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It's over, now let's fix it. Keyboard GMs unite.

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Old
05-13-2013, 11:42 PM
  #1
HOLDITHERE
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It's over, now let's fix it. Keyboard GMs unite.

First, let me say I really think this deserves a spot on this board, and ask you politely to let it flow on it's own for a while.

After a roller coaster season, we got to see the exact same Capitals playoff team from the last 5 years. Perhaps worse considering this miserable game 7 performance. I'm not trying to vent here, as I'm very proud of the turnaround, but it's comical how similar this all is.

My question to all you, what next?

Does McPhee need to go? Everytime he does something insanely retarded, he somehow makes up for it in doing something sneakily fantastic. I'm honestly torn on the issue. I know alot of you hate him, but he has done some great things here and there.

Ribiero? I'm a huge fan of the guy, seeing as Dallas is equally important to me. I'd love to see him stick around. His first half of the season was damn near Hart worthy, and then completely fell off the map. Torn, again.

Do we do the unthinkable and trade parts of the core away? Green? Alzner?

Can we stop all this buying hot grinders nonsense?

Can we please get rid of Ward and teach Chimera fundamentals of hockey?

Oates is clearly the way to continue as far as coaching goes. I have no issues there. And I'm sure regardless of what happens, this team will once again have a strong regular season. But how long does this need to continue? What is it that's stopping us? I know it doesn't help that year after year we run into the hottest goalie on the planet, but come on.

Obviously we can't just blow the team up, but what kind of shake-up can we expect, if any?

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Old
05-14-2013, 12:04 AM
  #2
caps4cup
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What I want to see next year...

Erat-Backstrom-Ovechkin
_______-Ribeiro-Brouwer
Laich-Perreault-Fehr
Chimera-Beagle-Wilson

Alzner-Green
Orlov-Carlson
Erskine-Oleksy

Holtby


Don't know what to do with mojo. Would be nice to trade him for a top 4 d or more of a powerforward top 6 winger. Any ideas? Ward is good but expensive...

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Old
05-14-2013, 12:12 AM
  #3
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What I want next year:

Erat-Backstrom-Ovechkin
Real winger-Real center-Brouwer
Laich-Perreault-Fehr
Hendricks-Latta-Wilson

Alzner-Green
Orlov-Carlson
Erskine-Kundratek/Oleksy

Holtby

Trade Ward. I like him but he's too expensive. Amnesty Schultz. Let Ribeiro walk. Ideally you'd get rid of Erat, but that can't and won't happen. I like Mojo, but he's possible trade bait. Same with Neuvy. Erskine should NOT be a top-4 defenseman. Beagle brings almost nothing to the table besides a little PK time.

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05-14-2013, 12:37 AM
  #4
DanTHEMan71
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Get secondary scoring, plain and simple. No more grinders. Ribeiro needs someone to set up when OV and the 1st line is struggling. That's why we lost this series. Relied on the PP because OV relies on it.

We didn't generate enough quality chances 5 on 5 because the 1st line was locked down and Ribeiro had nobody that could consistently finish.

I don't care if I've repeated myself on other threads but we needed Semin or someone that could score like him. Otherwise we're a mediocre team.

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05-14-2013, 12:42 AM
  #5
DanTHEMan71
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Erat on the 1st line will look the same as MoJo up there, maybe worse. I swear MoJo is a tougher and overall a better player than Erat. Both are too soft to face 1st D pairings anyways.

However MoJo has a better shot (although both aren't expected to score), is faster, and is surprisingly better along the boards than Erat.

Stupid McPhee is pot committed with the Erat deal. If he can accept the loss of Forsberg and risk looking like an idiot, he should trade Erat this summer. We really don't need him, IMO.

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05-14-2013, 12:45 AM
  #6
FloridaCap
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Originally Posted by DanTHEMan71 View Post
Erat on the 1st line will look the same as MoJo up there, maybe worse. I swear MoJo is a tougher and overall a better player than Erat. Both are too soft to face 1st D pairings anyways.

However MoJo has a better shot (although both aren't expected to score), is faster, and is surprisingly better along the boards than Erat.

Stupid McPhee is pot committed with the Erat deal. If he can accept the loss of Forsberg and risk looking like an idiot, he should trade Erat this summer. We really don't need him, IMO.

I think Mojo is shiftier and more creative than Erat, but Erat is better along the boards and is a better finisher.

With that said, I like Mojo and can't stand Erat, so I'd much rather Erat just be traded for peanuts, but he has a NMC.

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Old
05-14-2013, 01:03 AM
  #7
DanTHEMan71
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Originally Posted by FloridaCap View Post
I think Mojo is shiftier and more creative than Erat, but Erat is better along the boards and is a better finisher.

With that said, I like Mojo and can't stand Erat, so I'd much rather Erat just be traded for peanuts, but he has a NMC.
I don't know. From what I saw Erat fell a lot more that MoJo. He never seemed to come away with the puck along the boards and couldn't absorb checks as well as MoJo.

Either way you can't compare the two as they're very similar both in size and playstyle. Not much separates them, but regardless, neither are built for the 1st line going up against 1st D pairings. I would be less inclined to think that if one of them could finish consistently.

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Old
05-14-2013, 01:26 AM
  #8
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I don't know where to start. The offense on paper looked fine and they produced in the regular season.

The defense needs an upgrade. Erskine was a huge contributing factor in the loss, he was awful. He had to be injured.

This is a mental thing and i don't know how you fix it. If the first line produces at half the clip they were going at in the rs, we move on.

How do you fix mental fragility?

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Old
05-14-2013, 01:34 AM
  #9
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Erat-Backstrom-Ovie
Laich-Center-Brouwer
Fehr-MP85-Ward/Chimera
Latta-Beagle-Wilson

Green-Alzner
Carlson-Orlov
Oleksy-Schmidt/Kundratek

pressbox or hopefully traded: Erskine

Pressbox: Volpatti, Hillen

Holtby/Neuvy

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Old
05-14-2013, 01:42 AM
  #10
DanTHEMan71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechtrick8 View Post
Erat-Backstrom-Ovie
Laich-Center-Brouwer
Fehr-MP85-Ward/Chimera
Latta-Beagle-Wilson

Green-Alzner
Carlson-Orlov
Oleksy-Schmidt/Kundratek

pressbox or hopefully traded: Erskine

Pressbox: Volpatti, Hillen

Holtby/Neuvy
Ribeiro is the only viable option there unless we trade. No FA centers this summer come close to Ribs. We either trade 1 or 2 of our wingers for a top 6 scoring wing or we stay mediocre and wait until 2014-15 for Kuznetsov to hopefully resuscitate our top 6.

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05-14-2013, 02:02 AM
  #11
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What happens next? Short term - probably nothing. We don't have the cap room or the assets to make any real changes this offseason barring a total rebuild. Schultz will probably be gone, but Ward and Chimera played well enough this series that I don't think GMGM (because let's face it - he's not going anywhere till he misses the playoffs) is going to dump them so he can afford Ribeiro. So Ribs is replaced by Laich or Perrault on the 2nd line. Johansson and Alzner are resigned, maybe Hendricks too, and we end up with roughly this roster, plus any call ups and depth guys. One nice thing about not keeping Ribs though is that now we've got room for a deal like Neuvirth for Klesla.

Marcus Johansson ($2.000m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m)
Martin Erat ($4.500m) / Mathieu Perreault ($1.050m) / Troy Brouwer ($3.667m)
Jason Chimera ($1.750m) / Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Joel Ward ($3.000m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.575m) / Jay Beagle ($0.900m) / Eric Fehr ($1.500m)

Karl Alzner ($3.000m) / Mike Green ($6.083m)
John Erskine ($1.963m) / John Carlson ($3.967m)
Jack Hillen ($0.700m) / Dmitry Orlov ($0.900m)
Steven Oleksy ($0.542m) /

Braden Holtby ($1.850m)
Michal Neuvirth ($2.500m)

CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $3,275,705

Long term, I think unless Kuznetsov is the savior we hope he is, we're doomed to be the new Calgary Flames. The talent we've got is enough to keep us semi-competitive, right in that gap where you're not good enough to make noise in the playoffs but not bad enough to tank and rebuild through the draft. Basically what we've been doing the past two years, just without the cupcake division to make us look better than we are. Our cap situation now and in the near future (and probably for as long as GMGM is around to overpay grinders), along with the state of our farm system, are going to keep us from making any significant changes through trades to improve our position, and Ted's financial situation will keep us from moving on and going through a rebuild. No way up, no way down. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but right now I really think there's a good chance that we're just gonna keep doing what we're doing until the end of Ovie's contract.


Last edited by Zoidberg Jesus: 05-14-2013 at 02:08 AM.
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Old
05-14-2013, 02:26 AM
  #12
DanTHEMan71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
What happens next? Short term - probably nothing. We don't have the cap room or the assets to make any real changes this offseason barring a total rebuild. Schultz will probably be gone, but Ward and Chimera played well enough this series that I don't think GMGM (because let's face it - he's not going anywhere till he misses the playoffs) is going to dump them so he can afford Ribeiro. So Ribs is replaced by Laich or Perrault on the 2nd line. Johansson and Alzner are resigned, maybe Hendricks too, and we end up with roughly this roster, plus any call ups and depth guys. One nice thing about not keeping Ribs though is that now we've got room for a deal like Neuvirth for Klesla.

Marcus Johansson ($2.000m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m)
Martin Erat ($4.500m) / Mathieu Perreault ($1.050m) / Troy Brouwer ($3.667m)
Jason Chimera ($1.750m) / Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Joel Ward ($3.000m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.575m) / Jay Beagle ($0.900m) / Eric Fehr ($1.500m)

Karl Alzner ($3.000m) / Mike Green ($6.083m)
John Erskine ($1.963m) / John Carlson ($3.967m)
Jack Hillen ($0.700m) / Dmitry Orlov ($0.900m)
Steven Oleksy ($0.542m) /

Braden Holtby ($1.850m)
Michal Neuvirth ($2.500m)

CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $3,275,705

Long term, I think unless Kuznetsov is the savior we hope he is, we're doomed to be the new Calgary Flames. The talent we've got is enough to keep us semi-competitive, right in that gap where you're not good enough to make noise in the playoffs but not bad enough to tank and rebuild through the draft. Basically what we've been doing the past two years, just without the cupcake division to make us look better than we are. Our cap situation now and in the near future (and probably for as long as GMGM is around to overpay grinders), along with the state of our farm system, are going to keep us from making any significant changes through trades to improve our position, and Ted's financial situation will keep us from moving on and going through a rebuild. No way up, no way down. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but right now I really think there's a good chance that we're just gonna keep doing what we're doing until the end of Ovie's contract.
2021 is still a long ways away. Who knows if we'll even have Ovie when that contract is done.

IMO, we're in danger to miss the playoffs if we don't keep Ribs. He was our best player in the 1st half of the season until Ovechkin woke up. Getting Ribs to replace Semin, and then getting rid of Ribs will kill our offence even more.

With the tougher division next year, if our offence regresses further, I wouldn't be surprised if we miss the playoffs. PIT is a lock. PHI should bounce back. The rest of the teams in the division (except for CBJ) have a legitimate chance at making it. Add the fact that we'll be playing Detroit more than Winnipeg next year. If we lose Ribs, I don't think we'll survive the late season playoff push.

As for us becoming the new Flames, fortunately we aren't there yet, core is still young. However, trading Forsberg definitely sped up that process.

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Old
05-14-2013, 02:36 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Long term, I think unless Kuznetsov is the savior we hope he is, we're doomed to be the new Calgary Flames. The talent we've got is enough to keep us semi-competitive, right in that gap where you're not good enough to make noise in the playoffs but not bad enough to tank and rebuild through the draft. Basically what we've been doing the past two years, just without the cupcake division to make us look better than we are. Our cap situation now and in the near future (and probably for as long as GMGM is around to overpay grinders), along with the state of our farm system, are going to keep us from making any significant changes through trades to improve our position, and Ted's financial situation will keep us from moving on and going through a rebuild. No way up, no way down. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but right now I really think there's a good chance that we're just gonna keep doing what we're doing until the end of Ovie's contract.
Doomed is a strong word. They still put together banner worthy seasons in attendance no matter how bad their W-L records get. Ownership will settle for that as long as people are dumb enough to keep buying the hope and excuses they are floating, because it's much easier than seriously trying to compete. Just look at the Blackhawks and Flyers, they could have just kept counting the cash from the sellouts and stop trying, but they didn't and the last two years when they failed to win they have become the butt of jokes amongst professional racing drivers.

This core has had more than enough chances to prove that they are up for the challenge and they haven't done it. Moving complementary pieces around is too little, too late. The whole thing needs to be blown starting from those that refuse to hold them accountable.

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Old
05-14-2013, 06:00 AM
  #14
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Honestly? And I say this without anger or frustration, because that all came out of my system around the 5 minute mark of the 3rd period last night. There's no fixing this team. It begins with Alex Ovechkin, and the team will categorically not sniff a Stanley Cup with him earning over $9m and being the entire focal point of the team. I enjoyed his regular season charge to the finish as much as anyone, but he's a one-dimensional player prone to being completely shut down if his shot isn't on, and the worst thing is that despite that, the team still goes through him. Every line rush, every cycle, it all begins and ends with him. Usually the latter in tight-checking playoff games.

Then I take a step back and look to the top. We know the owner doesn't care about winning, which gives job security to the GM who fills seats. We know the GM isn't capable of putting the pieces in place to win a Cup. He doesn't have the balls to make the bold move or the smarts to make the right move. In addition, he makes so many dumbass moves that it's hard to comprehend how they have the assets they do.

Backstrom doesn't step up in the playoffs any more. Johansson remains a question mark, but the reality is he just doesn't add much to the team. Ribeiro? He's either gone, which leaves the team void of talent at the C position, or he'll be overpaid to stay - and I'm not sure he's part of the solution with the way he plays. The depth is OK, but does it stand out? No, not at all. The Rangers' bottom 6 was better. Defense? Ugh. They haven't had the chance to be exposed by the likes of Pittsburgh in recent years, just grinders like the Rangers and Bruins, but they aren't good. Not at all. You look individually and some guys are OK, but it never adds up to Cup-winning stuff. Oh wait, they played Tampa, didn't they? Yeah, that went well.

Goaltending? Bleh. I love Holtby, but whatever. He choked with most of the rest of the team. And the backup gets paid $2.5m - hahaha.

Honestly? I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel whatsoever. Not a single thing to look forward to. If I was GM? Yeah, honestly, I would go full NHL 13 on this roster. I wouldn't try to support these 'stars', I'd replace them.

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05-14-2013, 06:10 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by caps4cup View Post
What I want to see next year...

Erat-Backstrom-Ovechkin
_______-Ribeiro-Brouwer
Laich-Perreault-Fehr
Chimera-Beagle-Wilson

Alzner-Green
Orlov-Carlson
Erskine-Oleksy

Holtby


Don't know what to do with mojo. Would be nice to trade him for a top 4 d or more of a powerforward top 6 winger. Any ideas? Ward is good but expensive...
I have to ask... in the nicest, most genuine way I can: are you clinically insane?

You *WANT* to see the exact same team with one 2nd line change? You want that exact same, rotten defense to return?!

Dude, that's unreal. We just got cockpunched by the most pathetic, hapless team in the playoffs East of Minnesota, and you want to trot out the same bunch of losers?

I actually shudder to think what would've happened this year and last if the Caps had faced decent teams. And in pure hindsight, it's a shame we didn't see it. Because close playoff losses keep GMs in their jobs. More embarrassments like Tampa might, MIGHT give Ted even a slight moment to think about the direction of his annually choking franchise.

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Old
05-14-2013, 06:23 AM
  #16
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Somewhere Hunter is laughing his ass off

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Old
05-14-2013, 06:46 AM
  #17
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ward: tied for the team scoring lead from the 3rd line and coming off an injury that kept him out for weeks before game 1. dump him? seriously?
chimera: see above. ok he had the 2nd highest point total.

reality: the capitals are the capitals. they are doomed. as a franchise they have had 7 series with a 2-0 and have lost 5 of them. as a franchise they are doomed.

this particular core is doomed. look at the support staff all you want to, but ovechkin, backstrom, green and laich have been thru 6 playoff flameouts. ok, 5. they lost a nip and tuck, one win-one loss series to the rangers last season where the rangers had home ice advantage. the 5 other playoff attempts by the ovechkin era caps have all had the lead in the series they lost except tb. most had a two game lead in the series. they had home ice in all of them.

i believe that a team lead by those 3 or 4 players will never have the confidence to win in the playoffs. they are mentally destroyed. since there is no chance that the caps remove the top of their lineup and start over, they are doomed to repeat the current scenario over and over again.

in time this will erode fan participation. the david poile caps suffered that. the atlanta braves suffered from the same.

i dont see a realistic solution. i'd start with trading backstrom to see if that helps, but in the end ovechkin needs to go.

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05-14-2013, 06:51 AM
  #18
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ward: tied for the team scoring lead from the 3rd line and coming off an injury that kept him out for weeks before game 1. dump him? seriously?
chimera: see above. ok he had the 2nd highest point total.

reality: the capitals are the capitals. they are doomed. as a franchise they have had 7 series with a 2-0 and have lost 5 of them. as a franchise they are doomed.

this particular core is doomed. look at the support staff all you want to, but ovechkin, backstrom, green and laich have been thru 6 playoff flameouts. ok, 5. they lost a nip and tuck, one win-one loss series to the rangers last season where the rangers had home ice advantage. the 5 other playoff attempts by the ovechkin era caps have all had the lead in the series they lost except tb. most had a two game lead in the series. they had home ice in all of them.

i believe that a team lead by those 3 or 4 players will never have the confidence to win in the playoffs. they are mentally destroyed. since there is no chance that the caps remove the top of their lineup and start over, they are doomed to repeat the current scenario over and over again.

in time this will erode fan participation. the david poile caps suffered that. the atlanta braves suffered from the same.

i dont see a realistic solution. i'd start with trading backstrom to see if that helps, but in the end ovechkin needs to go.
Maybe I've read you wrong over the months because you generally come off as a bit of an apologist, but this post is absolutely spot-on, 100% accurate. Every damn word, from Ward to the leaders to the trading.

Backstrom's my favorite player in the world, a damn fine center with elite playmaking and vision and passing, but yeah, I think he's probably the guy who has to go. I mean, I'd trade Ovechkin, but in reality, it's 19. Find the most center-hungry team in the league and pillage them for legitimate pieces. I'd easily expect more than the Rangers got for Gaborik, but look at Brassard and he's the type of guy the Caps should be targeting. Not because he or guys like him are better than Backstrom, or even close, but this core just isn't working. It's the same thing year after year after year.

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05-14-2013, 08:07 AM
  #19
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How do you fix mental fragility?
By not nurturing and coddling young players? Dale certainly made strides.

When MJ does well on 1, dont be afraid to move him to another line and let him try and anchor one by himself, see if he can complement other players and make more complete lines across the lineup. A team first mentality.

If Fehr is hitting but not scoring, don't insist on ONLY moving up him in the lineup. 4th liners hit. If the skate fits, wear it.

If Holtby can't resist puck handling and the problems it can cause, do not be afraid to try our highest paid goalie after 2 straight losses.

Holty did OK in the series, but our run of young goalies are proving they cannot do the job alone. Do not worry about hurting their confidence yanking them, especially after the GM inks the backup to a higher contract on the eve of the playoffs.

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05-14-2013, 08:08 AM
  #20
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Click Here, I agree. Txpd, for the first time ever I think we are on the same page. Last night I realized I wasn't even that mad, I just felt hopeless about this team. This is probably rock bottom for me as a Caps fan. I've come to the realization that this team is led by mental midgets and that they'll never get past the second round with McPhee in charge. Even Jason Arnott couldn't save this team two seasons ago. This team needs at least two or three of him on the roster. And McPhee isn't going to make that happen. This team is stuck in limbo for the foreseeable future in my opinion, especially with the new division. And if Ribs walks, it'll just be icing on the cake. I hate McPhee. But yes, our stars are broken and sadly it starts with Ovechkin. I fully believe one of the big three needs to be shipped out.

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05-14-2013, 08:20 AM
  #21
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reality: the capitals are the capitals. as a franchise they are doomed.

And that is really all that needs to be said.

At least we already know how 2014 will end.

And 2015. And so on.

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05-14-2013, 08:27 AM
  #22
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Letting Semin walk for nothing and then effectively letting Eakin walk for nothing and then trading Forsberg has definitely sent this team towards perpetual 7-10 seeds for the foreseeable future. Top end talent gone as well as future cheap talent gone. Pretty much worst case scenario.

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05-14-2013, 08:42 AM
  #23
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I didn't watch a single minute of that game last night...and never will.

As for fixing it?

Its time to let Mafki go and shake **** up. I dont think the man needs to be fired...but he needs to step down or something.

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05-14-2013, 08:51 AM
  #24
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ward: tied for the team scoring lead from the 3rd line and coming off an injury that kept him out for weeks before game 1. dump him? seriously?
chimera: see above. ok he had the 2nd highest point total.

reality: the capitals are the capitals. they are doomed. as a franchise they have had 7 series with a 2-0 and have lost 5 of them. as a franchise they are doomed.

this particular core is doomed. look at the support staff all you want to, but ovechkin, backstrom, green and laich have been thru 6 playoff flameouts. ok, 5. they lost a nip and tuck, one win-one loss series to the rangers last season where the rangers had home ice advantage. the 5 other playoff attempts by the ovechkin era caps have all had the lead in the series they lost except tb. most had a two game lead in the series. they had home ice in all of them.

i believe that a team lead by those 3 or 4 players will never have the confidence to win in the playoffs. they are mentally destroyed. since there is no chance that the caps remove the top of their lineup and start over, they are doomed to repeat the current scenario over and over again.

in time this will erode fan participation. the david poile caps suffered that. the atlanta braves suffered from the same.

i dont see a realistic solution. i'd start with trading backstrom to see if that helps, but in the end ovechkin needs to go.
Finally, TXPD's master plan is revealed, trade Backstrom, trade Ovechkin, keep Ward and Chimera. 1980's Capitals reborn!

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05-14-2013, 08:56 AM
  #25
BobRouse
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Originally Posted by QuadrupleDeke View Post
Letting Semin walk for nothing and then effectively letting Eakin walk for nothing and then trading Forsberg has definitely sent this team towards perpetual 7-10 seeds for the foreseeable future. Top end talent gone as well as future cheap talent gone. Pretty much worst case scenario.
GMGM took a gamble and failed. At least he tried this time around instead of sitting on his nuts.

But its not all as bad as you say. We do still have Kuznetsov and I did like Wilson's potential. Orlov still brewing too.

We will be a good team again next year and will make the playoffs. Not sure we will be a true contender.

In retrospect Brooks Laich should have had that surgery immediately starting the season. He tried to brave through it and it cost the franchise. Not only did he not come back for the playoffs but his absences did lead to the trade for Erat to fill the void. Tough break.

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