a ridiculous offer.

The defense is trickier because so many guys are question marks including vets like Martin and Orpik.
Those guys you list are not really legitimate trade chips. Dupuis and Cooke are good veteran players that some teams wouldn't mind having, but with their age and contract status, neither one of them adds much value to a trade package. Trading Kunitz would be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Still would have a hole in the top 6. TK and Tangradi might have some trade value, but I really doubt they have enough to land the kind of winger we're talking about. Martin or Niskanen could potentially get something back, but that's a big maybe. You could hardly count on it.

Unless they get lucky somehow, I just don't a trade being that likely right now, and t's not going to be any easier at the deadline either. With all our cap space it just would have made so much more sense to pick up a free agent. Barring Doan, they failed. Really too bad.

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07-29-2012, 06:11 PM
  #886
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My untouchables, Crosby and Malkin.

Shero's core moving forward. Sid/Geno/Neal/Letang/Sutter. A damn fine one I'd add. And if Letang can be had for under 7 next contract, it's a core that can be here for a long long time.

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07-29-2012, 06:17 PM
  #887
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Looking at the situation now, who would give Ray Whitney 2 years/9 mil? I probably would.

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07-29-2012, 06:29 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
Looking at the situation now, who would give Ray Whitney 2 years/9 mil? I probably would.
Would have been nice. I think he just wanted to stay out west. Signed pretty early on.

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07-29-2012, 06:33 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Would have been nice. I think he just wanted to stay out west. Signed pretty early on.
A number of quality vets went off the board while the Parise wait went on. Not sure if Shero was offering anybody else forward-wise at that point.

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07-29-2012, 06:35 PM
  #890
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I really believe there could be a deal to be had with San Jose for both Clowe and Douglas Murray.

Kennedy plus and we get two solid pieces.

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07-29-2012, 06:44 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
I really believe there could be a deal to be had with San Jose for both Clowe and Douglas Murray.

Kennedy plus and we get two solid pieces.
Kennedy plus won't get Clowe alone, let alone additional players.

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07-29-2012, 07:08 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by TakeYOrpik View Post
Kennedy plus won't get Clowe alone, let alone additional players.
Kennedy for Murray is a mutually agreed on deal by both SJS and Pens fans right now on the trade board. Kennedy brings a lot to the table that SJS needs right now.

Clowe I imagine, would probably take more serious assets. Any way you slice it, these two players would make us a better team and I believe we have the assets to get both.

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07-29-2012, 07:08 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
Those guys you list are not really legitimate trade chips. Dupuis and Cooke are good veteran players that some teams wouldn't mind having, but with their age and contract status, neither one of them adds much value to a trade package. Trading Kunitz would be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Still would have a hole in the top 6. TK and Tangradi might have some trade value, but I really doubt they have enough to land the kind of winger we're talking about. Martin or Niskanen could potentially get something back, but that's a big maybe. You could hardly count on it.

Unless they get lucky somehow, I just don't a trade being that likely right now, and t's not going to be any easier at the deadline either. With all our cap space it just would have made so much more sense to pick up a free agent. Barring Doan, they failed. Really too bad.
You still seem to be locked into the idea of a 1 for 1 trade. We don't need a single one of these guys to bring back a big return. Brandon Dubinsky was the most valuable piece going to Columbus for Rick Nash. And we don't need a Rick Nash. Antoine Vermette got traded for a 2nd, 5th and Curtis McElhinney. We can afford a big range of people somewhere in between the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
I really believe there could be a deal to be had with San Jose for both Clowe and Douglas Murray.

Kennedy plus and we get two solid pieces.
That plus better be a lot more valuable than Kennedy himself

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07-29-2012, 07:09 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
Kennedy for Murray is a mutually agreed on deal by both SJS and Pens fans right now on the trade board. Kennedy brings a lot to the table that SJS needs right now.

Clowe I imagine, would probably take more serious assets. Any way you slice it, these two players would make us a better team and I believe we have the assets to get both.
I agree with the premise. But ya, it'll need to be a really big plus. Clowe is considerably more valuable than Kennedy or Murray.

I'm still not sold on Murray though. If he can't play in the top 4 I really don't see him being a big help. I'd love Clowe though.

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07-29-2012, 07:10 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
You still seem to be locked into the idea of a 1 for 1 trade. We don't need a single one of these guys to bring back a big return. Brandon Dubinsky was the most valuable piece going to Columbus for Rick Nash. And we don't need a Rick Nash. Antoine Vermette got traded for a 2nd, 5th and Curtis McElhinney. We can afford a big range of people somewhere in between the two.



That plus better be a lot more valuable than Kennedy himself
I was referring to TK for Murray and Clowe for a plus and yes, I meant a significant one.

TK for Murray is one of the few agreed upon trades by two fan bases.

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07-29-2012, 07:16 PM
  #896
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If we got both Doan and Andrei Kostitsyn at a reasonable price I would say its at least a better starting 6 then last year.
Kunitz Crosby Doan
AK Malkin Neal
Cooke Sutter Dupis
Glass Vitale/ Jeffery and Kennedy
Bench
Adams
Tangradi

If we could get Doan and AK we can fill in some holes with wingers and see how we fair till the deadline. If we need a better top 6 at the deadline at least we would have Doan and AK as trade bait if needed.


Last edited by redsono93: 07-29-2012 at 07:27 PM.
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Old
07-29-2012, 07:18 PM
  #897
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
You still seem to be locked into the idea of a 1 for 1 trade. We don't need a single one of these guys to bring back a big return. Brandon Dubinsky was the most valuable piece going to Columbus for Rick Nash. And we don't need a Rick Nash. Antoine Vermette got traded for a 2nd, 5th and Curtis McElhinney. We can afford a big range of people somewhere in between the two.
I know, but what I'm saying is, even as a package they aren't going to bring back much of anything. You throw a bunch of pieces together that have minimal value, it still adds up to not much value. People scoff at Dubsinky/Anisimov, but they were more valuable than any piece the Pens have unless you want to move Sutter.

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07-29-2012, 07:23 PM
  #898
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I don't get this obsession with throwing Kennedy away on more bottom pairing D. Not the biggest Kennedy fan, but unless we are getting a bonafide top4 guy who is a sure upgrade on at least Martin, we need Kennedy more than adding to the collection of borderline #4-6s.

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07-29-2012, 07:28 PM
  #899
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Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
I know, but what I'm saying is, even as a package they aren't going to bring back much of anything. You throw a bunch of pieces together that have minimal value, it still adds up to not much value. People scoff at Dubsinky/Anisimov, but they were more valuable than any piece the Pens have unless you want to move Sutter.
Martin is likely more valuable than either. Kunitz is in the ballpark. And yes, moving Kunitz would make sense if the wing he brings back is better than he is. I wouldn't move him in a lateral trade but for a deal to bring back a guy like Ryan I would absolutely trade Kunitz. I mean, I would try not to but if the difference between getting Ryan and not getting Ryan was replacing TK with Kunitz in our offer I would almost certainly do it.

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07-29-2012, 07:29 PM
  #900
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
I don't get this obsession with throwing Kennedy away on more bottom pairing D. Not the biggest Kennedy fan, but unless we are getting a bonafide top4 guy who is a sure upgrade on at least Martin, we need Kennedy more than adding to the collection of borderline #4-6s.
Agreed. bottom pairing defenseman is not a need. If we bring in a D-man its a physical top 4 guy. Even then, if we do trade for a top 4 guy I would hope we turn right around and trade Martin.

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