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Old
08-25-2012, 01:03 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Vashanesh View Post
So you'd be fine with the Twins sticking with the status-quo and keeping Gardenhire around for the foreseeable future?

I don't care who comes around and says they like Gardenhire, I want him gone. I want to go back in time 3 years and get rid of him and basically the rest of the coaching staff, medical staff and front office.

This team needs to be gutted, top to bottom. The front office isn't capable, as shown by their lack of movement at the deadline. Our medical staff is a joke, how often do we see someone just get sat for a few days, to find out they're out for weeks? As for the coaching staff, when was the last time we saw a rookie actually belong on this team? Span?

/rant off
Like I said a few posts up we may have to shake things up. As far as character, yes, I like Gardy a lot. I also think if/when we let him go he will make another club a winner for sure.


As far as our club being losers people are blowing that out of proportion as well. It's not like we're the Royals or Pirates or something.Of course this year and last were terrible but that's only two years, not two decades.

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Replacing Gardy won't do as much as getting rid of Vavra and Anderson. Gardy isn't the problem. And Diamond getting six games after no warning was issued beforehand is a joke.
six games for a pitcher isn't as much as people think since that is right around his next start but for sure it is a joke they suspend him and let the best team in the A.L. slide entirely. They should have given Diamond a warning first and foremost; I believe their bias for the Rangers was pretty clear there.

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08-25-2012, 01:09 PM
  #277
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Six games for a pitcher is one game.

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08-25-2012, 01:16 PM
  #278
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Six games for a pitcher is one game.
Exactly. Now as far as how they pay him he might take a minor hit to his pocketbook but the point is he will basically miss one of his games in the rotation. Sucks though because he is our best pitcher.

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08-25-2012, 01:25 PM
  #279
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Yeah the way they handled the situation was really odd. If Diamond hits Hamilton in the back or leg or something a warning is issued and he stays in the game (I assume). This is exactly why I'm always hesitant to applaud retaliating against the other team if they hit you first. I like the never back down attitude, but a pitcher can only control where they throw it so much. Diamond obviously wanted to hit Hamilton lower than he threw it, but it just got away from him and almost nailed him in the head. Diamond isn't a bad guy, but it was a very dangerous pitch.

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08-25-2012, 01:35 PM
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I wonder had Hamilton reacted by charging the mound or something would he have got ejected. Maybe that's why he didn't. I like Hamilton a lot though as both a person and player.

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08-25-2012, 07:09 PM
  #281
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08-25-2012, 07:10 PM
  #282
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About to lose 14 of 16.

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08-25-2012, 07:13 PM
  #283
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About to lose 14 of 16.
They're only 5 starting pitchers, 2 relievers, 2 Middle Infielders, and a 3rd baseman away from being a contender!

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08-25-2012, 07:18 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by 651 View Post
Like I said a few posts up we may have to shake things up. As far as character, yes, I like Gardy a lot. I also think if/when we let him go he will make another club a winner for sure.


As far as our club being losers people are blowing that out of proportion as well. It's not like we're the Royals or Pirates or something.Of course this year and last were terrible but that's only two years, not two decades.



six games for a pitcher isn't as much as people think since that is right around his next start but for sure it is a joke they suspend him and let the best team in the A.L. slide entirely. They should have given Diamond a warning first and foremost; I believe their bias for the Rangers was pretty clear there.
So you're love of Gardy has blinded you to his flaws.

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08-25-2012, 07:41 PM
  #285
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You know our sports scene is crap when you resort to watching the Lynx.

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So you're love of Gardy has blinded you to his flaws.
The guy was manager of the year only a couple years ago. He won six AL Central titles in the last decade. I have not been blinded. Facts are on my side.

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08-25-2012, 07:46 PM
  #286
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You know our sports scene is crap when you resort to watching the Lynx.



The guy was manager of the year only a couple years ago. He won six AL Central titles in the last decade. I have not been blinded. Facts are on my side.
If winning 6 division titles is all you are shooting for, glad you are happy... but if you actually want to quantify REAL success, you need results in the playoffs to show for it as well.

He got to the playoffs and was done. The entire Twins organization has been happy with just GETTING to the playoffs.

The biggest example of that was when the Twins had clinched the Wild Card spot a while back... had a huge beer/champagne bash in the club house after... two days later they actually take the division instead, and what do they do? The same damn thing! They hadn't won ANYTHING yet, and they already partied more than many teams who actually win a playoff series to boot! They go into the playoffs and played a team that did no such party for making the playoffs, win only one game, and are out that quickly. But hey, they had their club house parties to show for it.

That's the team leadership that does that. In their minds, winning the division IS the Wold Series. THAT is poor Management from the top down! EVERYONE involved in leading this team needs to be fired... ESPECIALLY Gardy for allowing that in his club house!

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08-25-2012, 08:02 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
If winning 6 division titles is all you are shooting for, glad you are happy... but if you actually want to quantify REAL success, you need results in the playoffs to show for it as well.

He got to the playoffs and was done. The entire Twins organization has been happy with just GETTING to the playoffs.

The biggest example of that was when the Twins had clinched the Wild Card spot a while back... had a huge beer/champagne bash in the club house after... two days later they actually take the division instead, and what do they do? The same damn thing! They hadn't won ANYTHING yet, and they already partied more than many teams who actually win a playoff series to boot! They go into the playoffs and played a team that did no such party for making the playoffs, win only one game, and are out that quickly. But hey, they had their club house parties to show for it.

That's the team leadership that does that. In their minds, winning the division IS the Wold Series. THAT is poor Management from the top down! EVERYONE involved in leading this team needs to be fired... ESPECIALLY Gardy for allowing that in his club house!
The way the MLB playoffs are structured to have a five game series after duking it out for a massive 162 was never to our benefit seeing as that we never had a stellar rotation really to think of in the recent past. Our pitching has never really been great. And how many times did we get the Yanks or even Detroit and Verlander and eased to three wins? So, yep, we got ousted all those times.

But I won't beat this horse anymore. You feel the way you do and I feel the way I do. Neither of us will change the other. After this season my money is on Gardy is going to be let go after this season. I see it happening.

Now if you'll excuse me I'll get back to watching this crappy Lynx crap.

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08-25-2012, 09:33 PM
  #288
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I like how people keep saying Gardy kept winning with nothing. Because he got swept in the 2006 playoffs, even with a Cy Young Winner, MVP, and the batting champion. Not to mention when Liriano had his wicked stuff. Not to mention we still had Torii Hunter winning a gold glove. We had a legitimate middle infield and power hitting outfielders and he still couldn't get it done. Sure, pitching could be better, but it could have been a hell of a lot worse.

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08-25-2012, 09:35 PM
  #289
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It's called making excuses. If you have low expectations... and are happy with just making the playoffs. You throw them out there all the time.

When you are in the middle of winning 6 division titles, at some point excuses have to stop and playoff results need to start, otherwise you are failing to simply take the next step.

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08-25-2012, 09:36 PM
  #290
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Yep. If we had a hitting coach worth a damn and a pitching coach that still cared about his job, we might be able to squeeze some ball out of some of these guys.

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08-26-2012, 02:20 AM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 651 View Post
Leyland is a legend and one of the best coaches on the planet. https://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=o...w=1024&bih=673

Now on the other hand production has become so stagnant that we might have to ditch Gardy just to mix things up. But you can bet your keester someone will pick him up the second we release him if we do.
And I promise you wherever he goes he WILL NEVER, EVER, win a World Series title. You can quote and book me on that cause that is a GAURENTEE
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Just because someone is a legend doesn't mean they are a great evaluator of others in the same job.

He can evaluate and coach players... that's completely different than judging others ability to do the same thing... especially when he isn't there to see his day to day methods etc.

Gardy is THE most overrated manager in all of baseball...period.

His playoff record speaks volumes.
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Originally Posted by Vashanesh View Post
So you'd be fine with the Twins sticking with the status-quo and keeping Gardenhire around for the foreseeable future?

I don't care who comes around and says they like Gardenhire, I want him gone. I want to go back in time 3 years and get rid of him and basically the rest of the coaching staff, medical staff and front office.

This team needs to be gutted, top to bottom. The front office isn't capable, as shown by their lack of movement at the deadline. Our medical staff is a joke, how often do we see someone just get sat for a few days, to find out they're out for weeks? As for the coaching staff, when was the last time we saw a rookie actually belong on this team? Span?

/rant off

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08-26-2012, 02:21 AM
  #292
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Fire everyone on the Twins and Vikings. Fire the front offices, fire the training staffs, fire the coaching staffs. Fire most of the players while you're at it.

Both of those franchises need a reboot.

And fire Gardenhire. I don't give a flying **** about division titles, all I care about is a god damned world series. Were I part of the Twins organization, celebrations for making the playoffs would be FORBIDDEN, and in fact the only time champagne would be allowed to be uncorked in the clubhouse would be after a World Series Win.

Celebrating division titles like that puts the players minds into "we did everything we need to, now lets sluff off" mode. Case in point: After out last division title we completely sleepwalked into the playoffs to become nothing but target practice for the ****ing Bronx ********. Inexcusable. Absolutely ****ing inexcusable.

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08-26-2012, 02:25 AM
  #293
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If winning 6 division titles is all you are shooting for, glad you are happy... but if you actually want to quantify REAL success, you need results in the playoffs to show for it as well.

He got to the playoffs and was done. The entire Twins organization has been happy with just GETTING to the playoffs.

The biggest example of that was when the Twins had clinched the Wild Card spot a while back... had a huge beer/champagne bash in the club house after... two days later they actually take the division instead, and what do they do? The same damn thing! They hadn't won ANYTHING yet, and they already partied more than many teams who actually win a playoff series to boot! They go into the playoffs and played a team that did no such party for making the playoffs, win only one game, and are out that quickly. But hey, they had their club house parties to show for it.

That's the team leadership that does that. In their minds, winning the division IS the Wold Series. THAT is poor Management from the top down! EVERYONE involved in leading this team needs to be fired... ESPECIALLY Gardy for allowing that in his club house!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
It's called making excuses. If you have low expectations... and are happy with just making the playoffs. You throw them out there all the time.

When you are in the middle of winning 6 division titles, at some point excuses have to stop and playoff results need to start, otherwise you are failing to simply take the next step.
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Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Fire everyone on the Twins and Vikings. Fire the front offices, fire the training staffs, fire the coaching staffs. Fire most of the players while you're at it.

Both of those franchises need a reboot.

And fire Gardenhire. I don't give a flying **** about division titles, all I care about is a god damned world series. Were I part of the Twins organization, celebrations for making the playoffs would be FORBIDDEN, and in fact the only time champagne would be allowed to be uncorked in the clubhouse would be after a World Series Win.

Celebrating division titles like that puts the players minds into "we did everything we need to, now lets sluff off" mode. Case in point: After out last division title we completely sleepwalked into the playoffs to become nothing but target practice for the ****ing Bronx ********. Inexcusable. Absolutely ****ing inexcusable.
God i love you guys. Talon you literally repeated everything i've said for YEARS! Word for word you and Avder and 100 million times over right! Now if only we could all gang up on and just blast this at Antti's face on the Wild boards we're i've had wars trying to talk sense into that obstinent Twins apologist.

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08-26-2012, 03:40 AM
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Fire everyone on the Twins and Vikings. Fire the front offices, fire the training staffs, fire the coaching staffs. Fire most of the players while you're at it.

Both of those franchises need a reboot.

And fire Gardenhire. I don't give a flying **** about division titles, all I care about is a god damned world series. Were I part of the Twins organization, celebrations for making the playoffs would be FORBIDDEN, and in fact the only time champagne would be allowed to be uncorked in the clubhouse would be after a World Series Win.

Celebrating division titles like that puts the players minds into "we did everything we need to, now lets sluff off" mode. Case in point: After out last division title we completely sleepwalked into the playoffs to become nothing but target practice for the ****ing Bronx ********. Inexcusable. Absolutely ****ing inexcusable.
The Vikes are already in rebuilding mode. I for one am pleased with the front office for the Vikes. No need to do anything there right now. Coaching staff... that's up in the air yet. Can't really tell right now when the roster is in such flux due to the ineptitude of Childress.

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08-26-2012, 04:57 AM
  #295
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Fire everyone on the Twins and Vikings. Fire the front offices, fire the training staffs, fire the coaching staffs. Fire most of the players while you're at it.

Both of those franchises need a reboot.
I have said this before; the Twins have been a mirage for a long, long time. They played in a very weak division in the early 2000s and now that they have some legitimate competition? They are really exposing themselves.

Now, the Twins are a wreck. Again, it starts with Mauer. From what I read and heard, their prospect group isn't that great. They haven't made a great trade in over a decade. They don't have anyone really in this organization. Mauer isn't getting any younger and you don't want to be spending that type of money on a guy that isn't going to be your everyday catcher. They need to dump Morneau as well.

But yeah, they need to get rid of the entire front office and their entire coaching staff along with their trainers and well anyone. They need to rebuild and it'll be a very difficult process.

The Vikings are fine. They got rid of that weird, triangle of authority and got a GM. They had a fairly good draft as well. So they are going places.

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08-26-2012, 07:13 AM
  #296
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They dumped the lacky Blackburn; I see that incompetent Duenseng the next to go as I think I can think of one, maybe two times he's had professional outings.

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And I promise you wherever he goes he WILL NEVER, EVER, win a World Series title. You can quote and book me on that cause that is a GAURENTEE

p:
Surely you've a crystal ball shoved down your pants there, chief. I'm sure you've all kinds of predictions for our Wild here as well like everyone else who thinks Parise and Suter will lead us into the promise land.

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08-26-2012, 07:21 AM
  #297
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Now, the Twins are a wreck. Again, it starts with Mauer. From what I read and heard, their prospect group isn't that great. They haven't made a great trade in over a decade. They don't have anyone really in this organization. Mauer isn't getting any younger and you don't want to be spending that type of money on a guy that isn't going to be your everyday catcher. They need to dump Morneau as well.

But yeah, they need to get rid of the entire front office and their entire coaching staff along with their trainers and well anyone. They need to rebuild and it'll be a very difficult process.

The Vikings are fine. They got rid of that weird, triangle of authority and got a GM. They had a fairly good draft as well. So they are going places.
LMFAO - get rid of Mauer and the Vikings are fine. You are a profit, young man.

FWIW, Mauer is only in the running for his fourth batting title and the Vikings are an absolute joke who won't see Frazier through the year they will be so bad. Gutter of the NFC North once again without any question.

There isn't one team on the planet that wouldn't take Mauer in half a second, but the Twins "fans" seem to be incredibly so ignorant as to think he isn't productive and that he is junk and should go. Every time I hear "fans" say Mauer is garbage I cringe. He only averages the highest BA for a catcher in the history of the game.

Surely the long ball isn't really in his arsenal but you cannot say we should have let him go, for a variety of pretty obvious reasons.


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08-26-2012, 08:57 AM
  #298
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LMFAO - get rid of Mauer and the Vikings are fine. You are a profit, young man.

FWIW, Mauer is only in the running for his fourth batting title and the Vikings are an absolute joke who won't see Frazier through the year they will be so bad. Gutter of the NFC North once again without any question.

There isn't one team on the planet that wouldn't take Mauer in half a second, but the Twins "fans" seem to be incredibly so ignorant as to think he isn't productive and that he is junk and should go. Every time I hear "fans" say Mauer is garbage I cringe. He only averages the highest BA for a catcher in the history of the game.

Surely the long ball isn't really in his arsenal but you cannot say we should have let him go, for a variety of pretty obvious reasons.
But he is not an every day catcher.

That cannot be overstated, the guy got a contract based on being the best hitting catcher the game has seen. Now we're seeing that he's slowly seeing more DH and even 1B.

In two years, or even 4+, do you want that contract for an everyday DH, regardless of how well he hits? I sure as hell don't.

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08-26-2012, 09:54 AM
  #299
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But he is not an every day catcher.

That cannot be overstated, the guy got a contract based on being the best hitting catcher the game has seen. Now we're seeing that he's slowly seeing more DH and even 1B.

In two years, or even 4+, do you want that contract for an everyday DH, regardless of how well he hits? I sure as hell don't.
Same could be said for the recent Pujols and Fielder contracts- a couple fatties that will be DH at their end - most of their contracts if they aren't in the very near future. Honestly, at the rate we got Mauer ($18M annually?) it was below market value, and yes, he is not everyday catcher but are there any?

With all due respect and I don't mean any offense but only people that are very dense would advocate we get rid of the catcher who will go down as one of, if not the, greatest catcher the game has ever seen, and he's a Saint Paulite to boot! I am sorry but this sort of talk rubs me the wrong way for so many reasons.

As far as his health sure he had last year where his antics were questionable but I think he got the message from the base that we don't want to tolerate that sort of softness.

I am just not seeing where all this ridiculous hate for Mauer stems from other than last season and him just not being a bomber.

Let us also remember that Mauer is defensively one of the best in the game too with several Gold Gloves to show. What more must the man do besides smash 50 out annually and play every damn game behind the plate for the next decade?

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08-26-2012, 10:59 AM
  #300
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I wish I could watch Baseball Just way too slow for me

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