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Dion Phaneuf's next contract?

View Poll Results: Phaneuf's next contract
3 years @ 6.5M 54 42.86%
5 years @ 4.5M 45 35.71%
3 years @ 4M 7 5.56%
There will be no contract as he will not return tot he Leafs. 20 15.87%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-30-2012, 01:38 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Wha?? Hu..??

We were 29th overall in goals against last year... 25th the year before, and 29th the year before that.

Dion has a TON of WTF moments. Yes, he DOES use his size well on occasion, but he's also out of position a lot, he takes pointless penalties AWAY from the play, and he needs to fix his positioning/stick work quite a bit.
So Dion plays goal as well I see?? It seems to come down to, finding anything to point a finger at said player. You're not seeing or watching the whole picture by making that comment, he's much better defensively than you are giving him credit for.

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07-30-2012, 01:41 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Wha?? Hu..??

We were 29th overall in goals against last year... 25th the year before, and 29th the year before that.

Dion has a TON of WTF moments. Yes, he DOES use his size well on occasion, but he's also out of position a lot, he takes pointless penalties AWAY from the play, and he needs to fix his positioning/stick work quite a bit.
WTF moments by defencemen usually end up on Youtube, let's see a bunch of them.

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07-30-2012, 01:42 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Wha?? Hu..??

We were 29th overall in goals against last year... 25th the year before, and 29th the year before that.

Dion has a TON of WTF moments. Yes, he DOES use his size well on occasion, but he's also out of position a lot, he takes pointless penalties AWAY from the play, and he needs to fix his positioning/stick work quite a bit.
Right, lets get rid of Dion. Then we will be top 5!

Dion is not part of the problem, he is part of the solution. The issue is the 'solution' has not yet come to fruition. It is still a work in progress, people.

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07-30-2012, 01:43 PM
  #279
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Norris Trophy winner Chara was -30 or thereabouts the year he played for David Lewis for the Bruins.

Guess he doesn't cut it either as he was to blame for the Bruins terrible defence in 05.

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07-30-2012, 01:49 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Wha?? Hu..??

We were 29th overall in goals against last year... 25th the year before, and 29th the year before that.

Dion has a TON of WTF moments. Yes, he DOES use his size well on occasion, but he's also out of position a lot, he takes pointless penalties AWAY from the play, and he needs to fix his positioning/stick work quite a bit.
416Leafer was referring to the absurdity of MooseOak's comments. He was just making a mockery out of someone else's post so hold off on the criticism. I do not think he was implying that Phaneuf sucks or anything.

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07-30-2012, 01:51 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Norris Trophy winner Chara was -30 or thereabouts the year he played for David Lewis for the Bruins.

Guess he doesn't cut it either as he was to blame for the Bruins terrible defence in 05.
On the other hand, Phil Kessel was a defensive stalwart in Boston! Plus/ minus= useless stat

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07-30-2012, 01:53 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
416Leafer was referring to the absurdity of MooseOak's comments. He was just making a mockery out of someone else's post so hold off on the criticism. I do not think he was implying that Phaneuf sucks or anything.
Reading his posts its clear the poster was talking about the poor play of Phaneuf and how the entire fortunes of the team are in direct relation to Phaneuf. I'm quite sure no one was harsh, its difficult to be hard on someone who doesnt understand or watch hockey. "WTF" momenst speaks volumes of a posters age and maturity level.

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07-30-2012, 01:55 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
There is no captain at the Leafs, Dion included. He makes to many mistakes and is to arrogant and selfish to be a leader.

His first couple of years in the NHL when he was a force, reckless but still impressive, he did earn a big contract and got one (to big if you ask me) but since then he never lived up to the early hype he had. He still have not become a solid defensive player and defending that is something he should really be able to master now, after all, he is a defender first of all.

While a player like Weber did not explode on to the scene like Phaneuf did he have steadily improved his game every season and have since then bypassed Dion in most areas of the game.
Direct quotes from his teammates please...

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07-30-2012, 01:56 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Dion's a good #2 guy. Most contracts that give #2 guys ~5-5.5M $ were signed when the cap was ~58-65M. Assuming the cap is around ~75M in two years, I would imagine 6-6.5M is fair for him.

His current contract he was obviously overpaid, so resigning a similar deal when the cap is much higher will probably be a lot closer to a "fair" deal.
No, Dion is an excellent #2, he's a good #1.

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07-30-2012, 01:58 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
On the other hand, Phil Kessel was a defensive stalwart in Boston! Plus/ minus= useless stat
I find too many people dismissive of plus _ minus stats. I value them as many do, however one must use context when citing them, Bruins gave up a lot of goals under Lewis much like the Leafs under gun happy Wilson. That's the context and why The Chara example is a viable one, people blaming solely Dion for our defensive problems are not looking at the entire landscape here.

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07-30-2012, 01:59 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post
Too many people look to his dozen good hits a year and point totals as confirmation that he is indeed a good defenseman, with no regard for the most important aspect of playing the backend.

I couldn't care less what Watters thinks. In fact, I don't even know what he said. Phaneuf's role on this team needs to be reevaluated because he is over his head. Problem with that is we don't have anyone who is any more suitable.
Why look at numbers and facts when you can judge someone based on a totally subjective opinion?

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07-30-2012, 02:15 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Yes because having the 10th highest ATOI for defencemen in the entire NHL is not an indication of being a number 1 d? I see you slandering Phaneuf throughout this thread, and you certainlly don't like him. For the record, I thought Ron Wilson was wrong in naming him captain, but to suggest he is not a number 1 d is just hate and bias. He is number 1 d in the NHL no question about it.
I have never slandered Dion at all......I have stated the truth about him and that is not slander.....it has also been for the most part reported in the media as well.

He is not now nor will he ever be considered a number one D-man in the NHL in my opinion as well as by many experts.

Ron Wilson never made him captain.....you can believe what you want but he is Burke's boy.....Burke named him captain Ron simply was the front man.

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07-30-2012, 02:16 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Reading his posts its clear the poster was talking about the poor play of Phaneuf and how the entire fortunes of the team are in direct relation to Phaneuf. I'm quite sure no one was harsh, its difficult to be hard on someone who doesnt understand or watch hockey. "WTF" momenst speaks volumes of a posters age and maturity level.
I do not know what you mean by the last sentence. "WTF moments"is just colloquial for the failure of external stimuli corresponding with internal stimuli. In other words, what the sweet ******* was he thinking? I tend to use the term WTF to express myself because it is an acceptable social convention. What does it have to do with maturity?

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07-30-2012, 02:19 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by ALine View Post
Right, lets get rid of Dion. Then we will be top 5!

Dion is not part of the problem, he is part of the solution. The issue is the 'solution' has not yet come to fruition. It is still a work in progress, people.

When we get Rid of Dion or his attitude we will become a much better team. There will be a show down this year, with him and Carlyle!

Teams play better as teams and not as selfish individuals!

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07-30-2012, 02:20 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I have never slandered Dion at all......I have stated the truth about him and that is not slander.....it has also been for the most part reported in the media as well.

He is not now nor will he ever be considered a number one D-man in the NHL in my opinion as well as by many experts.

Ron Wilson never made him captain.....you can believe what you want but he is Burke's boy.....Burke named him captain Ron simply was the front man.
Ya , Mike Keenan's little piece is about all there is out there out there from credible sources.

BTW, your not a credible source

What experts don't see Dion as a number one guy? I would like to see some evidence of this.

About his captaincy, ok, why not just pass your opinion off as fact once again.

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07-30-2012, 02:23 PM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I have never slandered Dion at all......I have stated the truth about him and that is not slander.....it has also been for the most part reported in the media as well.

He is not now nor will he ever be considered a number one D-man in the NHL in my opinion as well as by many experts.

Ron Wilson never made him captain.....you can believe what you want but he is Burke's boy.....Burke named him captain Ron simply was the front man.
The truth as you see it. Until you come up with something tangible instead of claims that he is a terrible teammate, yours is just an opinion. Everyone has one.

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07-30-2012, 02:29 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
It's a very good IQ test, I find.
I agree ......it is a very good test!

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07-30-2012, 02:31 PM
  #293
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Depends on a number of factors, including the parameters of any new CBA, but I would imagine he would get a deal similar to the one he has now, maybe a bit less. Say 5 year/$30-32.5m. That's a number that jumps out as being pretty big, but if the cap is between $75-$80m, it's likely near market value for a player of his calibre.

That being said, where the team is cap-wise will matter as well. Phaneuf is an asset you pay to keep when he's on his game. The issue with poor cap management is very rarely having to pay through the nose to keep core guys, it's giving $4.5 to a Komisarek, and $3m to Armstrong. As much as one wants to draft and develop elite players (especially now that very few make it to FA), it's VERY important as well to be able to draft and develop depth guys. Take a guy like MacArthur for instance. Decent player, good guy to have, but when his UFA year comes up, he's absolutely the type of guy you'd rather replace internally, rather than pay UFA dollars for.

So, in sum, ensuring the cap overall is managed well in the next two years will be important as well in terms of being able to fit Phaneuf in at a reasonable number.

When Dion signed his last contract, that $6.5 cap hit a decent standard for elite defensemen in the league. Now it's higher, but Dion has fallen into a 2nd tier of d-men (not a knock, but he's not on the level of Weber, Doughty, Chara, etc), but that tier now commands something similar to what the elite defensemen got several years ago, hence the cap hit likely stays pretty similar.


Last edited by Transplanted Caper: 07-30-2012 at 02:45 PM.
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07-30-2012, 02:34 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
So Dion plays goal as well I see?? It seems to come down to, finding anything to point a finger at said player. You're not seeing or watching the whole picture by making that comment, he's much better defensively than you are giving him credit for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
416Leafer was referring to the absurdity of MooseOak's comments. He was just making a mockery out of someone else's post so hold off on the criticism. I do not think he was implying that Phaneuf sucks or anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Reading his posts its clear the poster was talking about the poor play of Phaneuf and how the entire fortunes of the team are in direct relation to Phaneuf. I'm quite sure no one was harsh, its difficult to be hard on someone who doesnt understand or watch hockey. "WTF" momenst speaks volumes of a posters age and maturity level.
I don't think Phaneuf sucks. I just get annoyed when Leaf fans say he's a stud top notch #1 franchise defenceman. He's not. I don't think he's responsible for the entire team, and if you've read my other posts, you'd see that I think he's a really good #2 defenceman which is obviously a really good thing to have on your team.

People need to relax. Apparently if you point out that a player on this team isn't a franchise player, then it obviously means you think that they're absolute crap and should have nothing to do with this team. Hockey is a 23 man roster sport, are all 23 men franchise players? No. Do essentially all players have flaws to their game? Yes. Can they still contribute in a meaningful way despite those flaws? Yes.

It's not a dichotomy, you aren't EITHER a franchise player OR crap. There's a whole gradient. Generational talent > Franchise player > 1st line / top pairing play > secondary player > 3rd/4th line guys> etc.

So all I'm saying is that while Phaneuf can be a great piece to the puzzle, he's not comparable to the franchise D that are out there.

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07-30-2012, 02:36 PM
  #295
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How do you differentiate between a "really good #2 defenceman" and a #1?

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07-30-2012, 02:42 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Wendelsmustache View Post
How do you differentiate between a "really good #2 defenceman" and a #1?
Someone who can excel in ALL situations is a #1. Not just play in them at an adequate level.

Dions offence would be considered very good to elite (though he hasn't shown "elite" offence in a few years). His defensive play however would only be considered "good" at best, maybe average -> good. He's better than guys like Green/Wideman, but he's also not up there with the best shutdown D in the league by any means.

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07-30-2012, 02:47 PM
  #297
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LOL!! Phaneuf is a top 30 defenceman in the league- which means he's a #1 d-man

not an if and only if statement

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07-30-2012, 02:50 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Someone who can excel in ALL situations is a #1. Not just play in them at an adequate level.
So not only is Erik Karlsson the youngest player to win the Norris since Bobby Orr, but he won it without even being a #1 defenseman.

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07-30-2012, 02:54 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by ALine View Post
Ya , Mike Keenan's little piece is about all there is out there out there from credible sources.

BTW, your not a credible source

What experts don't see Dion as a number one guy? I would like to see some evidence of this.

About his captaincy, ok, why not just pass your opinion off as fact once again.

I'm a creditable source.....you just do not know me.....I have never attacked another player in this forum on a personal level....it can be checked by checking my post history.

The Media has reported this as well but you and others do not consider them as creditable if they say negative things about the Leafs.....I include a direct quote from his current coach that was less than stellar when question on Dion's captaincy. Here is the quote:

On Friday, Randy Carlyle was asked what Phaneuf can learn from this disastrous season. Carlyle, who has been on the bench for just four victories in his 14 games since he replaced Wilson, offered up a short treatise on the perils of selfishness.

“You’re not going to give yourself a chance if you go out and play a team game as an individual,” Carlyle said.

Here is the link again: http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...eing-a-captain


Here read this article as well......it talks about the Aulie Dion relationship as well. http://www.fightingforstanley.ca/tor...-on-an-island/

Aulie got traded for the same reason Schenn did.....our captain.

What are we looking for on defense beside a number one d -man.....toughness....and we trade Aulie. Remember this:


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07-30-2012, 02:59 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I have never slandered Dion at all......I have stated the truth about him and that is not slander.....it has also been for the most part reported in the media as well.

He is not now nor will he ever be considered a number one D-man in the NHL in my opinion as well as by many experts.

Ron Wilson never made him captain.....you can believe what you want but he is Burke's boy.....Burke named him captain Ron simply was the front man.
You are consistently inaccurate with several of your posts, and this is an example. Burke never made Dion captain, Ron Wilson did and it is the coaches decision on those matters; straight from Burkes mouth. Burke actually spoke of seeing Schenn as a captain several years down the road before Dion was aquired. You're wrong about this and several other things as you normally are. I asked you, how is it Dion plays the most minutes on the Leafs blueline, the pk, pp, against the other teams best players every night, is top 12 scoring for d in the NHL and 10 overall in the entire NHL for D for TOI and he is not a number one d??? Not suprisingly you had no response. Cant wait till school gets back in session.

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