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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, expansion and relocation, and NHL revenues.

Kansas City NHL Arena deal all but sealed

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Old
01-14-2005, 10:52 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes
Anaheim's staying put.
As is every other team, to the fans from that city. ANY team is a possibility for relocation. I thought the L.A. Rams and Oakland Raiders proved that in spades.

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01-14-2005, 10:56 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
The article never mentioned tennants for the new arena. It didn't mention hockey at all. Jumping the gun a little? Why would the NHL consider relocating a team back to Kansas City when their last visit was a disaster? I would think the NHL would try and focus on hockey markets (Seattle, Portland, etc.) before going back to a city that failed so miserably in the past. I think you've put the cart in front of the horse, and the cart has been built built nor the horse been sired.
One other part on this article that gets me is that besides not having any current NHL or NBA teams moving, and the NHL won't until a new CBA is signed, is that they are raising taxes on "tourists". Like the hotel and rental cars. Thinking that the majority of people in KC using rental cars are tourists is really short sighted. So why tax your residents even further with an arena that has no tennant and won't for the forseeable future? This is more that putting the cart before the horse, this is like buying a riding lawn mower when you live in a high rise apartment on the 20th floor!!! It just isn't needed or necessary. Especially the raising taxes issue.

EDIT: Sorry, I know this is barely a hockey related response, but this is business that has to do with hockey, kinda, maybe, if ever....

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Old
01-14-2005, 11:10 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by scaredsensfan

I cannot see KC getting a team, with St. Louis and the population.
Wow. Wanna check your geography junior? The difference bewteen St. Louis and Kansas City is about the same as Ottawa to Toronto. Should Ottawa be contracted because of the local proximity? Kansas City Metro population is just under 2 million. Ottawa is less than half that.

Keep talking. You're really good at painting yourself into corners for someone who claims to be "smarter" than everyone else.

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01-14-2005, 11:54 AM
  #29
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01-14-2005, 11:59 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
Vancouver, Edmonton, Ottawa, Calgary...have all struggled with attendance when the teams were bad. Teams in 'non-traditional markets' don't get the luxury of that sort of patience from a lot of hockey fans because they resent the fact that they exist to begin with. Nashville or Atlanta could sell out every game for the next five years and it still wouldn't be enough for some people. There's a lot of the "it's my ball and you can't play with it!" attitude on this subject, and it's ridiculous, and should not be taken seriously.
As an American hockey fan, I think Carolina is a disaster, Nashville is a heartbreaker (because that could be a hockey town, but just isn't right now), and Atlanta was a mistake (if the NBA can't draw in a Southern city, what can the NHL do?).

Florida? That's more a case where I think that state needs one hockey franchise. I don't know...Miami does OK for itself, but will it every be a must-see team in the winter?

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01-14-2005, 12:04 PM
  #31
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Idiot

Quote:
Wow. Wanna check your geography junior? The difference bewteen St. Louis and Kansas City is about the same as Ottawa to Toronto. Should Ottawa be contracted because of the local proximity? Kansas City Metro population is just under 2 million. Ottawa is less than half that.
The metro Ottawa population is 1.3 million. The concentration of hockey fans in Ottawa is 5 or 6 times bigger than Kansas City. Ottawa has no other 'big 4 teams', Kansas City has Two. Only an idiot would equate market size as being the sole determinant to a team. Kansas City does not have the population base, or hockey fan base more importantly that is needed, especially with 2 other pro-teams in the area.

Ottawa also has one of the highest average incomes as well as disposable income in the NHL. I believe they are the highest of all the Canadian teams, although I may be mistaken.

Keep trying.

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Old
01-14-2005, 12:31 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
The metro Ottawa population is 1.3 million. The concentration of hockey fans in Ottawa is 5 or 6 times bigger than Kansas City. Ottawa has no other 'big 4 teams', Kansas City has Two. Only an idiot would equate market size as being the sole determinant to a team. Kansas City does not have the population base, or hockey fan base more importantly that is needed, especially with 2 other pro-teams in the area.

Ottawa also has one of the highest average incomes as well as disposable income in the NHL. I believe they are the highest of all the Canadian teams, although I may be mistaken.

Keep trying.
Ah, okay. Keep changing the target numbers while you are at it. Wanna add a qualifer that Ottawa has the most left-handed albino hockey fans who have an alergy to shellfish as well? Give up already.


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Old
01-14-2005, 12:35 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD Jester
As an American hockey fan, I think Carolina is a disaster, Nashville is a heartbreaker (because that could be a hockey town, but just isn't right now), and Atlanta was a mistake (if the NBA can't draw in a Southern city, what can the NHL do?).

Florida? That's more a case where I think that state needs one hockey franchise. I don't know...Miami does OK for itself, but will it every be a must-see team in the winter?

Carolina is the only one I'm willing to give you right now. Atlanta hasn't been successful yet and Nashville got the attendance when they were. I can't say much about Florida because I honestly don't know.

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Old
01-14-2005, 12:40 PM
  #34
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they need to move the oilers there.

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Old
01-14-2005, 12:41 PM
  #35
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They need to send a succesful team there if it's going to catch up, that's how you make hockey fans for life, by winning Stanley Cups. It would be unfortunate for Carolina to have a team for a few years, do almost nothing with it, and then get moved to Kensas city, if a team is relocated, I hope it's not Carolina, if it is, shame on the owners and GM, they did nothing.

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01-14-2005, 12:57 PM
  #36
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I hear don the radio a little while back....
Who is this "Don the radio" character?


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01-14-2005, 01:05 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reilly311
they need to move the oilers there.
Or rather, the Wings? Kill two problems with one stone.

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Old
01-14-2005, 01:07 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
You think that.. Pittsburgh (without Lemieux), Buffalo, etc. are big draws in Canada? .
I know Pittsburgh is a big draw around the league. Lots of transplanted Pittsburghers.

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Old
01-14-2005, 01:07 PM
  #39
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Rexall Place sells out whenever the Pens come to town. They only come once a year, and we got to see MA Fleury play.

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01-14-2005, 01:58 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
The metro Ottawa population is 1.3 million. The concentration of hockey fans in Ottawa is 5 or 6 times bigger than Kansas City. Ottawa has no other 'big 4 teams', Kansas City has Two. Only an idiot would equate market size as being the sole determinant to a team. Kansas City does not have the population base, or hockey fan base more importantly that is needed, especially with 2 other pro-teams in the area.

Ottawa also has one of the highest average incomes as well as disposable income in the NHL. I believe they are the highest of all the Canadian teams, although I may be mistaken.

Keep trying.
The only reason that Ottawa is in the league is as a sop to the Canadian politicians during expansion. They've already gone bankrupt once. They receive only lukewarn support, having failed to sell out regularly over the past 5 years, despite having one of the top teams in the NHL.

You also overstate the population. Ottawa itself is only 800K. Much of the adjacent area is across the river in Quebec, which is Montreal territory and does not stronmgly support the Senators.

In sum, they are a marginal franchise at best. They are saved now by the high Canadian dollar. But that won't last forever, nor will their winning ways.

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01-14-2005, 02:05 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benji Frank
And Minnesota........
Was a safe bet to draw.

As for KC... it could work, because there's no NBA team. Between football and baseball, there isn't another sport in town. So from that standpoint, it might survive enough until whatever franchise is there, whether new expansion or a moved team, gets some legs under it in KC.

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Old
01-14-2005, 02:24 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
If you're going to be giving second chances, give it to traditional hockey markets like Quebec and Winnipeg where the game is a religion. I think the NHL will be forward thiking enough after the financial troubles it has gone through to consider past mistakes over shiny new buildings with no traditional market.
Not likely under the NHL business plans. Winnipeg and Quebec just do not fit what Bettman is looking for.

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Old
01-14-2005, 02:39 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnie
The only reason that Ottawa is in the league is as a sop to the Canadian politicians during expansion. They've already gone bankrupt once. They receive only lukewarn support, having failed to sell out regularly over the past 5 years, despite having one of the top teams in the NHL.

You also overstate the population. Ottawa itself is only 800K. Much of the adjacent area is across the river in Quebec, which is Montreal territory and does not stronmgly support the Senators.

In sum, they are a marginal franchise at best. They are saved now by the high Canadian dollar. But that won't last forever, nor will their winning ways.
Agreed.

The year they won the President's Trophy they only had 2 or 3 sellouts the whole season.

What happens if they backslide? Hard to imagine the team having any better regular seasons than they have lately.

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Old
01-14-2005, 02:58 PM
  #44
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hahahaha

Quote:
The only reason that Ottawa is in the league is as a sop to the Canadian politicians during expansion. They've already gone bankrupt once. They receive only lukewarn support, having failed to sell out regularly over the past 5 years, despite having one of the top teams in the NHL.
Oh yes, please educate me, you know so much more than me, I just live in this market...

The city of Ottawa is 800,000. The 'Quebec Side' is 300,000 and have plenty of Senators fans. The belief that this is still Canadiens only territory is stupid.

You dont call 18 sellouts in 41 games last year 'regular sellouts'?

The 100 point seasons are nice, but we've had 1 good playoff run in 9 years. They averaged 17,800 last season with the 7th highest prices in the league.

Also, if Ottawa had capacity of 17,500 like several rinks in the league do, we'd have 99% or 100% capacity every night.

Only someone ignorant such as yourself would equate the bankruptcy to anything other than ownership, which has nothing to do with the market. Nice try.

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Old
01-14-2005, 03:09 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
Oh yes, please educate me, you know so much more than me, I just live in this market...

The city of Ottawa is 800,000. The 'Quebec Side' is 300,000 and have plenty of Senators fans. The belief that this is still Canadiens only territory is stupid.

You dont call 18 sellouts in 41 games last year 'regular sellouts'?

The 100 point seasons are nice, but we've had 1 good playoff run in 9 years. They averaged 17,800 last season with the 7th highest prices in the league.

Also, if Ottawa had capacity of 17,500 like several rinks in the league do, we'd have 99% or 100% capacity every night.

Only someone ignorant such as yourself would equate the bankruptcy to anything other than ownership, which has nothing to do with the market. Nice try.
Well, you did say that Ottawa was 1.3 million people, and got called out on it, and then proceeded to say Ottawa was 800K and the Quebec side (Hull) was 300K. 800K+300K doesn't equal 1.3 million.

Also, when you have one of the best teams in the NHL and only manage 18 out 41 sellouts, that kind of hurts your stance too. Mind you, I do love the old "if Ottawa had capacity of 17,500 like several rinks in the league do, we'd have 99% or 100% capacity every night." Great, move to Winnipeg where you'll be playing to 120% capacity each game. :lol

As well, the local economic factors normally have more to do with a bankruptcy than the owner. Most bankruptcies take place because of outside influences on the business, not just poor decisions by the owner. I think Bryden has been a pretty smart guy to get where is, its not his fault that the Ottawa fans can't fill a building for the best team in the league.

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Old
01-14-2005, 09:14 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
Oh yes, please educate me, you know so much more than me, I just live in this market...
Welcome to our world.

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Old
01-14-2005, 10:33 PM
  #47
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With many teams I don't blame fans for going either, if they play boring hockey. For many years Ottawa played really boring clutch hockey, haven't watched them in the last few years to know. The same is true for New Jersey. If I lived in either of those cities the only time I would ever go to a game is when an exciting offensively minded team came to town.

I never blame any fans for avoiding a team that lives on the trap.

Though when it comes down to it, I will always love offensive hockey as an Oilers fan. I would rather have a team play exciting hockey all year and in the playoffs and not win the cup. The to fall asleep watching a bunch of boring games.

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01-15-2005, 12:48 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
The article never mentioned tennants for the new arena. It didn't mention hockey at all. Jumping the gun a little? Why would the NHL consider relocating a team back to Kansas City when their last visit was a disaster? I would think the NHL would try and focus on hockey markets (Seattle, Portland, etc.) before going back to a city that failed so miserably in the past. I think you've put the cart in front of the horse, and the cart has been built built nor the horse been sired.
Seattle and Portland are nothing even close to NHL markets, I'm sorry to tell you. they have about as much chance as WInnipeg of getting a team, maybe less. And far less than Quebec, and other American cities.

As for Kansas city, I would say they have a decent shot at the next relocation. Surely some of these market problems cant last.

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01-15-2005, 12:55 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Well, you did say that Ottawa was 1.3 million people, and got called out on it, and then proceeded to say Ottawa was 800K and the Quebec side (Hull) was 300K. 800K+300K doesn't equal 1.3 million.

Also, when you have one of the best teams in the NHL and only manage 18 out 41 sellouts, that kind of hurts your stance too. Mind you, I do love the old "if Ottawa had capacity of 17,500 like several rinks in the league do, we'd have 99% or 100% capacity every night." Great, move to Winnipeg where you'll be playing to 120% capacity each game. :lol

As well, the local economic factors normally have more to do with a bankruptcy than the owner. Most bankruptcies take place because of outside influences on the business, not just poor decisions by the owner. I think Bryden has been a pretty smart guy to get where is, its not his fault that the Ottawa fans can't fill a building for the best team in the league.
HAHA!!! Ottawa is the least of the leagues worries. I'd say we should start critisizing the Nhl for putting teams in uninterested markets, such as Miami, Raighleigh, ANAHEIM???, Nashville, etc. Putting teams in marginal markets for their imediate money was possibly the worst move in NHL history.

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Old
01-15-2005, 01:17 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by nucks&flames
HAHA!!! Ottawa is the least of the leagues worries. I'd say we should start critisizing the Nhl for putting teams in uninterested markets, such as Miami, Raighleigh, ANAHEIM???, Nashville, etc. Putting teams in marginal markets for their imediate money was possibly the worst move in NHL history.

Yeah. The lack of interest in the cities that gave you your user name was forgivable, though. I mean...the teams were bad, who could blame the fans for not coming out? That certainly doesn't apply to Carolina or Phoen-- Oh..wait.

Nevermind.

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