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Old
07-30-2012, 03:43 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
What I'm saying is if the Panthers want to continue to go in the right direction they will take a gamble with their prospect pool & try to obtain a proven player.

No where did I say a specific price.


Also Hey Dave Tallon, when did you decide to john HF?
Who's Dave Tallon?

Trade deadline, he had opportunities to pick up solid players for prospects, according to him and santos, they didn't. He's preached since he's started this that he'll be patient and won't ransom pieces he feels are important. You don't have to sell the team to stay competitive. No one wants the Atlanta mistakes, he didn't do that in Chicago, odds are he won't here.

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07-30-2012, 03:49 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Neither is Dave Tallon the Panthers GM.

Trade deadline, he had opportunities to pick up solid players for prospects, according to him and santos, they didn't. He's preached since he's started this that he'll be patient and won't ransom pieces he feels are important. You don't have to sell the team to stay competitive. No one wants the Atlanta mistakes, he didn't do that in Chicago, odds are he won't here.
He isn't?

I sort of remember hearing that the Panther Owners wanted Luongo so they would have that big name to sell tickets. Maybe thats why there is such a long hold up? Owners want Luongo at all costs, Tallon doesn't want to give up too much & Gillis wants to get the most he can.

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07-30-2012, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
He isn't?

I sort of remember hearing that the Panther Owners wanted Luongo so they would have that big name to sell tickets. Maybe thats why there is such a long hold up? Owners want Luongo at all costs, Tallon doesn't want to give up too much & Gillis wants to get the most he can.
No, DaVe Tallon is not.

They ok'd the trade, nothing about wanting him. Winnig the Division, making the playoffs, going to game 7, and a competitive team will sell tickets, Louie would help, but isn't that big a draw. He didn't leave on great terms. Tallon won't sell the future, again, we're not the next Atlanta.

Yes, Gillis likely wants more and Tallon wants to give less. How most trades work.

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07-30-2012, 03:56 PM
  #79
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He isn't?
He never was.

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07-30-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Who's Dave Tallon?Trade deadline, he had opportunities to pick up solid players for prospects, according to him and santos, they didn't. He's preached since he's started this that he'll be patient and won't ransom pieces he feels are important. You don't have to sell the team to stay competitive. No one wants the Atlanta mistakes, he didn't do that in Chicago, odds are he won't here.
Sounds a lot like the brother of the guy we got after losing the draft lottery to Buffalo. Who managed to pick up some hack called Gilbert Perrault.

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07-30-2012, 04:02 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
No, DaVe Tallon is not.

They ok'd the trade, nothing about wanting him. Winnig the Division, making the playoffs, going to game 7, and a competitive team will sell tickets, Louie would help, but isn't that big a draw. He didn't leave on great terms. Tallon won't sell the future, again, we're not the next Atlanta.

Yes, Gillis likely wants more and Tallon wants to give less. How most trades work.


ahhhhh HF where people will make a deal when you say the wrong name instead of just moving on.....


All the things you've listed help the Panthers as a franchise to bring players in but on the owner's side it makes them a lot more money!

He didn't leave on great terms.... That was with a completely different management group. I'm guessing that the majority of the bad terms had to do with Keenan. A guy who never had a great relationship with a goalie.

The difference is Atlanta sold their futures for older players that weren't good. This isn't a Coburn for Alexei Zhitnik type deal.

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07-30-2012, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post


ahhhhh HF where people will make a deal when you say the wrong name instead of just moving on.....


All the things you've listed help the Panthers as a franchise to bring players in but on the owner's side it makes them a lot more money!

He didn't leave on great terms.... That was with a completely different management group. I'm guessing that the majority of the bad terms had to do with Keenan. A guy who never had a great relationship with a goalie.

The difference is Atlanta sold their futures for older players that weren't good. This isn't a Coburn for Alexei Zhitnik type deal.
You've been here two months and you know the HF in and outs? And I likely wouldn't have, but you wrote the smarmy comment above, so...you got it back. You called out a knowledgeable poster who actually has put two and two together based on Tallon's words and his actions.

Luongo being here would likely help, him not being here isn't the end all. And my comment had nothing to do with management, since we were addressing the fans. Plenty of us were put off. Again, If he comes back, several wouldn't be happy, plenty would. Not as big an impact as you're implying.

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07-30-2012, 04:16 PM
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I watched college games and Bjugstad along with Nelson stood out the most to me. He has so much upside.

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07-30-2012, 04:20 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
You've been here two months and you know the HF in and outs? And I likely wouldn't have, but you wrote the smarmy comment above, so...you got it back. You called out a knowledgeable poster who actually has put two and two together based on Tallon's words and his actions.

Luongo being here would likely help, him not being here isn't the end all. And my comment had nothing to do with management, since we were addressing the fans. Plenty of us were put off. Again, If he comes back, several wouldn't be happy, plenty would. Not as big an impact as you're implying.
Its called being a guest on this site from afar.

There is a difference in someone acting high and mighty like they are the GM of their team and messing up someone else's GM's first name.


I'm not saying him not there is the end all or that you HAVE TO do it but I'm saying if you want your team to go in the right direction having proven players over prospects is always the best route. Who knows what happens along the development path. Doesn't Markstrom have bad knees? That isn't something you want as a young goalie. What if he injures them again? I personally would prefer having a very good proven starter & worry about the prospect coming out & out playing the proven player then take the gamble in the hope that the goalie prospect can match that starters high level of play..... but thats just me.

Players leave on bad situations sometimes, the fact that he wants to come back should say something... don't you think? In reality he never wanted to leave he just wanted a little more money out of the team. Could you blame the guy with how the team was doing?

I think you're downplaying the impact he could make financially for a team that isn't really a very rich team to begin with.

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07-30-2012, 04:22 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
What I'm saying is if the Panthers want to continue to go in the right direction they will take a gamble with their prospect pool & try to obtain a proven player.

No where did I say a specific price.

Also Hey Dale Tallon, when did you decide to join HF?
I dont have to be Dale Tallon to show that the Panthers are not going to trade away their top prospects for quick fixes. Tallon has proven that now, and in his past. The time is not right for Tallon to make that all-in type of move, as most of our top tiered prospects wont be up until next season. Would a move for Luongo help the Panthers, probably, but would a move for Luongo push the Panthers over the top, into title contention, probably not. Considering that, I dont have to be Dale Tallon to know which is the obvious choice. The Panthers will stay the course, unless a deal is available that Tallon could not say no to. The Panthers are fine in goal, both now and in the future. They are fine on defense, both now and in the future. What they need to do is stay patient with their forwards, and work them in over the next two years, especially when you have legit top six prospects like Bjugstad, Howden, Huberdeau. Again, the only way I see Tallon making some type of move, involving one of our top end forward prospects, is if he gets back a player like Bobby Ryan.


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07-30-2012, 04:27 PM
  #86
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Bjugstad is a center which heretofore as been the weakest position the Panthers have had in Franchise history. Our internal value of Bjugstad is much higher than any team is willing to give up for him.

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07-30-2012, 04:28 PM
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Bit of a contradiction here, no?

And yes, Shvidki was as highly regarded as any of the Panthers current prospects. Again, the point is these guys don't all reach their full potential, and in most cases when a trade actually goes down, prospects are not traded for packages, but traded within them, and there is a reason for that. They're question marks and simply don't hold as much value on their own as NHL regulars. Despite the opinion of HF. And I say all of this as someone that is very high on Bjugstad. Anyway, I've made my point.
Huh?

As a lifelong Panthers fan:

I've never compared him to P.Bure,or called him the "franchise" like Markstrom.

I get the part of Frolik and Olesz being overhyped once upon a time, but non Panthers fans are embellishing a bit here on our former prospects. I BELIEVE a lot of non Panthers fans in my native country are/will be jealous of a southern market like the Panthers having all these gems (Guds,Huberdeau,Bjugs,Kulikov,Markstrom,Petrovic, Howden etc...) It's very unlikely that these players do not live up to the hype at this point outside of injuries/being traded to another market for top six forward help which the Panthers need badly.

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07-30-2012, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Its called being a guest on this site from afar.

There is a difference in someone acting high and mighty like they are the GM of their team and messing up someone else's GM's first name.


I'm not saying him not there is the end all or that you HAVE TO do it but I'm saying if you want your team to go in the right direction having proven players over prospects is always the best route. Who knows what happens along the development path. Doesn't Markstrom have bad knees? That isn't something you want as a young goalie. What if he injures them again? I personally would prefer having a very good proven starter & worry about the prospect coming out & out playing the proven player then take the gamble in the hope that the goalie prospect can match that starters high level of play..... but thats just me.

Players leave on bad situations sometimes, the fact that he wants to come back should say something... don't you think? In reality he never wanted to leave he just wanted a little more money out of the team. Could you blame the guy with how the team was doing?

I think you're downplaying the impact he could make financially for a team that isn't really a very rich team to begin with.
He wasn't acting high and mighty, he's going by Tallon's actions the past couple years here and what he did in Chicago. FA's were brought in. He's concerned about down the road, he's not going to veer from it from it based on what we've seen.

An I don't think you low the team like you think you do. Wasn't about money, was about Lou supposedly not wanting to be traded. A deal was in place, they went back and increased their demands. With such things as a goalie coach who was locked up. None of it made sense. Fans weren't happy with Louie or Keenan. You have no idea how people view him here, stop pretending that you do. Friends and family, they're going back because of last year, because the team is being built properly, they're getting tickets whether Luongo is back or not.

Yes, it may help, isn't gonna hurt things terribly if he's not here.

So far as Markstrom's knees, he's had surgery twice. He's not finished. If Tallon can bring in Luongo for as little possible he will. Markstrom doesn't have to be a part of any deal. He's valuesd here.


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07-30-2012, 04:33 PM
  #89
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I dont have to be Dale Tallon to show that the Panthers are not going to trade away their top prospects for quick fixes. Tallon has proven that now, and in his past. The time is not right for Tallon to make that all-in type of move, as most of our top tiered prospects wont be up until next season. Would a move for Luongo help the Panthers, probably, but would a move for Luongo push the Panthers over the top, into title contention, probably not. Considering that, I dont have to be Dale Tallon to know which is the obvious choice. The Panthers will stay the course, unless a deal is available that Tallon could not say no to. The Panthers are fine in goal, both now and in the future. They are fine on defense, both now and in the future. What they need to do is stay patient with their forwards, and work them in over the next two years, especially when you have legit top six prospects like Bjugstad, Howden, Huberdeau. Again, the only way I see Tallon making some type of move, involving one of our top end forward prospects, is if he gets back a player like Bobby Ryan.
Just so I know: How is Luongo (long term contract) considered a quick fix?

You guys are fine in goal? Theodore is a good stop gap (if he can be consistent like last year) but what about Markstrom? Does he not have bad knees? I've heard he has had a few surgeries on them. Knee problems at such an early age is not a good sign for a goalie who is suppose to be a long term solution.

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07-30-2012, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
He wasn't acting high and mighty, ea going by Tallon's actions the past couple years here and what he did in Chicago. FA's were brought in. He's concerned about down the road, he's not going to veer from it from it based on what we've seen.

An I don't think you low the team like you think you do. Wasn't about money, was about Lou supposedly not wanting to be traded. A deal was in place, try went back and increase their demands. With such things as a goalie coach who was locked up. None of it made sense. Fans weren't happy with Louie or Keenan. You have no idea how people view him here, stop pretending that you do. Friends and family, they're going back because of last year, because the team is being build properly, they're getting tickets whether Luongo is back or not.

Yes, it may help, isn't gonna hurt things terribly if he's not here.
So he wanted a NTC & a goalie coach that was signed? That doesn't make sense? Is that not something you give to your Franchise goalie to keep him there? Especially when your team isn't very good at attracting talent through free agency.

Where am I acting like I know how people in your fan base view him?

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07-30-2012, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Just so I know: How is Luongo (long term contract) considered a quick fix?
Gee, thanks, I didnt know Luongo was signed for another nine years. Must have missed those huge threads on the trade rumors forum, or the long discussions that went on in the Panthers forum Why would Tallon give up any of his top prospects for Luongo, considering his age, and the $5+ million cap hit he has over those next nine years? If...IF, Luongo were to be dealt to the Panthers, expect salary to go back, and dont expect any big name prospects to go to Vancouver. Gillis is not in the driver seat on this one, whoever lands Luongo will be.

Quote:
You guys are fine in goal? Theodore is a good stop gap (if he can be consistent like last year) but what about Markstrom? Does he not have bad knees? I've heard he has had a few surgeries on them. Knee problems at such an early age is not a good sign for a goalie who is suppose to be a long term solution.
Yes, we are fine in goal. Theodore is a stop gap, but he is a good one, and until Markstrom is ready to take over, I have no problem with Jose at all. And yes, Markstrom did have surgery on his knee, but its not the end of the world. A lot of players have reoccurring injuries, yet are able to deal with them, like Luongo for example, with his groin. Again, this team is fine in net and on the blueline, what they need is help up front, which makes a deal for Luongo useless. With the right deal for a top six forward, this team would go further than the original set of forwards and defense, with Luongo, minus what it would cost us to get him.

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07-30-2012, 04:49 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
So he wanted a NTC & a goalie coach that was signed? That doesn't make sense? Is that not something you give to your Franchise goalie to keep him there? Especially when your team isn't very good at attracting talent through free agency.

Where am I acting like I know how people in your fan base view him?
He agreed to a deal, then his agent demanded more money, a NTC, and that his former goaltending coach, who was with a different team at the time, be hired. You dont go and make additional demands after a deal is agreed upon, regardless of who you are.

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07-30-2012, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
So he wanted a NTC & a goalie coach that was signed? That doesn't make sense? Is that not something you give to your Franchise goalie to keep him there? Especially when your team isn't very good at attracting talent through free agency.

Where am I acting like I know how people in your fan base view him?
Goalie was signed until past the FA deadline, basically demanded he be signed before Louie would. Go back and look it up. He decided he wanted out and tried to save face, again, fans weren't happy with either.

Saying I'm underestimating his ability to sell tickets, etc is basically saying you know the fan landscape?Seemed like it to me, sorry.

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07-30-2012, 04:58 PM
  #94
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Gee, thanks, I didnt know Luongo was signed for another nine years. Must have missed those huge threads on the trade rumors forum, or the long discussions that went on in the Panthers forum Why would Tallon give up any of his top prospects for Luongo, considering his age, and the $5+ million cap hit he has over those next nine years? If...IF, Luongo were to be dealt to the Panthers, expect salary to go back, and dont expect any big name prospects to go to Vancouver. Gillis is not in the driver seat on this one, whoever lands Luongo will be.



Yes, we are fine in goal. Theodore is a stop gap, but he is a good one, and until Markstrom is ready to take over, I have no problem with Jose at all. And yes, Markstrom did have surgery on his knee, but its not the end of the world. A lot of players have reoccurring injuries, yet are able to deal with them, like Luongo for example, with his groin. Again, this team is fine in net and on the blueline, what they need is help up front, which makes a deal for Luongo useless. With the right deal for a top six forward, this team would go further than the original set of forwards and defense, with Luongo, minus what it would cost us to get him.
Jeeeeeeeez Still didn't answer how he is a quick fix like you stated though.....

Because if you are trading for Luongo you are not getting him for nothing. IF your team does trade for Luongo there will be salary coming back to Van but expect a big named prospect coming back. I think Luongo is in the drivers seat really. No GM.

Knee Surgery is not the end of the world but you do have to agree its troubling that a goalie prospect is already getting work done on his knees. You would have to also agree that the knees are HUGE for a goalie.

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He agreed to a deal, then his agent demanded more money, a NTC, and that his former goaltending coach, who was with a different team at the time, be hired. You dont go and make additional demands after a deal is agreed upon, regardless of who you are.
Agreed to the deal isn't the same as signed the deal. As long as he hasn't signed he can still barter for different things.


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Goalie was signed until past the FA deadline, basically demanded he be signed before Louie would. Go back and look it up. He decided he wanted out and tried to save face, again, fans weren't happy with either.

Saying I'm underestimating his ability to sell tickets, etc is basically saying you know the fan landscape?Seemed like it to me, sorry.
I'm not specifically talking about his name selling tickets I'm talking about the further along you get in the post season the more your team makes.

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07-30-2012, 05:15 PM
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Jeeeeeeeez Still didn't answer how he is a quick fix like you stated though.....
A quick fix is Tallon making this move, rather than staying the course, developing our youth, and making that over-the-top move when we are ready to make that push. Why make a premature move like this now, when there could be something better down the road, when this team is hitting its stride?

Quote:
Because if you are trading for Luongo you are not getting him for nothing. IF your team does trade for Luongo there will be salary coming back to Van but expect a big named prospect coming back. I think Luongo is in the drivers seat really. No GM.
Luongo is in the passenger seat, and whichever GM deals for him would have been in the driver seat. Tallon does not have to deal for him, but Gillis sure does have to deal him. Gillis can ask for our top end prospects, but given the circumstances, I find it very hard to believe that Tallon would give in. Chances are, Gillis will cave long before Tallon would. Vancouver fans will be quite dissapointed if Luongo was traded to Florida, because there will not be any Bjugstad/Huberdeau/Howden names involved.

Quote:
Knee Surgery is not the end of the world but you do have to agree its troubling that a goalie prospect is already getting work done on his knees. You would have to also agree that the knees are HUGE for a goalie.
Yeah, it worries me, but groin injuries are just as serious as knee injuries, if not more serious, on goalies. Seeing what the doctors have said about him, his recovery and outlook, makes me feel like he will be fine.

Quote:
Agreed to the deal isn't the same as signed the deal. As long as he hasn't signed he can still barter for different things.
No, when a deal is agreed upon, that is it. You are shaking hands and pretty much giving your word that it is done. It is disrespectful to the fans, the organization, ownership, and management, when a player does what Luongo and his agent did. It is part of being a man. Does what he did mean that they had to trade him, no, but it burned the bridge between he and the ownership/management group at the time, and it wasnt repairable.

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08-02-2012, 07:07 AM
  #96
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Panthers need scoring. Bjugstad fits that role perfectly. It would have to be a young scorer coming back which kind of defeats the purpose because Bjugstad would probably be better than said play physically as well.

So probably Kadri would get it done but honestly I'd still take Bjugstad
Kadri would never get it done! Tallon wouldn't even trade Bjugs for Kadri and a 1st!

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08-02-2012, 08:31 AM
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Neither Dale and his doppelganger DaVe Tallon or willing to trade their picks. Especially our top center prospect. We don't have to actually be Dale Tallon to know this, we only have to have common sense and listening skills. For those that have listening skills he has said over and over and once again OVER again that we are NOT trading any prospects; if you choose to get another solution IE; the one that involves not trading prospects that is your own fantasy world. By the way the owners are not looking at Loungo as some financial savior, once again Mr.common sense should be utilized; an actually salary of 6.7 million to a low budget franchise is not exactly appealing, combine that with the fact that no one is South Florida will know who he is. Highly doubtful that he puts butts in the seats, he is far from being Lebron James, Jose Reyes money makers that sell jerseys and fill seats with their star power, in Canada hes be that guy in South FLA not so much. The ownership ok'd the deal so the team can be better.

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08-02-2012, 08:49 AM
  #98
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Kadri would never get it done! Tallon wouldn't even trade Bjugs for Kadri and a 1st!
Well that seems like poor asset management.

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08-02-2012, 10:56 AM
  #99
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Canuck fans: You need Luongo!!!

Panther fans: No we are fine thank you.

Canuck fans: but but but He is awesome we won the presidents trophy with him!!!

Panther fans: yawn his numbers are similiar to Theo last year we are fine thank you.

Canuck fans: but but but give us bjustad and we will give you Roberto and look how good you will be and the tickets you will sell

Panther fans: dude we dont want an aging primadonna goalie and his ridiculous contract we will keep our beast of a center and look forward to Theo and the highest rated non NHL goalie in the world, thanks.

Rinse, lather, repeat.


Last edited by adam graves: 08-02-2012 at 11:09 AM.
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08-02-2012, 11:55 AM
  #100
Mystifo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Canuck fans: You need Luongo!!!

Panther fans: No we are fine thank you.

Canuck fans: but but but He is awesome we won the presidents trophy with him!!!

Panther fans: yawn his numbers are similiar to Theo last year we are fine thank you.

Canuck fans: but but but give us bjustad and we will give you Roberto and look how good you will be and the tickets you will sell

Panther fans: dude we dont want an aging primadonna goalie and his ridiculous contract we will keep our beast of a center and look forward to Theo and the highest rated non NHL goalie in the world, thanks.

Rinse, lather, repeat.
Man this sounds a lot like what Vancouver fans are telling the leafs only they want Jake.


Anyways back on topic of the thread. I doubt we have the right pieces in Toronto to get a deal done as it is a internal value VS external value type of system I mean if we are to try to get him I feel Joe Colborne would have to be going back in some fashion as he would fill that hole on their depth chart.


That being said I feel it is better for both teams just to develop their respective prospects.

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