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Nationals, Wizards, DC United, O's, Ravens....DC area sports III

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Old
01-16-2013, 07:18 AM
  #751
brs03
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Remember, it's not functionally 14 mil a year. Doesn't mean it's not too much, obviously, but it's Lerner's money to waste how he chooses I guess.

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01-16-2013, 08:40 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
14 mil a year for a reliever? Obviously Rizzo hasn't read Lewis's Moneyball and Billy Beane's perspective on relievers.

As a Mets fan and knowing the Mets history with Latin closers, KROD, Armando Benitez and currently Frank Francisco, I'd be a tad hesitant with your jubilation at this moment Nats fans.
1) While I absolutely agree with the overvaluing of the save statistic, I wouldn't say that this is a scenario where the moneyball philosophy really applies. This isn't what I would call "paying for saves." This is about adding a top level relief pitcher and strengthening a relative "weakness" on a roster that otherwise has none.

2) Moneyball is really about assembling a competitive roster with a small market budget, which obviously doesn't currently apply to the Nationals. There are good principles to take away, but Billy Beane's post season success, or lack thereof, shows that it's not a model you should be following to a T.

3)And the Latin Closer thing means nothing at all..the Mets thing though, that's real.

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01-16-2013, 09:49 AM
  #753
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Just out of curiosity, what moves has Theo made in Chicago that gives you the impression that the Cubs are being well run?
The Anthony Rizzo theft from San Diego, the Almora and Baez selections in consecutive drafts as well as the solid draft classes in those years, the Soler acquisition, the very reasonable Castro extension, the decision to make Samardjia (sp) a starter, the reshuffling of the front office that brought very well thought of executives and personnel people to Chicago, the switch in emphasis away from big-ticket free agent acquisitions towards organizational development, young asset procurement and player development, the decision to allow a type of natural progression for the club instead of a quick fix methodology that'll allow them to draft another high grade prospect at the top the this year's first round and have a larger bonus pool to continue restocking their farm system etc.

It won't bear fruit for a few more seasons and they HAVE to improve their pitching substantially in the forthcoming years, but I think the Cubs are headed down the right path. And of course once their foundation is set, they have the financial resources to augment the team in whatever way they see fit.

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01-16-2013, 09:57 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Rizzo just impresses. That roster led by Davey Johnson has crazy potential. They still have assets coming back for Morse, too. Great stuff.
Wouldn't be surprised if they hold on to Morse through a good portion of TC as injuries can happen (OF or 1B) before being traded.

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01-16-2013, 10:04 AM
  #755
Stewie G
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Originally Posted by TheFountainhead View Post
The Anthony Rizzo theft from San Diego, the Almora and Baez selections in consecutive drafts as well as the solid draft classes in those years, the Soler acquisition, the very reasonable Castro extension, the decision to make Samardjia (sp) a starter, the reshuffling of the front office that brought very well thought of executives and personnel people to Chicago, the switch in emphasis away from big-ticket free agent acquisitions towards organizational development, young asset procurement and player development, the decision to allow a type of natural progression for the club instead of a quick fix methodology that'll allow them to draft another high grade prospect at the top the this year's first round and have a larger bonus pool to continue restocking their farm system etc.

It won't bear fruit for a few more seasons and they HAVE to improve their pitching substantially in the forthcoming years, but I think the Cubs are headed down the right path. And of course once their foundation is set, they have the financial resources to augment the team in whatever way they see fit.
I don't follow the Cubs that closely anymore so I appreciate your insights. Seems to me that the organizational path forward was fairly plain to see, but kudos to Theo for sticking to it. It appears that ownership has bought into that plan as well which is vital.

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01-16-2013, 10:25 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
I don't follow the Cubs that closely anymore so I appreciate your insights. Seems to me that the organizational path forward was fairly plain to see, but kudos to Theo for sticking to it. It appears that ownership has bought into that plan as well which is vital.
No problem. Imo, Theo is a terrific executive, he just lost his way a little at the end of his tenure in Boston. Drafting/acquiring young, talented prospects has never been an issue for him though, so it won't be long before the Cubs are talked about as a young, talent rich organization again.

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01-16-2013, 10:27 AM
  #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColincampbellOscopy View Post
1) While I absolutely agree with the overvaluing of the save statistic, I wouldn't say that this is a scenario where the moneyball philosophy really applies. This isn't what I would call "paying for saves." This is about adding a top level relief pitcher and strengthening a relative "weakness" on a roster that otherwise has none.

2) Moneyball is really about assembling a competitive roster with a small market budget, which obviously doesn't currently apply to the Nationals. There are good principles to take away, but Billy Beane's post season success, or lack thereof, shows that it's not a model you should be following to a T.

3)And the Latin Closer thing means nothing at all..the Mets thing though, that's real.
Actually, the "book" and not the movie Moneyball is about evaluating or looking at players in an entirely different way than had previously been done via the traditional scouting route. This is where even before Billy Beane's days his predecessor Sandy Alderson was an early believer in Bill James and statistics possibly providing greater insight into a player than rather a scout watching a player and having a "gut" feeling about the player.

As far as my comments on relievers, in the book I recall two relievers discussed in particular, one was Royce Ring and the other Chad Bradford. Ring was discussed when they were going through the draft and the White Sox drafted him in the first round and Beane subsequently noted that he would never waste a first round/high draft pick on a relief pitcher as he only believed that relief pitchers were worth short term contracts and pretty much on the cheap. I believe a whole chapter was dedicated to Chad Bradford in the book and how no one else was interested in this submarine pitcher but the A's were based on his stats and thus they obtained him on the cheap as well and he pitched quite well for them.

Regarding my comments about the Latin closers, the pitchers that I referenced all are visibly emotional pitchers, who when things didn't go well they displayed their displeasure/emotions. Tyler Clippard does this as well. I would prefer a more stoic/cool calm and collective closer, and not a Rob Dibble on the mound. They may have the talent, but for a closer you need the mental/emotional side as well, i.e. Mariano Rivera.

BTW there's a lot of connections between the Moneyball book and the New York Mets. The two pitchers I noted, Ring and Bradford both later came through the Mets organization (Ring was part of the Roberto Alomar trade with the White Sox), the A's pitching coach Rick Petersen later became the Mets pitching coach, the A's Manager Art Howe later became the Met's manager, the A's GM Sandy Alderson who preceded Billy Beane and brought Beane into the front offices of the A's is now the Mets GM and the Stat guy (forget his name) who was played by Jonah Hill in the movie is now the Director of Player Personnel for the Mets.

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01-16-2013, 10:36 AM
  #758
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That avatar is hilarious.

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01-16-2013, 05:52 PM
  #759
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N000000b here. Greetings all.

For you fellow O's fans...extensions with Buck and Duquette through 2018 were announced this evening.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/o...,2885818.story

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01-16-2013, 05:59 PM
  #760
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That avatar is hilarious.
ref9

Righteous advitar.

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01-16-2013, 06:27 PM
  #761
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Morse to the M's, getting back A.J. Cole + PBTNL (+ another "good" prospect?) from the A's in a 3-way deal.

I'll take it. Would have like to see Morse + reliever (+?) in an even bigger "holy crap" deal, just for the fun of it, but Cole is a good guy to get back. Never liked having to include him in the trade for Gio.

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01-16-2013, 07:11 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Morse to the M's, getting back A.J. Cole + PBTNL (+ another "good" prospect?) from the A's in a 3-way deal.

I'll take it. Would have like to see Morse + reliever (+?) in an even bigger "holy crap" deal, just for the fun of it, but Cole is a good guy to get back. Never liked having to include him in the trade for Gio.
I love the deal on a number of levels. First off, it essentially pays down the debt incurred by the Soriano signing. Cole, although he struggled in High A last season, still has tremendous arm strength with the potential to have a plus secondary pitch. His arm is likely as good or better than anything that would've been available at the end of the first round, and he still has middle of the rotation upside if things break well for him (and they still can. He's still very young and still has time to put everything together.) It also signals that we'll be retaining both Clippard and Storen which gives us the killer bullpen we were discussing yesterday, and finally, it sends Morse to a team that I actually don't dislike strongly. Would've been hard to watch Morse in pinstripes or in Beantown.

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01-17-2013, 06:25 AM
  #763
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With Sean Burnett, Mike Gonzalez and Gorzelany all gone, the Nats have no left handers in their BP right now.

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01-17-2013, 06:36 AM
  #764
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With Sean Burnett, Mike Gonzalez and Gorzelany all gone, the Nats have no left handers in their BP right now.
They have Duke (takes Gorzo's role most likely), and Bill Bray will probably get a decent shot in spring training to prove he's recovered from his back issues and can be their LOOGY.

Between that and the fact that Clippard and Mattheus (I think) [EDIT: It's Stammen, not Mattheus, that's good against both lefties and righties; my mistake] are both very good against lefties it doesn't surprise me all that much. Not that I wouldn't have wanted Burnett and/or Gonzalez back for what they got, because I certainly would have.

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01-18-2013, 01:18 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Morse to the M's, getting back A.J. Cole + PBTNL (+ another "good" prospect?) from the A's in a 3-way deal.

I'll take it. Would have like to see Morse + reliever (+?) in an even bigger "holy crap" deal, just for the fun of it, but Cole is a good guy to get back. Never liked having to include him in the trade for Gio.
Sickels' evaluation of the prospects involved:

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/...rade-prospects

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01-19-2013, 09:09 AM
  #766
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Sorry to post this, but reports are that Earl Weaver has passed away at the age of 82. RIP

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01-19-2013, 09:40 AM
  #767
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Earl was awesome maybe the best ever battling the dumb crews calling the games



i heard the zards won a few games so I bet the ML and points last night. They beat Denver. But I was reminded why I hate NBA, the endless free throws fouls and timeouts just otherwise kill what should be the best part of the game.

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01-19-2013, 11:18 AM
  #768
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Sad to hear, R.I.P Earl.

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01-19-2013, 08:06 PM
  #769
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Stan Musial is gone on the same day as Earl. RIP

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01-19-2013, 09:52 PM
  #770
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Stan the man too, crazy. R.I.P.

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01-20-2013, 06:55 AM
  #771
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I loved Earl Weaver. So glad he got a bit of a run this past season. He got his Legends Day (where he kicked dirt on the plate...) and saw his O's relevant again. In an era of Sabremetrics and the like, he still does not get enough credit for what he did during his time.

Stan the Man, sad as well. So humble, never gets the credit he deserved.

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01-20-2013, 05:42 PM
  #772
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Please end this Patriots so I don't have to see Ray Lewis fake cries to the heavens again....

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01-20-2013, 07:40 PM
  #773
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Ever wondered what Earl Weaver was saying out there?

"You are just here to **** with me!"

Not safe for work - language - but highly recommended viewing for long time Os fans


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01-20-2013, 09:07 PM
  #774
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The Civil War Bowl?

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01-20-2013, 09:17 PM
  #775
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Super Bro Bowl

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