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Old
07-30-2012, 08:58 AM
  #326
habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
Gauthier

Good:
Signing Cole
Convincing Emelin to finally come over
Trading Gill for Geoffrion, Slaney and a 2nd (Dalton Thrower)

Okay:
Signing Diaz
Trading Kostitsyn (maybe could have gotten more)
Re-signing Gorges
Firing Jacques Martin

Bad:
Trading Cammalleri
The whole Cammalleri situation (asking for $1,000 for his jersey, etc.)
Trading Spacek for Kaberle
Signing Campoli
Firing Perry Pearn (more the timing than the move itself)
The Cunneyworth situation

Final Grade: D
Agree with a lot of it, expect

I would say the Cammalleri trade was "okay".

Same for the Kaberle trade, MTL has 7.4M in cap space with 22/23 roster spots filled (subban), and that is with Gomez included, Kaberle cap hit isn't really an issue. And he can be flipped for a 2nd round pick at the trade deadline if Markov proves he is back to 100%.

Also the Cunneyworth situation was handled pretty badly from top to bottom, and I actually blame Molson more than Gauthier, Molson was the one that came out and said Cunneyworth was only an interim coach. But the hiring itself was pretty bad, Cunneyworth was a horrible coach, with Martin we finish 9th-10th in the East, so looking at it that way, firing Martin and hiring Cunneyworth was a +

Overall I'd give Gauthier a C-.


Last edited by habs03: 07-30-2012 at 11:20 AM.
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Old
07-30-2012, 09:07 AM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastasaurus View Post
It goes hand in hand with not getting rid of thomas, you get rid of thomas and trade boychuk and there is your 8 mil
To be fair to Chiarelli though, teams were always going to try to get to the cap floor by signing players that would help them immediately first, before looking at taking on Thomas to help that. He is stuck with him for awhile yet, so it would've been almost impossible to move him prior to that.

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Old
07-30-2012, 09:16 AM
  #328
Zajacs Bowl Cut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JA#11 View Post
You guys were a 6th seed that needed TWELVE shootout wins just to get to that seed so a few of those gimmick "wins" go the otherway and you have a tenth seed team.

One cinderalla run doesnt make the pretend powerhouse guys like you are trying to make them out to be...LOU lost his best all around player and he has no assets of any value to try and improve the team so stop with the offseason isnt over yet because for the devils it pretty much is


Hence why devils fans are clinging to yesteryear with the calls for gionta,arnott and gomez...lol, yes, scott gomez!!!

That should sum up the despair and lackof options lou has left the devils with

And keep telling yourself zach had Nj as the runner up...if it werent Minny it wouldve been somewhere else..he saw what is on the horizon with bankruptcy looming and no prospects to replace guys that are the oldest roster in the NHL
DEVILS ALARM RINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

the Kings won the Cup and they made the playoffs on the last weekend. should they just be considered a "Cinderella" with no chance of being good or getting back there this year? I see many people predicting them to do very well again next year. its the same argument, chief.

saying we have no prospects and are going into bankruptcy just proves you know nothing

and no real Devils fan wants Gomez, Arnott, etc back. none. so stop with that garbage.


Henrique, its over.


Last edited by spiny norman: 07-30-2012 at 09:27 AM. Reason: not needed
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Old
07-30-2012, 09:22 AM
  #329
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Yup, its the GM's fault that he is not spending money.
I see you've never met Mr. Mike Illitch before.

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Old
07-30-2012, 09:23 AM
  #330
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Since I'm a little confused with what the OP is Asking
Buffalo Sabres
This Past Season '11-'12(is this what they meant by This year?)
Drafting: (C-) Got a nice pick with Armia, but did poorly with the rest. Though I do like our selection of Lepkowski
Trades: (C) Didn't do Enough to shore up our troubles at Center(though traded for Hodgson which is nice) but still have the same questions as previous year. Traded a 3rd/4th line center for a 1st. Received primary negotiating rights to Ehroff who turned out to be best D-man. Addressed backend issues with toughness by acquiring Regehr but left top 9 with toughness questions which were apparent previous year and surfaced during the year.
Signings: (D) On the surface, looks like he overpaid for 2nd best player. However, since hes here for a bit, I'm willing to wait before I call this signing a bust. Outside of this, not much action seen here.
Overall: (C-) had issues that needed to be addressed with team toughness and center depth, Did nothing to fix this issue unless you call signing a Winger to be a center. As many holes as he had in the beginning of the year, he had that many at the end.

This Year: '12-'13 , if we had one, too early to tell.

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Old
07-30-2012, 09:23 AM
  #331
FlamingTelepath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skobel24 View Post
Feaster : Ownership has said they want to try to compete, so you can't really blame him for not rebuilding, seeing as it wasn't his choice.

Team has gotten younger, drafting has turned around. Some questionable signings this offseason, failed to make playoffs last season. Gave younger prospects a chance to show what they can do at the NHL level (Something Sutter rarely did). Despite trading down to get Jankowski, they still managed to snag a few solid picks.

I give him a C-. He's addressed a few needs for the franchise, but there is still plenty of work left to be done.
Pretty much my thoughts, although I think he deserves a bump to at least C+ because of the Cammalleri trade. The future of the franchise looks a lot brighter than it did when Darryl got fired IMO.

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Old
07-30-2012, 09:25 AM
  #332
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How did the Devils ever make the finals without shootout wins!?

ohwaitHenrique!IT'SOVER!

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Old
07-30-2012, 09:29 AM
  #333
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Its way to early but for Marc Bergevin, I'd give him a B, B-.


Very inexperienced, but surrounded himself with not one but two very experienced ast. GM in Rick Dudley and Larry Carriere.

Addressed a serious organizational issue, player development, so many young guys were traded away because of poor development, Mtl is a tough city to start in at such a young age, and not everyone can handle, Grabo, S.Kost, Latendresse, almost lost Price. Before it was handled by Trevor Timmins, but it was far too much work for him, he was in charge of this along with being head amateur scout. Bergevin has not only added a few more scouts to help Timmins, but also hired Brisebois and Martin Lapointe to take over player development.


Michel Therrien isn't a good coach, and I would actually have put this under bad, but good ast coaches were hired to offset that, Gallant, and Daigneault were very good hires, as was Jodoin who will be the 3rd ast coach, he has a history of being good with young guys, and can be a calm influence for Therrien temper.

Also liked the Sylvain Lefebvre hiring as head coach of the AHL Bulldogs.

As for transactions

Mtl has a need for a top 6 forward, and a top 4 d-men. Both have not been addressed yet, but its far to early.

But he did add some toughness, kept Moen at a good price 1.8M, Bouillon at 1.5M, Amrstrong at 1M, Prust at 2.5M(overpaid by 700K).

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Old
07-30-2012, 09:36 AM
  #334
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Chuck Fletcher, A

+ Zach Parise
+ Ryan Suter
+ Torrey Mitchell
+ Zenon Konopka

- Guillaume Latendresse
- Nick Johnson
- Warren Peters
- Erik Christensen
- Mike Lundin

Tom Gilbert for Nick Schultz
Steven Kampfer for Greg Zanon
Picks and prospects for Marek Zidlicky

Re-signed Kyle Brodziak
Re-signed Josh Harding
Re-signed Clayton Stoner

Drafted Mat Dumba



Overpaying Mitchell and losing Lats for nothing is completely canceled out by adding the top two free agents. Last season he moved a mediocre defensive D-man for a quality offensive D-man, then moved two troublemakers for picks and prospects. He kept some quality younger veterans too. Of course adding Dumba keeps stacking the prospect pool.

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Old
07-30-2012, 09:39 AM
  #335
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[QUOTE=Zajacs Bowl Cut;53109941]DEVILS ALARM RINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

the Kings won the Cup and they made the playoffs on the last weekend. should they just be considered a "Cinderella" with no chance of being good or getting back there this year? I see many people predicting them to do very well again next year. its the same argument, chief.

saying we have no prospects and are going into bankruptcy just proves you know nothing

and no real Devils fan wants Gomez, Arnott, etc back. none. so stop with that garbage.


Henrique, its over.[/QUOTE

Yeah..you guys are setup just like the kings personel wise...

And then you challenge me on the no prospects and bankruptcy so you tell me...is it every hockey publication that has the devils pool in the bottom 5 each yr for a decade wrong or is it devil fans like youself in denial?

Having to dig up fossils like sykora doesnt supportyour stance to well!

All this talk about trades is just that...talk.

What players/prospects can lou offer up to bring anything more than spare parts back to NJ?

Still waiting on that response from devil fans thinking a trade will fill the GAPING holethat Zach left

And the whole"bankruptcy isnt looming" camp you are in is a even higher level of total denial...where isJVBs white knight...his horse must've brokedown on the way to the rescue!

And because of the above why on earth would zajac not walk fora better and more stable situation at yrs end?


Last edited by JR#9*: 07-30-2012 at 09:50 AM.
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Old
07-30-2012, 09:48 AM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Bowman -C-

he didn't trade any crucial pieces to get a stopgap like Rebeiro.
Nevermind the fact you butchered his name, a 2nd round pick is not a crucial piece, and before you get into the whole East-West crap, next years 1st isn't crucial either. With Ribs, it's a late pick and the prospect pool is well loaded.

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Old
07-30-2012, 09:50 AM
  #337
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Lol @ the people thinking getting rid of Thomas' contract is the easiest thing in the world.

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Old
07-30-2012, 10:08 AM
  #338
Bill Ladd
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Chiarelli: D+/C-

He's been below average since the Cup run, IMO...

-He let Ryder and Kaberle walk, Recchi retired, and in two years, he still hasn't done anything to replace that depth. Granted, these guys aren't/weren't stars but there's still a big dropoff from, say Ryder to Pouliot, and it's shown on the ice.

-He hasn't done anything to address the power play. It was a historical anomaly they won the Cup with a PP as bad as they had and it was a huge factor in them losing to the Caps last year.

-If he's not going to change the mix of players on the PP (who are almost all RH shots) he could at least change the PP coach. Doug Jarvis ran a very successful PP in MTL but they continue to let Ward run the show.

-Last year, he failed to address the Bruins needs at the trade deadline, which I know is hard to do and not always a guarantee, but he put himself in that corner by not signing any UFA's. He's doing the same thing this year.

-Last year's team also really struggled due to injury, specifically Nate Horton, but Chiarelli hasn't brought in any insurance. I know some Bruins fans take offense at the suggestion that Horton might not make it through a whole year, but even if you say he's going to be healthy all year, injuries still occur. Last year, the B's other top6 forwards missed ~66 games.

-I don't like that they sat on $9m in cap space last year. And I don't like that he's going to let almost $6m in cap space go unused this year. (That's $4m in Savard's LTI and another ~$1.5+ in plain old cap space.) We can hope he's saving it for the deadline, but again, look at how that plan worked out last year.


I like that he re-signed Julien. I think he's one of the best in the league. And I think that, outside the players mentioned above (who he did make offers to) he's done a good job of retaining important players and signing them to cap friendly deals. But overall, this team is stuck in neutral, with no additions or improvements, yet not quite as good as the Cup team.

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Old
07-30-2012, 10:10 AM
  #339
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Quote:
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How did that work out for the Flyers? If NSN are gonna match Flyers, you bet their ass they'll match a rival. c'mon man, everyone already knew this.
Okay, that's Weber. Now what are the excuses for every other top free agent and trade opportunity Detroit's been in on but couldn't get this offseason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Not what I said. I said they are solid (and younger) and have Jimmy Howard (who will get better every year) shutting the door.
I don't see solidity. I see one pairing which may work out (Kronwall-White) having to go up against top competition, another pairing (Quincey-Ericsson) which has been shaky and needs to rebound, and two kids (Kindl-Smith) who need to hit the ground running if there's any hope left. "Solid" is not the word I'd choose to describe. I'm thinking more "riddled with question marks and maybe-ifs".

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Ummm, you didn't even read my post? I said NOBODY can and will replace Lidstrom, nobody. If that is the goal, then guess what, gonna be lots of sad pandas all over the NHL.
Ostensibly somebody has to take on the role of #1D. That's not a problem that will be fixed by ignoring it and hoping it'll magically go away, y'know.

Quote:
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All prospects are the same? M'kay then.
No, but small sample sizes still remain unhelpful when dealing with prospects, since performances change as more time and more games are added.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
How was Ericsson #7 when he got lots of PK minutes. Are you telling me other teams don't put their best goal scorers out on the PP? That's just crazy talk.
I thought I'd said that those were 5-on-5 stats, but apparently I skipped doing so. Grar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Stuart was bad. He's gone. Also one of the Assistant coaches was demoted and a better defensive coach was brought in. Lets see how they do. And Kronwall looked pretty damn good to me. did you watch any games?
Watched several. Kronwall is frequently able to look good 'cause he gets noticed when he levels a hit. He's otherwise unspectacular IMO. I didn't see any particular reason why the stats would make him appear overmatched, though, but then again I didn't watch the entire season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
He has to be better than Conklin. Conklin single-handedly loss games on his own. He was bad.
I love this "anybody but the current guy" stuff. It's so charmingly naive. Reminds me of folks advocating that we dump Mason and bring in Al Montoya...

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Just like Datsyuk and Zetterberg. He will have to earn it. Holland likes to take his time, but if it means injecting super-stars, then I guess he knows what he knows what he is doing and nobody can second-guess him.
Well, the way you're describing him, it sounds like he's already a top-4 NHLer despite only playing 14 games.

And this still isn't justifying an A+ rating for Holland. It's showing benefit of the doubt - which, while normally virtuous and something I commend, is not exactly useful when trying to do critical analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Since when is there a guarantee in the NHL? If there was guarantees, then Canucks would have won the cup last year.

If you are looking for guarantees, then you are a fan of the wrong sport.
I'm looking for guarantees here because that's about the only way you can justify giving Holland an A+. I think the whole idea is lunacy as well.

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07-30-2012, 10:18 AM
  #340
Fastasaurus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
To be fair to Chiarelli though, teams were always going to try to get to the cap floor by signing players that would help them immediately first, before looking at taking on Thomas to help that. He is stuck with him for awhile yet, so it would've been almost impossible to move him prior to that.
Yea but to me I would have even been willing to package a pick to get rid of him. Im not saying easiest thing ever but there are teams who would gladly take that contract (Isles,Phoenix,Florida) to make sure they dont have to spend a dime to get to the floor.

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07-30-2012, 10:20 AM
  #341
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Lol @ the people thinking getting rid of Thomas' contract is the easiest thing in the world.
Not the easiest by any stretch but very important. Something like Hey Islanders Thomas and 6th for a 7th.

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Old
07-30-2012, 10:26 AM
  #342
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Pierre Gauthier F

Trading a star player mid-game
Firing an assistant coach before a game
Firing Martin a little too late
Not realizing there will need to be a rebuild
Poor trading record. (Kaberle)

The man just didn't know what he was doing. He seemed content on riding out what Gainey had built.

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Old
07-30-2012, 10:34 AM
  #343
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Okay, that's Weber. Now what are the excuses for every other top free agent and trade opportunity Detroit's been in on but couldn't get this offseason?
Seems like they only went hard after Suter in FA. Apparently they made offer to Salo, but idk, maybe they didn't offer enough money or something.

For Suter they made offer of 13/88, according to Ansar Khan who knows stuff about DET pretty well. They didn't have chance to counter, where at it right till the end but he wanted to play with Parise and also sited family reasons.

They only offered 73 mil over 13 years for Parise.. cap hit of 5.6 mil. Indicating they didn't want Parise that badly. Or Semin, whom they didn't seem to make even an offer or at least not competitive one. Seems like they weren't interested. They were after Doan, apparently Doan had taken touch at Wings but money seems to be too big, or at least the term.

Nash and Weber are in the same division atm. According to sources we made pretty good offer, something like Franzen and/or Fil, Nyquist, Cleary and a pick and maybe a prospect. Though, Holland didn't disclose what the offer was so this is just speculation. Columbus didn't want to trade with us. And I don't think Nashville did either. And we don't have enough assets to compete with other teams.


Quote:
I don't see solidity. I see one pairing which may work out (Kronwall-White) having to go up against top competition, another pairing (Quincey-Ericsson) which has been shaky and needs to rebound, and two kids (Kindl-Smith) who need to hit the ground running if there's any hope left. "Solid" is not the word I'd choose to describe. I'm thinking more "riddled with question marks and maybe-ifs".
Agree to certain extent, expect regarding Smith. Kindl is big question mark, but Smith has looked solid and holds a lot of promise. No more, no less at this point.


Btw, I wouldn't give Holland A+.

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07-30-2012, 10:47 AM
  #344
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since the "average" gm here appears to get a b to b+ I think it's clear we need to start grading on a curve.

That being said, I'd say Chevy performed slightly above Average, with a relative score of B to B+.


The Good:

Addressed the organizations biggest need with the acquisition of the best available Center in Free Agency in Olli jokinen.

Improved overall size and toughness with the Addition of Poni to play on the third line.

Removed Tanner glass and tim stapleton. Glass an energy player who was being asked to play a shut-down third line role and failed miserably, and Stapleton was a power play specialist, likely to be replaced by call up Paul Postma.

Improved depth to move players back into roles more suited to their skill level (Little back to second line, thus antropov back to third)

Potential for a very good third line in Ponikarovsky Antropov and Wellwood/Burmistrov, a huge improvement over Glass Slater and Thorburn which was stastically one of the worst fourth lines in the league last year (and was playing as a third!)

Good asset management on the Johnny Oduya trade

Resigned pavelec to a long term though questionable deal (one season of .92 and it's no longer questionable)

Resigned Enstrom to an excellent long term deal

Allegedly negotiating a long term deal for E Kane.

resigned depth players in wellwood and slater for very reasonable deals.

Drafted a good looking defensive prospect in Jacob trouba and good depth pick in Scott Kosmachuk in the third round.




The bad:

Draft in generally could have used more offensive talent.

Late drafting off the board goalies seemed like a stretch (though if your going to go off the board it might as well be goalies)

Would like to see an improvement in Defense, hopefully moving hainsey out of the top 4

Missed on a couple deals to add discount players with offensive flair that could have bounced back (such as peter mueller and wojtek wolski)

Pavelec contract could backfire, and until he shows improvement, it is closer to the negative column then the positive column.


In general i feel Winnipeg is one of the more improved teams in the offseason, and was done so while avoiding the costs of high priced/longterm contracts and risky blockbuster trades. Would like to see chevy get a little "riskier" with his drafting tendancies but i think he's done pretty well thus far.


so if we were to normalise the rankings on here (a B to B+ would probably be a C) I would then give Chevy a B-B+.

Using a score on the same optimistic charts as most have been, i give Chevy an A.

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Old
07-30-2012, 10:51 AM
  #345
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Yea but to me I would have even been willing to package a pick to get rid of him. Im not saying easiest thing ever but there are teams who would gladly take that contract (Isles,Phoenix,Florida) to make sure they dont have to spend a dime to get to the floor.
Doubt any of them would "gladly" take his contract. Many GMs believe the cap will be lower after the new CBA is negotiated, so the budget team GMs below the floor aren't likely to look to do anything to fix it until there's a new CBA.

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Old
07-30-2012, 10:55 AM
  #346
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Gotta give Slats an A even though he still needs to sign MDZ, which can change his grade up or down. Gotta say Shero tops them all. I strongly disagree with Boomer & Laughlin's rating of Poile, way too high.

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07-30-2012, 10:58 AM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gifted88 View Post
Pierre Gauthier F

Trading a star player mid-game
Firing an assistant coach before a game
Firing Martin a little too late
Not realizing there will need to be a rebuild
Poor trading record. (Kaberle)

The man just didn't know what he was doing. He seemed content on riding out what Gainey had built.
No he gets an F- !!! He makes Darryl Sutter's GMing look like an A+.

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07-30-2012, 11:07 AM
  #348
habs03
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No he gets an F- !!! He makes Darryl Sutter's GMing look like an A+.
Not sure if serious...

The guy was a horrible GM in the sense of being a leader and head of hockey organisation. But its hard to take post season when arguable was the Spacek for Kaberle trade, which he basically gave up nothing, added a 40 point d-men for 2 years at 4.25M.

If Kaberle was a UFA, and Habs signed him to a 2 year 4.25M everybody would be talking about what a great, low risk move for the habs, a backup plan for the PP if Markov gets hurt again.


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07-30-2012, 11:11 AM
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gifted88 View Post
Pierre Gauthier F

Trading a star player mid-game
Firing an assistant coach before a game
Firing Martin a little too late
Not realizing there will need to be a rebuild
Poor trading record. (Kaberle)

The man just didn't know what he was doing. He seemed content on riding out what Gainey had built.
When should have he fired JM?

The year before, right after JM lead the Habs to a 96 point season, and 6th in the East?

Or you mean after the 1-5-3 start this past year?

One of PG mistake was firing JM after the Habs started to play better, Habs record with JM was 13-12-7 after that horrible start.

Also he acquired 3 extrea 2nd round picks last year, so its tough to say he wasn't making moves for the future.

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07-30-2012, 11:21 AM
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Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Seems like they only went hard after Suter in FA. Apparently they made offer to Salo, but idk, maybe they didn't offer enough money or something.

For Suter they made offer of 13/88, according to Ansar Khan who knows stuff about DET pretty well. They didn't have chance to counter, where at it right till the end but he wanted to play with Parise and also sited family reasons.

They only offered 73 mil over 13 years for Parise.. cap hit of 5.6 mil. Indicating they didn't want Parise that badly. Or Semin, whom they didn't seem to make even an offer or at least not competitive one. Seems like they weren't interested. They were after Doan, apparently Doan had taken touch at Wings but money seems to be too big, or at least the term.

Nash and Weber are in the same division atm. According to sources we made pretty good offer, something like Franzen and/or Fil, Nyquist, Cleary and a pick and maybe a prospect. Though, Holland didn't disclose what the offer was so this is just speculation. Columbus didn't want to trade with us. And I don't think Nashville did either. And we don't have enough assets to compete with other teams.
Duly noted. I'm aware of the reality of the situation, but it seemed like several Wings fans (you know, the vocal minority that is utterly assured that everybody will be wearing the Winged Wheel because who wouldn't want to play for Detroit? gah) have issues with acknowledging same, based on how apparently every FA and possible trade target on the market was the infallable backup plan in case (G-d and Illich forbid) someone might decide to sign elsewhere. So I admittedly tend to enjoy throwing that back in their face. Not my intention to get the rest of the Wings fanbase in the crossfire. or at least that's what I keep telling myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Agree to certain extent, expect regarding Smith. Kindl is big question mark, but Smith has looked solid and holds a lot of promise. No more, no less at this point.
Fair enough. My objection is simply based on the fact that the guy I was responding to apparently assumes that having lots of promise means you should already be in the All-Star Game or something. I fully expect Smith to eventually be awesome... but that doesn't mean it's safe to jump the gun like that.

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