HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Carolina Hurricanes
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

"The Alexander Semin experiment"

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-05-2012, 01:24 AM
  #176
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
 
Vagrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,178
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
How vagrant views semin as a mercenary is how I always viewed Whitney and Stillman. I get it, though I think with semin being younger, and us being only his second team that maybe if he works out and stays with us it won't feel that way.
I agree with you on a few fronts, on a few fronts probably not so much. The situations in which each player arrived were obviously pretty drastically different. Whitney was bought out by Detroit and was basically on the scrap heap with all things considered. I don't think that Semin has quite hit that low that Whitney did. What Whitney did that made him no longer a mercenary, in my estimation, was accepting a role that was complimentary and working back up to being recognized league wide as a legit scoring threat again. Suffice it to say, after his 83 point campaign I believe he could have gotten more on the open market than $3.5 million for 3 years. I think that was a tip of the cap by Whitney. The terms under which he left were unfortunate, but I do think that at some point in time Whitney left money on the table for us and that moves him out of that nebulous zone of hired hand and into the fold of a Carolina Hurricane, at least for that point in time. I can understand if one would revise their opinion on him based upon the "don't trade me don't move my family", to sign all the way across the country the next year when we wanted to give him the 1 year deal and Phoenix offered two.

Stillman fits a bit more to me as the pure hired gun. A guy known in previous stops as a bit of a problem in the room. A player that put up a point per game on Lecavalier's wing that Tampa Bay deemed expendable. A guy that was more known for being brash than "fan friendly". A guy who had a tenuous relationship with the media and even still in Carolina didn't do a lot to shake that. He didn't make the effort, in my estimation, that Ray made to make himself a part of this team and community. I can certainly see how one would look at Stillman's situation coming to Carolina and compare it to Semin's situation.

I think with both of these guys you get a good cross section of what you can do to either become a fan favorite or to become a guy who can take off the jersey and leave it at the rink just as easily. It wasn't odd for me to see Stillman in another sweater like it was for me with Whitney. It's not the most accurate barometer, but it's my gut feeling on the subject.

Vagrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2012, 01:29 AM
  #177
ChuckW
We'll be back.
 
ChuckW's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,212
vCash: 500
Uh-oh. If this board brings back the "who is a REAL Hurricane" discussion from the Whitney and Stillman years, I will go ballistic (again).

ChuckW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2012, 03:26 AM
  #178
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
 
Vagrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,178
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckW View Post
Uh-oh. If this board brings back the "who is a REAL Hurricane" discussion from the Whitney and Stillman years, I will go ballistic (again).
While I don't take it incredibly seriously, as it's almost entirely subjective, I do feel that there are players on this team that make it more apparent that they are happy to play for *this* franchise in particular as compared to other franchises they could play for. The benefit of that manifests in different ways, but I think to ignore the fact that it exists would be turning a blind eye to reality. Ideally, I would love to think that everybody that plays here wants to play here and only here until we let them go but it's just not the case.

A certain naivety you have to have to suspend belief in regards to cheering for a crest on a sweater.

Vagrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2012, 07:00 AM
  #179
ChuckW
We'll be back.
 
ChuckW's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
While I don't take it incredibly seriously, as it's almost entirely subjective, I do feel that there are players on this team that make it more apparent that they are happy to play for *this* franchise in particular as compared to other franchises they could play for. The benefit of that manifests in different ways, but I think to ignore the fact that it exists would be turning a blind eye to reality. Ideally, I would love to think that everybody that plays here wants to play here and only here until we let them go but it's just not the case.

A certain naivety you have to have to suspend belief in regards to cheering for a crest on a sweater.
But how do you measure such a thing? Who knows if Eric Staal really wants to play for the Hurricanes? He signed a long-term deal, is that how you measure it? What about a player who'd really love to be on the Leafs, but the Canes offered a better long-term deal? How would we know what he really would prefer?

We're not privy to all the discussions and negotiations, and we don't know which teams contacted what agents, etc. So I don't really see a way to tell what players "really" want to be in a Canes jersey.

ChuckW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2012, 10:02 AM
  #180
What the Faulk
The Real Swede Shady
 
What the Faulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
Posts: 28,035
vCash: 500
Well, if Ray Whitney did retire a Hurricane, he very well would have finished in top 5 team (not franchise) points all-time, with an outside shot of 140 more points to pass Rod Brind'Amour for 4th. That definitely would have made him a Hurricane and removed any consideration of mercenary talk. As it stands he's just outside the top 10, though he's just behind Jeff O'Neill for 7th on the assists list.

The Hurricanes were only Stillman's 4th team compared to Whitney's 6th, though he never really had the scoring touch Whitney did. Carolina also wasn't his longest tenure, though he was traded away while Whitney walked. I think if given the opportunity, Stillman would have stayed.

Semin will at least negotiate long term if it's working for both sides, and I have a feeling it will. I don't really feel like any of them are mercenaries. Honestly, I don't think too many mercenaries exist in today's NHL. Selanne/Kariya to Colorado was a mercenary thing. Can't really point to too many players similar to that with all the 10 year contracts being thrown around lately. I guess the closest would be Marian Hossa's confused years.

What the Faulk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 09:43 AM
  #181
dmonk
doughberle
 
dmonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: Azerbaijan
Posts: 7,982
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dmonk
Not a very good news.. According to Dmitry Chesnokov Semin is nursing an injury. I hope it is nothing serious, but it prevented him from playing in the Lokomotiv tribute game.

From @dchesnokov twitter:
Quote:
"@dchesnokov: #Canes' latest signing Alexander Semin didn't participate in the Lokomotiv Tribute game last weekend due to injury.Docs told him not to play"

dmonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 10:44 AM
  #182
bleedgreen
Moderator
 
bleedgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: colorado
Posts: 10,797
vCash: 500
It's a long way from opening night. I wouldn't fuss over it. Just signing the deal he signed I would hope anyone around him would tell him to sit and not risk anything.

bleedgreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 10:54 AM
  #183
Lethargic
Cthulhu 2016
 
Lethargic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Isle of Misfit Toys
Country: Somalia
Posts: 8,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
It's a long way from opening night. I wouldn't fuss over it. Just signing the deal he signed I would hope anyone around him would tell him to sit and not risk anything.
I am always injured. I don't know anyone who is at 100% all the time.

Lethargic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 12:26 PM
  #184
ChuckW
We'll be back.
 
ChuckW's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMardigan View Post
I am always injured. I don't know anyone who is at 100% all the time.
On the other hand, we are paying him $7 million and he'd better take every precaution to ensure he is at or near 100% for opening night.

ChuckW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 12:42 PM
  #185
TheBigKahuna
Registered User
 
TheBigKahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canes Country
Posts: 2,860
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
will muller give semin his wish and let him penalty kill? ive always been a fan of putting your most dangerous players out there....
Jordan is a decent penalty killer and shorthanded scorer as well, replacing Sutter in that role. So, yes, if Muller does use both Staals and Semin on kills, this team could rack up some SHGs.

TheBigKahuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 08:06 PM
  #186
bleedgreen
Moderator
 
bleedgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: colorado
Posts: 10,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMardigan View Post
I am always injured. I don't know anyone who is at 100% all the time.
Reminds me of my dan patrick back when he was on sport center. "player x is being listed as 'day to day', but aren't we all?".

Having said that, if he signed the deal with us when he knew he had a sore knee that ends up requiring surgery and the year... I hope we put his head on a stick somewhere outside of Raleigh.

bleedgreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 09:04 PM
  #187
Lethargic
Cthulhu 2016
 
Lethargic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Isle of Misfit Toys
Country: Somalia
Posts: 8,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
Reminds me of my dan patrick back when he was on sport center. "player x is being listed as 'day to day', but aren't we all?".

Having said that, if he signed the deal with us when he knew he had a sore knee that ends up requiring surgery and the year... I hope we put his head on a stick somewhere outside of Raleigh.
I am day to day, I have arthritis in both knees, shoulders and hands. I guess I am more dependent on weather for the day to day.

Lethargic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 09:05 PM
  #188
Lethargic
Cthulhu 2016
 
Lethargic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Isle of Misfit Toys
Country: Somalia
Posts: 8,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckW View Post
On the other hand, we are paying him $7 million and he'd better take every precaution to ensure he is at or near 100% for opening night.
Nothing worse then a pro athlete injuring himself in the offseason playing with friends, IE Steve Smith and tons others.

Lethargic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 10:50 PM
  #189
Xylo
CaroladianHurriwings
 
Xylo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cary
Country: United States
Posts: 202
vCash: 500
Or playing Soccer midseason (Erik Cole )

Xylo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 10:54 PM
  #190
bleedgreen
Moderator
 
bleedgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: colorado
Posts: 10,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMardigan View Post
I am day to day, I have arthritis in both knees, shoulders and hands. I guess I am more dependent on weather for the day to day.
I feel ya. I won't bother listing the ailments. If its supposed to move, it hurts.

bleedgreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 11:06 PM
  #191
Snipeshow
Registered User
 
Snipeshow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Newmarket, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
True, but look at last season where they weren't scoring gobs of goals.

Overall team: -18
Ovechkin: -8
Backstrom: -4 (partial season
Semin: +9

He hasn't always been, but the 2-way part of his game has definitely developed over the past few years.
100% agree man.

Snipeshow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2012, 02:53 AM
  #192
cptjeff
[insert joke here]
 
cptjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Washington, DC.
Country: United States
Posts: 8,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckW View Post
But how do you measure such a thing? Who knows if Eric Staal really wants to play for the Hurricanes? He signed a long-term deal, is that how you measure it? What about a player who'd really love to be on the Leafs, but the Canes offered a better long-term deal? How would we know what he really would prefer?

We're not privy to all the discussions and negotiations, and we don't know which teams contacted what agents, etc. So I don't really see a way to tell what players "really" want to be in a Canes jersey.
Staal's shot at the Toronto media during the All Star draft was one of those little revealing moments to my eyes. He was emotionally invested in the franchise and the city, and that's the kind of thing I look for when I'm trying to figure out who's a "real Hurricane" or not.

cptjeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2012, 09:02 AM
  #193
ChuckW
We'll be back.
 
ChuckW's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
I'm trying to figure out who's a "real Hurricane" or not.
WTF! This again?

If they're on the team, they're a real Hurricane. If and when they leave (and under what circumstances/reasons) can reveal whether the player had an interest in being on the team, or whether they just saw it as an opportunity to get paid, but before that day how about we treat all players on the team as if they want to be here?

If you were Ray Whitney or Doug Weight, and you joined a team like the Canes for career reasons or because you saw an opportunity for a big paycheck, and you didn't know jack about the organization or the city it plays in, how would you feel and what impression would it make on you to be confronted with moronic fans who are hostile to you from the get go because even though you wear the sweater you aren't a "real" member of the team?

Yeah that's going to endear the new player to the franchise. I've heard crap like this on sports radio and TV not just the internet so yes players get wind of this sort of stuff.

How self-defeating and self-destructive this kind of attitude is. Why not just fill the team with homegrown draft picks and ignore free agents altogether? Would that make the team better?

Alex Semin is the new recipient of this kind of douchebaggery, joining Weight and Whitney and Samsonov etc etc. Yet others like J. Staal and Recchi seem strangely immune to this kind of crap. Let's make Semin the whipping boy before he even plays a game, then get down on him in all the media after a few games and he hasn't scored 10 goals yet. Let's ***** and moan and call him a fake Hurricane while other players get a free ride. Then at the end of the season we can wonder why he shakes the Carolina dust off his skates and signs elsewhere.

Better yet go watch your 2005-2006 DVD again and pick out the real Hurricanes and the fake ones in the Cup run. Maybe start a petition to take Whitney and Weight's names off the Cup. Might as well because it will be the only Cup we ever win once free agent players get wind of the **** smell coming off these kinds of discussions

ChuckW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2012, 09:07 AM
  #194
Joe McGrath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,791
vCash: 500
We root for laundry. No need for a philisophical debate about who deserves to be associated with that laundry.

Joe McGrath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2012, 09:08 AM
  #195
geehaad
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 3,002
vCash: 500

geehaad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2012, 09:54 AM
  #196
TheBigKahuna
Registered User
 
TheBigKahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canes Country
Posts: 2,860
vCash: 500
Getting overly attached to the meatbag wearing the uniform is a common mistake.

TheBigKahuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2012, 01:31 PM
  #197
cptjeff
[insert joke here]
 
cptjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Washington, DC.
Country: United States
Posts: 8,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckW View Post
Long stupid rant
Some players are there for a paycheck, some get a little more emotionally invested in the community. Nobody's talking about hating the players who don't make the cut and trying to drive them out of town or whatever the hell you were saying, but there are some players who really go above and beyond and endear themselves to the fans and community in various ways.

I think you're misreading people's intent with this conversation, or at least you're misreading mine. By miles- you're absolutely nowhere close.

As a default, we root for laundry, but sometimes a player takes that extra step and becomes something more. It's not a knock on those who don't, just a fact of life. Doesn't mean I'm not rooting for everyone else in that Canes jersey too.

To move this to a different sport and city for some objectivity, do you think Derek Jeter means something more to the team and city than say, Mark Texeria? They're both great players, and fans will cheer just as hard when they get a hit, but it would be stupid to deny that Jeter doesn't mean much much more to the franchise, fans, and city.

Basically, you can take your sanctimonious **** and shove it.

cptjeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2012, 09:18 PM
  #198
Snipeshow
Registered User
 
Snipeshow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Newmarket, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,675
vCash: 500
That shot.. most of the goals the camera can't even follow the puck.



BONUS



Last edited by Snipeshow: 08-23-2012 at 09:25 PM.
Snipeshow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2012, 09:36 PM
  #199
snakepliskin
Registered User
 
snakepliskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wilmington NC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,901
vCash: 500
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz

snakepliskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2012, 09:51 PM
  #200
Rumcajs
Registered User
 
Rumcajs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,166
vCash: 500
Semin scores goals. He occasionally does other things aside from party but dont bet on it.

/end thread

Rumcajs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.