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Old
07-29-2012, 03:23 PM
  #26
Sabresfansince1980
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Yeah right...

This is of course probably not even a serious trade consideration, but just in case the base is Ryan for Stafford +...

Ryan has averaged about 32 goals a season, Stafford 20. Ryan has an additional edge in age, size, physicality, but not defensive play. Ryan has the extra 1.1 mil cap hit for the added production, but is an extra 12 goals...maybe 15 worth all the extra picks and prospects? A few assets, yes, but not a blank check. Maybe that's what Anahiem needs for it to make sense for them, but I prefer that Regier make trades that make sense for Buffalo regardless of the other team.

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07-29-2012, 03:26 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Nah, I got this...
To Buffalo: Bobby Ryan
To Anaheim: Entire Sabres roster, all signed prospects, Terry Pegula's daughter, and $40m
This makes more sense than half the other proposals in this thread.

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07-29-2012, 03:27 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Im starting to like a trade of Vanek, Adam, and Sekera going and Bobby Ryan and Koivu coming to Buffalo.
Except, the Ducks won't take on salary and need C depth. Other than that it's perfect!!!

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07-29-2012, 03:29 PM
  #29
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The Sabres need a player like Ryan, but without giving up either Ennis or Hodgson I don't see it happening.

However adding Ryan does solve a lot of issues with our Top 6...if and only if you are willling to tolerate Grigs or Gargs being with the big club to start the year.

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07-29-2012, 03:30 PM
  #30
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Bobby Ryan = Wayne Gretzky reincarnate

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Old
07-29-2012, 03:32 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Given that some New England media were saying the Ducks wanted Krejci and one of Lucic/Hamilton, I don't think that poopoo platter comes anywhere close to getting it done.
this is now my default response to all hf boards trade proposers

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07-29-2012, 03:49 PM
  #32
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If Buffalo had a 2C on a cheap contract to spare, then Regier could offer more than a poopoo platter that would make sense on both sides. In lieu of that 2C, I don't think Regier should be offering up everything under the sun in a vain attempt to make up for what Anaheim really wants.

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07-29-2012, 03:53 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Yeah right...

This is of course probably not even a serious trade consideration, but just in case the base is Ryan for Stafford +...

Ryan has averaged about 32 goals a season, Stafford 20. Ryan has an additional edge in age, size, physicality, but not defensive play. Ryan has the extra 1.1 mil cap hit for the added production, but is an extra 12 goals...maybe 15 worth all the extra picks and prospects? A few assets, yes, but not a blank check. Maybe that's what Anahiem needs for it to make sense for them, but I prefer that Regier make trades that make sense for Buffalo regardless of the other team.
Bolded - what makes you say this? Feel like you just tossed that in there to try and support your point. I would've said Ryan was a better defensive player from briefly watching Ducks games, and advanced metrics seem to agree with that.

He averages 35 goals/82 to Stafford's 23, and he's also way more consistent with tons of growing left to do. Ryan had what was considered the worst year of his career this past season and still had as many goals and five more points than Stafford's career best season (in fairness - Stafford obviously missed a chunk of games that year, but most still consider that season pretty flukey). The idea that Stafford is anywhere near Ryan is insane, and he's absolutely worth the assets.

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07-29-2012, 04:02 PM
  #34
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I said that because he's an average defensive player just like Stafford, so there's no advantage there. The rest of what you said sounds just like what you're saying to me - stuff thrown in to make your point.

I said Ryan for Stafford + is fair, but not for Stafford +++. I'll leave it at that.

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07-29-2012, 04:05 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Don't forget Myers, Miller, and Marcus Foligno's first born son.
I thought my proposal was fair?

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07-29-2012, 04:15 PM
  #36
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I'm not about to claim that Stafford is that close to Ryan. In fairness I was wrong about the size factor though...Stafford is actually the same size or maybe heavier (he just doesn't play as physically). Anyway, Stafford has played a ton games next to a TO machine in Roy. I can't think of a capable C he's played next to lately (since Roy's injury) until Ennis the last two months. I don't see Ryan becoming a 40 goal player, but I do see Stafford reaching 25-30. I know there's a definite difference between the two, but not a difference that should amount to a 1st, 3rd, Adam, Sekera, Brennan, and maybe another prospect.


Last edited by Sabresfansince1980: 07-29-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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Old
07-29-2012, 04:19 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Sean McG View Post

He averages 35 goals/82 to Stafford's 23

Not true.Ryan averages exactly 10 more goals a season then Ryan (33.6/82gp vs 23.5/82gp).That's pretty big, but let's not overrate Ryan too much.Both are big and can throw the body, Stafford makes 1.1 million less a year.

The difference between Ryan and Stafford is NOT Armia+1st+Sekera+Stafford type deals, not at all.I'd give them Pysyk and a 1st along with Stafford, which is more then fair.I'd even add Gerbe, who is a good young top 9 winger.

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07-29-2012, 04:31 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Not true.Ryan averages exactly 10 more goals a season then Ryan (33.6/82gp vs 23.5/82gp).That's pretty big, but let's not overrate Ryan too much.Both are big and can throw the body, Stafford makes 1.1 million less a year.

The difference between Ryan and Stafford is NOT Armia+1st+Sekera+Stafford type deals, not at all.I'd give them Pysyk and a 1st along with Stafford, which is more then fair.I'd even add Gerbe, who is a good young top 9 winger.
i bet if stafford and ryan were reversed... you wouldnt have the same opinion.

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07-29-2012, 04:36 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Not true.Ryan averages exactly 10 more goals a season then Ryan (33.6/82gp vs 23.5/82gp).That's pretty big, but let's not overrate Ryan too much.Both are big and can throw the body, Stafford makes 1.1 million less a year.

The difference between Ryan and Stafford is NOT Armia+1st+Sekera+Stafford type deals, not at all.I'd give them Pysyk and a 1st along with Stafford, which is more then fair.I'd even add Gerbe, who is a good young top 9 winger.
Ryan also has 8 goals in 19 playoff games, Stafford 3 in 20.

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07-29-2012, 04:47 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Sean McG View Post
Bolded - what makes you say this? Feel like you just tossed that in there to try and support your point. I would've said Ryan was a better defensive player from briefly watching Ducks games, and advanced metrics seem to agree with that.

He averages 35 goals/82 to Stafford's 23, and he's also way more consistent with tons of growing left to do. Ryan had what was considered the worst year of his career this past season and still had as many goals and five more points than Stafford's career best season (in fairness - Stafford obviously missed a chunk of games that year, but most still consider that season pretty flukey). The idea that Stafford is anywhere near Ryan is insane, and he's absolutely worth the assets.
That's not really true. Maybe a bit defensively, but forwards tend to have their peak production years in their early to mid twenties. Plus Ryan's been consistent and not growing for the past several seasons. Just because he's under 25 doesn't mean there's still untapped potential there.
I like Ryan as much as the next guy, but that myth just needs to die.

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07-29-2012, 04:52 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
I'm not about to claim that Stafford is that close to Ryan. In fairness I was wrong about the size factor though...Stafford is actually the same size or maybe heavier (he just doesn't play as physically). Anyway, Stafford has played a ton games next to a TO machine in Roy. I can't think of a capable C he's played next to lately (since Roy's injury) until Ennis the last two months. I don't see Ryan becoming a 40 goal player, but I do see Stafford reaching 25-30. I know there's a definite difference between the two, but not a difference that should amount to a 1st, 3rd, Adam, Sekera, Brennan, and maybe another prospect.
This I agree with. If we could afford to offer what the Ducks actually want for Ryan, I'd love to get him, but in the absence of that, let's not pretend that the difference between him and Stafford is a 1st, a top prospect, and another roster player.

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07-29-2012, 04:57 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15
Given that some New England media were saying the Ducks wanted Krejci and one of Lucic/Hamilton, I don't think that poopoo platter comes anywhere close to getting it done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
this is now my default response to all hf boards trade proposers
Agree with that for sure.

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07-29-2012, 04:58 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
That's not really true. Maybe a bit defensively, but forwards tend to have their peak production years in their early to mid twenties. Plus Ryan's been consistent and not growing for the past several seasons. Just because he's under 25 doesn't mean there's still untapped potential there.
I like Ryan as much as the next guy, but that myth just needs to die.
so stafford is done developing?

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07-29-2012, 04:59 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
I thought my proposal was fair?
lol


Bobby Ryan is a great player don't get me wrong, but i doubt Anahemin is too inpressed with our center depth, which is what they're asking for in return is it not?

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07-29-2012, 04:59 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
That's not really true. Maybe a bit defensively, but forwards tend to have their peak production years in their early to mid twenties. Plus Ryan's been consistent and not growing for the past several seasons. Just because he's under 25 doesn't mean there's still untapped potential there.
I like Ryan as much as the next guy, but that myth just needs to die.
What myth? That Ryan could still get better? ... What a stretch ..... just not happening.

It's not a myth..Ryan has the potential to get A LOT better.

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Old
07-29-2012, 05:09 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Nah, I got this...
To Buffalo: Bobby Ryan
To Anaheim: Entire Sabres roster, all signed prospects, Terry Pegula's daughter, and $40m
Whoa whoa whoa whoa.

I don't want to give up more than $37.3M. Max.

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07-29-2012, 05:14 PM
  #47
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Stafford, Sekera, Hodgson would be the listening point. I'm over it, at this point.

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07-29-2012, 05:18 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Stafford, Sekera, Hodgson would be the listening point. I'm over it, at this point.
I'd do it.....tho' I'd try and replace Sekera with a different piece ...

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07-29-2012, 05:18 PM
  #49
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Stafford, Sekera, Hodgson would be the listening point. I'm over it, at this point.
Sekera AND Hodgson to upgrade from Stafford to Ryan?

I wouldn't do that. Classic case of robbing Peter to pay Paul...plus Stafford already is in a position IMO to overachieve given his chemistry with Ennis--I think he has more value to the Sabres than to other teams as a result, where he could do better here than elsewhere.

Then we become weaker again in the center spot and on top of that give up our best shutdown defender. Maybe Anaheim would think it's fair, but I think that package has more value to the Sabres than to the Ducks...and trades happen when the opposite is the case.

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Old
07-29-2012, 05:39 PM
  #50
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so stafford is done developing?
Yes, I think so. I'm sure there will be fluctuations in his production depending on who he's playing with, how lucky he gets, and how much ice time he gets, but I'd say his game is his game. Again, defense can take longer -- there could be more room for growth there, but mostly he is the player he is.

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