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Is Mario's 1995-96 Season a little overrated?

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07-29-2012, 05:28 PM
  #26
mapes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars23 View Post
Everyone has thier own opinion in this world, and no one's is more valid than another.

But scoring half your Goals and Points on the powrplay is a big gimme, and if you're playing with 150pts Jagr with a Plus 30 and Ron Francis 100pts and Plus 25 and Peter Nedved 100 pts and and Plus 40 .....

Huge discrepancy between Lemieux and the rest. More of a cherry picker? No touch rule like Gretzky after he got sick and came back? Poor? Greatest One Dimensiona forward ever?
Well then others should have scored more on the PP too, if its that easy.

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07-29-2012, 05:29 PM
  #27
Dick Sledge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Yes. Getting 160 points in 70 games should be frowned at.
As is scoring on the powerplay. Because apparently that's super easy.

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07-29-2012, 05:31 PM
  #28
mapes
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Originally Posted by Dick Sledge View Post
As is scoring on the powerplay. Because apparently that's super easy.
That much is obvious. I mean, you get an extra skater. You should score 95 percent of the time.

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07-29-2012, 05:33 PM
  #29
Dick Sledge
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
That much is obvious. I mean, you get an extra skater. You should score 95 percent of the time.
It really is an unfair advantage. As such should be taken out of the game.

Let's make a thread about it!!!!!!!

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07-29-2012, 05:33 PM
  #30
Dick Sledge
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Also his +/- was the way it was because **** happens.

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07-29-2012, 05:49 PM
  #31
BigEezyE22
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The only thing more overrated was Lemiexs 92-93 season. Everyone knows the radiation treatment makes you stronger...look at Spiderman.

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07-29-2012, 05:53 PM
  #32
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And everyone knows that a no touch rule and a lot PP time gets your overrated esp with a low plus minus compared with your peers

Guess no one is going to give answers to the questions, the math is there with all the variables

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07-29-2012, 05:59 PM
  #33
mapes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars23 View Post
And everyone knows that a no touch rule and a lot PP time gets your overrated esp with a low plus minus compared with your peers

Guess no one is going to give answers to the questions, the math is there with all the variables
Nobody is answering because the question is weak. His plus minus was only a plus 10 so therefor overrated? Plus minus is an extremely weak arguement and you know why he had so many points but plus minus wasn't higher? I'll give you a more serious answer.

He did get alot on the PP, which doesn't effect your plus minus (only a SHG would). But don't take away from him just for getting alot on the powerplay. Other guys couldn't do it, so it can't be that easy.

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07-29-2012, 06:02 PM
  #34
Frank Garrett
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HOw many Outscorer Points did he get that season!!?

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07-29-2012, 06:05 PM
  #35
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Nobody is going to answer anything because there's nothing to answer.

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07-29-2012, 06:25 PM
  #36
revolverjgw
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Who cares how many points he had on the PP? If it's so easy to score on the PP, why wasn't anybody else anywhere close to his PP production? It's a goal like any other. That was his bread and butter at the time and it doesn't show up on +/-.

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07-29-2012, 06:25 PM
  #37
MadLuke
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Mario Lemieux could be the best power play player of all times, his power play was not boosting his stats, he was making those power play goal happenning himself.

Probably that was post return Lemieux (specialy 2000-01) was not the best 5on5 player of all times or putting top5 5on5 seasons of all times, but was still a great elite power play force.

If you have less power play called in the playoff and bigger dedication on the penality killing team, you can see is production going down (it is normal for elite player production to go down a bit, you always play against good team that have a special strategy and assigned player to play against you).

For Lemieux you can take all the goal scored because of him on the powerplay and add it to his +/- to compare him with 2way player with good +/-.

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07-29-2012, 06:32 PM
  #38
Puckstop40
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This definitely goes down as one of the dumbest things I've read on this website. 160 points = overrated because he was only a +10

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07-29-2012, 06:35 PM
  #39
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars23 View Post
But scoring half your Goals and Points on the powrplay is a big gimme,
I guess you could look at it that way.

Or, you could look at it like this: Mario scored more power-play points than Ottawa, New Jersey, Anaheim, San Jose, Chicago, Washington, Hartford, Dallas, Boston, the Islanders and Vancouver... and tied Calgary. And did so in 12 fewer games than those teams played. If you go by per-game, only 3 teams in the league outscored Mario on the power play.

If you see that as a "gimme", well... ok.

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07-29-2012, 07:30 PM
  #40
FlyingKostitsyn
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The one thing thats overrated is the +/- stat

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07-29-2012, 07:52 PM
  #41
CalleJAMkrok
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why did i open this thread?

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07-29-2012, 07:58 PM
  #42
BOLD MacT Trade
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Was Crosby's rookie season overrated because he was -1 with 102 points? I don't think so.

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07-29-2012, 07:58 PM
  #43
Axman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEezyE22 View Post
Everyone knows the radiation treatment makes you stronger...look at Spiderman.


...and The Hulk.

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07-29-2012, 08:10 PM
  #44
revolverjgw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOilersDynasty2012 View Post
Was Crosby's rookie season overrated because he was -1 with 102 points? I don't think so.
Crosby's -1 was actually pretty impressive. He was on an absolutely brutal team and any forwards that weren't his linemates all had brutal +/-. The issue with Lemieux is that he was on a great team and had a weak +/- compared to other forwards on his team despite scoring eleventy billion points.

How much weight you give
Lemieux's +/- is up to you, but his situation wasn't comparable to your Crosby example at all. It's worth examining and says a lot about Lemieux's game at the time.

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07-29-2012, 08:14 PM
  #45
crazyforhockey
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very good forward group...... still had Barrasso

but looking at the defensive core

Zubov............................................. .................Mironov,Tamer,Joseph,....late in season wilkinson JJdagneault all no names except JJ....


so quick glance shows me terrible defence to be the cause ...and maybe if Zubov had more help Mario probably scores more points?..and a decent defensive core and Mario's and Barrasso numbers look really good????


I remember Mario being on fire but cant remember other details of the team..... so long term Pens fans may know more

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07-29-2012, 08:30 PM
  #46
MadLuke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudymen View Post
Gretzky in 1988/1989: 168 pts, +15. In 1989/1990: 142 pts, +8. In 1993/1994: 130 pts, -25.
And 1993-1994 Gretzky is probably the only art ross winner not close to be considered for the Hart.

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07-29-2012, 08:40 PM
  #47
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
so quick glance shows me terrible defence to be the cause ...and maybe if Zubov had more help Mario probably scores more points?
At that point in his career, Zubov was practically max-value for offense. Not sure it mattered who his partner was.

Defense on the other hand... it was Zubov himself who was a problem.

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07-29-2012, 08:52 PM
  #48
Don'tcry4mejanhrdina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLuke View Post
And 1993-1994 Gretzky is probably the only art ross winner not close to be considered for the Hart.
He shouldn't have been that year. Fedorov had the much better year. 120 points while being amazing defensively, he deserved the Hart.

Gretzky winning over Lemieux in 89 was a complete joke though.

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07-29-2012, 10:19 PM
  #49
Czech Your Math
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Mario was +10 because they had average goaltending and a very weak defense. Also, he basically abandoned defense due his health, although his reach and smarts still allowed him to steal the puck. I'd say Jagr's '96 season was underrated much more than Lemieux's was overrated (if it was at all).

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07-29-2012, 10:46 PM
  #50
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Another note about these numerous powerplays. Not only did Lemieux control the plays that lead to those pp points, but he caused a whole lot of pp by being awesome and forcing opponents to make mistakes.

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