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Old
07-30-2012, 10:47 PM
  #201
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Ryan's going to be a perennial 70 goal scorer by 35 at this rate

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07-30-2012, 10:49 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Ryan's going to be a perennial 70 goal scorer by 35 at this rate
at that rate rebate

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07-30-2012, 11:00 PM
  #203
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To Pho: Adam, Gerbe, Sundher
To Ana: Hanzal, Sekera, Pho 3rd
To Buf: Ryan

Hanzal is always the solution.

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07-30-2012, 11:19 PM
  #204
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Vanek's goal total's his first four full seasons were 25, 43, 36, 40. He was 25 or under in all of those seasons.

Ryan's goal total's his first four full seasons were 31, 35, 34, 31.

Vanek had more goals over his first four years. Vanek was arguably the best offensive player on his team for two of those years. Ryan has always had Getzlaf, Perry, and Selanne to help take the focus of opposing d-men.

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07-31-2012, 12:05 AM
  #205
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Ryan plays on Ana awful PP2 because they bring Selanne in to play with Getzlaf an Perry. Any stitistical differences balances out. He faces worse competition but plays in less favorable situations when the scoring opportunities are most plentiful.

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07-31-2012, 06:21 AM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
To Pho: Adam, Gerbe, Sundher
To Ana: Hanzal, Sekera, Pho 3rd
To Buf: Ryan

Hanzal is always the solution.
I'm not reading anymore of this thread after this. I'll check back and see where he gets traded and for who but hi most definately going to happen though.
Especially after we sign Doan

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07-31-2012, 08:02 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
One big difference though: while Ryan complained in one interview about the lack of respect he felt, he hasn't formally requested a trade formally like Nash did at the deadline. Right now, Murray can afford to sit back and play hard-to-get with other teams by asking whatever he wants. As soon as Ryan demands a trade, threatens a hold-out or does something that spells danger for locker room chemistry, Murray will suddenly lose a lot of leverage and every team in the league will know to wait him out til his asking price lowers out of pressure.
Ryan's repeatedly stated on Twitter that his preference is to remain a Duck. But the even bigger difference between Ryan and Nash is that, should Murray decide to move Ryan, Anaheim would have 20+ suitors with which to deal. In contrast, Howson had six suitors with which to deal. The situations aren't really similar at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelForbin View Post
Vanek's goal total's his first four full seasons were 25, 43, 36, 40. He was 25 or under in all of those seasons.

Ryan's goal total's his first four full seasons were 31, 35, 34, 31.

Vanek had more goals over his first four years. Vanek was arguably the best offensive player on his team for two of those years. Ryan has always had Getzlaf, Perry, and Selanne to help take the focus of opposing d-men.
And Vanek got to hide behind the Briere and Drury lines for his first two seasons. Also, Vanek got the benefit of playing in the two post-lockout offensive boom years, whereas Ryan didn't see the NHL until late in the 2007-08 season when clutch-and-grab hockey was creeping back into the game.

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07-31-2012, 08:07 AM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelForbin View Post
Vanek's goal total's his first four full seasons were 25, 43, 36, 40. He was 25 or under in all of those seasons.

Ryan's goal total's his first four full seasons were 31, 35, 34, 31.

Vanek had more goals over his first four years. Vanek was arguably the best offensive player on his team for two of those years. Ryan has always had Getzlaf, Perry, and Selanne to help take the focus of opposing d-men.
If we are going to continue to use the "Getzlaf" excuse in regards to Ryan's performance... Then I suggest we do the same for Vanek's numbers...

those first 2 seasons : Vanek had the benefit of playing on essentially a 3rd line (not seeing top checkers/defenders)

I'd also point out that scoring and PPs were up in those first few years of Vanek's career. A benefit that Ryan did not enjoy.

FYI
Ryan played with Getzlaf at ES :
08-09 : 45.3% (Perry w/ Getzlaf 89.3%)
09-10 : 44.5% (Perry w/ Getzlaf 74.1%)
10-11 : 64.7% (Perry w/ Getzlaf 76.8%)
11-12 : 50.8% (Perry w/ Getzlaf 91.8%)

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07-31-2012, 09:20 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Was Hodgson an easy fix? I feel like we waited 5 years for that deal. I feel like top 6 centers are probably the hardest players to acquire through trade. And while Buffalo's problem has been more finishers than playmakers, it's been more centermen than either of those two.
Maybe you as a fan waited 5 years, but organizationally, I feel the team thought they had what they needed in Connolly and Roy up until the point they let Connolly walk. In that regard, I think it really only took 3/4 of a season to get a replacement for Connolly in Hodsgon. What it looks like now is we have a younger, cheaper replacement for both of them (Roy/Connolly) in Hodgson and Ennis. But not necessarily an upgrade in the sense that I don't think either of them are the 1C that we've wanted since Briere left.

I just don't think Hodgson is that answer. If that's what the 5 year wait has been for, then I'm not that impressed. I could be wrong and he could be slow to develop, but from what I've seen (I'll admit, in a very limited sample size), I don't think he's going to project as that level of player. I think he'll be a fine 2C, but that top line level of player really falls on Grigerenko. If he meets his potential and turns into 'Spezza', we'll be okay. If not, we'll have to continue looking for that 1C anyway, while then having a deep 2C pool of Ennis, Hodgson, and at that point, Grigerenko.

If the Grigs as-a-1C plan fails, at least having Ryan on the roster at that time would give you the possibility of moving Ennis/Grigs and Ryan for a bonafide 1C while still having a potential sniper like Armia on the wing and still a 2C with whomever is left. Don't get me wrong, I'd hate to move Ryan myself after I'm arguing so much why we should have him, but not only would he be our best forward compared to what we have now, he would also be our biggest tradeable asset and I'm still willing to do whatever it takes to get us a Cup. Without him as an asset, we're probably back to Darcy trying to find someone willing to trade legitimate 1C talent for a collection of second line type players, unless we're willing to throw Armia or McNabb into the mix, assuming they don't bust out, or Miller, assuming he's still here and dependent on whatever might become a different option in net.


Last edited by zbubble: 07-31-2012 at 09:39 AM.
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Old
07-31-2012, 11:25 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
If we are going to continue to use the "Getzlaf" excuse in regards to Ryan's performance... Then I suggest we do the same for Vanek's numbers...

those first 2 seasons : Vanek had the benefit of playing on essentially a 3rd line (not seeing top checkers/defenders)

I'd also point out that scoring and PPs were up in those first few years of Vanek's career. A benefit that Ryan did not enjoy.

FYI
Ryan played with Getzlaf at ES :
08-09 : 45.3% (Perry w/ Getzlaf 89.3%)
09-10 : 44.5% (Perry w/ Getzlaf 74.1%)
10-11 : 64.7% (Perry w/ Getzlaf 76.8%)
11-12 : 50.8% (Perry w/ Getzlaf 91.8%)
I specifically mentioned in my post Vanek was only the centerpiece of the offense for two of those four years. I understand the Briere and Drury lines were a big factor during his first two years. Yet his goal production didn't decrease at all the two years after they left.


Last edited by ColonelForbin: 07-31-2012 at 02:35 PM.
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07-31-2012, 12:17 PM
  #211
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For reference, some GPG numbers since the lockout.

05-06: 6.17
06-07: 5.89
07-08: 5.57
08-09: 5.83

During Ryan and Vanek's respective best statistical years, the GPG difference was .06.

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07-31-2012, 12:28 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
For reference, some GPG numbers since the lockout.

05-06: 6.17
06-07: 5.89
07-08: 5.57
08-09: 5.83

During Ryan and Vanek's respective best statistical years, the GPG difference was .06.
^ doesn't get it

Number of 25 goal scorers
05-06: 80
06-07: 76
07-08: 63
08-09: 69
09-10: 58
10-11: 53
11-12: 59

Number of 30 goal scorers
05-06: 47
06-07: 42
07-08: 28
08-09: 39
09-10: 24
10-11: 29
11-12: 30


Ryan is part of a much smaller group of players...

Goals per Game per Season is completely irrelevant.

stick to sarcasm... making good arguments isn't your strong suit


Last edited by Jame: 07-31-2012 at 12:38 PM.
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07-31-2012, 12:42 PM
  #213
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Ryan is better then Vanek... it's not even close

goal scoring
11-12
Ryan top 24
Vanek top 52

10-11
Ryan top 11
Vanek top 16

09-10
Ryan top 11
Vanek top 36


Last edited by Jame: 07-31-2012 at 12:50 PM.
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Old
07-31-2012, 01:18 PM
  #214
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Why is this still a debate? I think every gets -- or should -- that Ryan would be an upgrade over either of Stafford or Vanek in many ways. The question isn't whether or not he's better; it's whether or not he's better enough that it's worth us blowing a load of assets, including from a position we're already weak at (center). IMO, that answer is no.

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07-31-2012, 01:25 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Why is this still a debate? I think every gets -- or should -- that Ryan would be an upgrade over either of Stafford or Vanek in many ways. The question isn't whether or not he's better; it's whether or not he's better enough that it's worth us blowing a load of assets, including from a position we're already weak at (center). IMO, that answer is no.
you are absolutely right

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07-31-2012, 01:30 PM
  #216
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Have we traded for him yet?

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07-31-2012, 01:34 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Why is this still a debate? I think every gets -- or should -- that Ryan would be an upgrade over either of Stafford or Vanek in many ways. The question isn't whether or not he's better; it's whether or not he's better enough that it's worth us blowing a load of assets, including from a position we're already weak at (center). IMO, that answer is no.
I agree. I think Regier should be patient and see if Anaheim backs off their demand for a young center in return. But there's no question, at least there shouldn't be, that Ryan is better than Vanek and Stafford.

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07-31-2012, 01:35 PM
  #218
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Have we traded for him yet?
Twice.

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07-31-2012, 01:37 PM
  #219
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Have we traded for him yet?
Yes. Two minutes ago. Pegula got involved and traded the rights to all future Foligno children, a lock of Tyler Ennis' hair, Black River Music, and the Buffalo Bandits for Ryan.


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07-31-2012, 01:37 PM
  #220
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Twice.
Awesome

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07-31-2012, 09:42 PM
  #221
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Vanek's a much better 40 goal man if you ask me. I just don't trust Ryan's ability to be in that club, thouh his own is nice enough. Perhaps a friendly golf tourney between organizations...

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07-31-2012, 09:55 PM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Vanek's a much better 40 goal man if you ask me. I just don't trust Ryan's ability to be in that club, thouh his own is nice enough. Perhaps a friendly golf tourney between organizations...
funny, since over the last 3 years, Ryan is much closer to that club...

:

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07-31-2012, 09:59 PM
  #223
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Over the past three seasons Vanek's been the superior offensive talent, but you don't see me :jj:ing about it.

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07-31-2012, 10:01 PM
  #224
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funny, since over the last 3 years, Ryan is much closer to that club...

:
That, and $2.00 will buy Ryan a cup of coffee.

Some places you're pointing out Ryan's last 4 years, others you're citing his last 3. Why the moving target?

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07-31-2012, 10:04 PM
  #225
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Quote:
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Over the past three seasons Vanek's been the superior offensive talent, but you don't see me :jj:ing about it.
because it's not true

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