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Old
01-11-2013, 10:58 AM
  #351
rynryn
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Originally Posted by Beegoalie View Post
Nope, given the chance Seto had last year put Coyle/Zucker there and I'm convinced they produce equal or better stats than Seto. He was bad last season.
that's utterly insane. you expect a raw rookie on a **** team with rotating linemates will score 19 goals?
really?

you realize RNH only had 18 goals, right? with better linemates. still a **** team. Seto had 9 more games than him (i think) but still.

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01-11-2013, 11:47 AM
  #352
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that's utterly insane. you expect a raw rookie on a **** team with rotating linemates will score 19 goals?
really?

you realize RNH only had 18 goals, right? with better linemates. still a **** team. Seto had 9 more games than him (i think) but still.

If you put Jason Zucker..the Jason Zucker from right now. And he takes Devin Setoguchi's ice time exactly and line mates..everything the same. Just plug Zucker from now into last years roster into Seto's role and eliminate Seto.

Jason Zucker scores 19 goals or more in that spot. No doubt about it. He has scored his whole career, college, WJC's and now shown that in an AHL league full of talent that he can score 15 goals in 30 games in that league. Theres no reason he can't score a goal every 4 games last year on that team given Seto's ice time and PP minutes.

Either you overvalue Setoguchi who is not an All Star player. He is a top 6/9 forward with good speed a good shot and blah for hands who scored a lot of goals as a secondary player playing with a star studded forward group in San Jose.

Or you undervalue Jason Zucker, whose is slowly turning into a Mike Cammalleri..go look at the numbers between the two. They don't lie.

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01-11-2013, 11:57 AM
  #353
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You can't assume Zucker is going to produce what Setoguchi produces. You just can't.

But more importantly, would it make sense to keep them both? A good team will have 20-goal scorers on all three lines.

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01-11-2013, 01:35 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Beegoalie View Post
If you put Jason Zucker..the Jason Zucker from right now. And he takes Devin Setoguchi's ice time exactly and line mates..everything the same. Just plug Zucker from now into last years roster into Seto's role and eliminate Seto.

Jason Zucker scores 19 goals or more in that spot. No doubt about it. He has scored his whole career, college, WJC's and now shown that in an AHL league full of talent that he can score 15 goals in 30 games in that league. Theres no reason he can't score a goal every 4 games last year on that team given Seto's ice time and PP minutes.

Either you overvalue Setoguchi who is not an All Star player. He is a top 6/9 forward with good speed a good shot and blah for hands who scored a lot of goals as a secondary player playing with a star studded forward group in San Jose.

Or you undervalue Jason Zucker, whose is slowly turning into a Mike Cammalleri..go look at the numbers between the two. They don't lie.
I think you're overvaluing unproven product vs proven product. No way you can just expect Zucker to produce more than a proven NHLer who can score 20-30 goals.

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Old
01-11-2013, 02:17 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Beegoalie View Post
If you put Jason Zucker..the Jason Zucker from right now. And he takes Devin Setoguchi's ice time exactly and line mates..everything the same. Just plug Zucker from now into last years roster into Seto's role and eliminate Seto.

Jason Zucker scores 19 goals or more in that spot. No doubt about it. He has scored his whole career, college, WJC's and now shown that in an AHL league full of talent that he can score 15 goals in 30 games in that league. Theres no reason he can't score a goal every 4 games last year on that team given Seto's ice time and PP minutes.

Either you overvalue Setoguchi who is not an All Star player. He is a top 6/9 forward with good speed a good shot and blah for hands who scored a lot of goals as a secondary player playing with a star studded forward group in San Jose.

Or you undervalue Jason Zucker, whose is slowly turning into a Mike Cammalleri..go look at the numbers between the two. They don't lie.
You're a bit overzealous in your Zucker love. That's about all there is to it.

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Old
01-11-2013, 03:42 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Spurgeron is a smurf and should have limited minutes simply because the guy won't be able to go against some of the biggest forwards in the league.
Yeah, right. There's a reason why he's in our 1st pairing. I can't believe I have to explain this, but his hockey IQ is phenomenal, his vision is excellent and he can distribute the puck with ease, not to mention his mobility, which is top notch. His only downsides are his size and his shot.

I still think he's a legit top-4 NHL D-man. More people will agree with me once this season is over.

And it's written Spurgeon. Taking spelling lessons from a Finn is not very convincing.

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01-11-2013, 04:19 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
You're a bit overzealous in your Zucker love. That's about all there is to it.
Zucker is now and is also going to be a beast! Wait and see people, wait and see!

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01-11-2013, 04:27 PM
  #358
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I swear it's like you are overzealous about Coyle or Zucker around here lol I swear like it's a mini competition between them and their fans of who turns out to be the better prospect. It's a good problem to have I guess.

<---- JZ is a beast.

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01-11-2013, 05:24 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow View Post
Yeah, right. There's a reason why he's in our 1st pairing.
Because we have no one else?

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I can't believe I have to explain this, but his hockey IQ is phenomenal, his vision is excellent and he can distribute the puck with ease, not to mention his mobility, which is top notch. His only downsides are his size and his shot.
Great. He's a solid 1st PP player. His size is a huge downside. How many times did he get injured last year or was shaken up? If he was around an inch or two higher, I think he would be a great defenseman.

BTW what makes Granlund more NHL ready than Zucker at this point? He's still an unproven rookie. Why are we penciling him for 20-30 points already. For all we know he could end up being a bust.

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01-11-2013, 05:28 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Because we have no one else?



Great. He's a solid 1st PP player. His size is a huge downside. How many times did he get injured last year or was shaken up? If he was around an inch or two higher, I think he would be a great defenseman.

BTW what makes Granlund more NHL ready than Zucker at this point? He's still an unproven rookie. Why are we penciling him for 20-30 points already. For all we know he could end up being a bust.
Optimism?

Any rookie can bust.

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01-11-2013, 07:17 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Optimism?

Any rookie can bust.
And we're optimistic that Setoguchi can be replaced by Coyle/Zucker.

Get this; Miettinen had more goals than Setoguchi in a year, Mark Parrish had the same amount (and was on pace to get more than 19 goals in his season after as he got 16 in 66), White had as many goals as well.

What does this prove? You can find 20 goal scorers in the NHL. Unless Setoguchi starts picking it up like 25-30 again, he can be replaced.


Last edited by thestonedkoala: 01-11-2013 at 07:32 PM.
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Old
01-11-2013, 07:42 PM
  #362
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when it's all conference games in a severely truncated season they're not going to swap a known commodity that is at his worst at 19 goals in 60-some games for a rookie. especially not when the pressure is on as high as it is this year.

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01-11-2013, 08:19 PM
  #363
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Look at all of you now jumping on the Zucker fanboy bandwagon.

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Old
01-11-2013, 08:20 PM
  #364
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Oh boy. There's some high expectations in this thread.

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Old
01-11-2013, 10:22 PM
  #365
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You're complaining about a guy who scored 19 goals on a DOWN year? That zucker argument is just silly, he is still unproven. But I hope he's a good one.


Last edited by WildisLaw: 01-11-2013 at 11:03 PM.
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Old
01-11-2013, 10:31 PM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
And we're optimistic that Setoguchi can be replaced by Coyle/Zucker.

Get this; Miettinen had more goals than Setoguchi in a year, Mark Parrish had the same amount (and was on pace to get more than 19 goals in his season after as he got 16 in 66), White had as many goals as well.

What does this prove? You can find 20 goal scorers in the NHL. Unless Setoguchi starts picking it up like 25-30 again, he can be replaced.
Yeah on the best seasons of their careers. You undervalue Seto, he has all the tools to get to 30 goals a season and he's a character guy so there's no doubt in my mind he is rebounding after last season.

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01-11-2013, 11:49 PM
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Because we have no one else?
Well, we have Tom Gilbert for starters. If Spurgeon has indeed passed Gilbert on our depth chart, that alone is a big achievement. Gilbert is, after all, a proven NHL-er.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Great. He's a solid 1st PP player. His size is a huge downside. How many times did he get injured last year or was shaken up? If he was around an inch or two higher, I think he would be a great defenseman.
Size isn't the only factor to getting injured. How many times have we seen Mikko Koivu, with his NHL body, a proven NHL-caliber 1st liner, get injured? Answer: Many. Stoner? A big body D-man who plays it physical? Yep, he gets injured a lot, too. Marco Scandella is currently on IR and it's not like he lost some sort of virginity there either.

Spurgeon has been able to stay surprisingly healthy. If he doesn't get elbowed to the head on a nightly basis, I don't see why he would be any more injury-prone than any other NHL player.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
BTW what makes Granlund more NHL ready than Zucker at this point? He's still an unproven rookie. Why are we penciling him for 20-30 points already. For all we know he could end up being a bust.
He's played last three seasons versus men. Zucker's only played versus men since last spring. There's a big difference.

And Zucker doesn't have his own stamp.


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01-12-2013, 12:34 AM
  #368
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Well, we have Tom Gilbert for starters. If Spurgeon has indeed passed Gilbert on our depth chart, that alone is a big achievement. Gilbert is, after all, a proven NHL-er.
Or the fact we don't want to put all our eggs in one basket.

Quote:
Size isn't the only factor to getting injured. How many times have we seen Mikko Koivu, with his NHL body, a proven NHL-caliber 1st liner, get injured? Answer: Many. Stoner? A big body D-man who plays it physical? Yep, he gets injured a lot, too. Marco Scandella is currently on IR and it's not like he lost some sort of virginity there either
How many times have we seen Bouchard get injured? I am a big proponent of not dismissing a guy because of his size but height is a concern. If a guy is like Clutterbuck, small but squat, that's fine. He has mass.

Quote:
Spurgeon has been able to stay surprisingly healthy. If he doesn't get elbowed to the head on a nightly basis, I don't see why he would be any more injury-prone than any other NHL player.
He still missed 12 games last year. And it was his rookie season.

Quote:
He's played last three seasons versus men. Zucker's only played versus men since last spring. There's a big difference.

And Zucker doesn't have his own stamp.
And Zucker played in college on North American ice.

Why are we penciling in Granlund for 2nd line duty when Cullen is there and Cullen has proven to be a 20-20 guy?

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01-12-2013, 01:03 AM
  #369
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yeah, Spurgie hasn't passed Gilbert on any depth chart. that right there is pairing vets with relative noobs. We get another top four vet and spurgie goes down. You know he looked good last year in part because almost everyone else looked like crap...like a "6" girl looks like an "8" when she's traveling with "3"s. pretty crass but same idea.

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01-12-2013, 01:06 AM
  #370
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And it was his rookie season.
So the 53 games he played in 2010-2011 never happened?

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01-12-2013, 01:53 AM
  #371
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And Zucker doesn't have his own stamp.
Bust.





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01-12-2013, 03:19 AM
  #372
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Gilbert is our second best defenseman ainec, I'm hoping for a big year from him as well.

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01-12-2013, 03:25 AM
  #373
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Look at all of us... Fighting over stupid ****. We've arrived.

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Old
01-12-2013, 08:57 AM
  #374
rynryn
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i'm fighting with a smile on my face.

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01-12-2013, 09:28 AM
  #375
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pffft like we would have prospects to fight about..

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