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Old
01-24-2013, 01:47 PM
  #576
Jbcraig1883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puhis View Post
Exactly.

We have Brodin, Gunnarsson, Dumba and Seeler on the pipeline. No need to trade for D.
I know several others scoff at the intangibles or attitude a guy has but I happen to believe in it. Based on that, I would not want Subban.

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01-24-2013, 02:05 PM
  #577
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The wild wont be trading for a big name forward until we shed some salary. Once Cullen, PMB, Heater and Backs come off the books...I could see it.

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01-24-2013, 02:13 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Jbcraig1883 View Post
I know several others scoff at the intangibles or attitude a guy has but I happen to believe in it. Based on that, I would not want Subban.
He's a popular superstar RFA defenseman who puts up lots of points, hits huge, makes great passes, and went +9 while playing 24 minutes a night for the worst team in his conference. And we'd be buying low while MTL's in a bind.

I'm not convinced he even has attitude issues, either. I think that's just code for "gregarious and interesting" because Don Cherry and Boston fans need reasons to criticize him out of jealousy. Habs fans love him, his teammates like him (just look at his relationship with Carey Price), and I've never heard anything concrete about coaching issues.

Just remember, everyone, Dany Heatley had the "attitude problems" tag before we traded for him, and they turned out to be completely ridiculous and mostly based on reputation smearing by jilted former teams. And now Russo's publishing stories about what a great and respected leader he is, and how Yeo is trying hard to fix the media's perception.

There are plenty of reasons not to make a deal, mostly the asking price, but I think it would be really closed-minded and unreasonable if Fletcher didn't inquire based on just his media reputation.

We'd have to dump some salary, sure, but remember that Backs, Bouchard, and Cullen (a total of $13.5M) are off the books in July.

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01-24-2013, 02:14 PM
  #579
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Depends how "outrageous" Subban's demands apparently are.

I'd be hesitant to trade for any of them. Have some young'n's to sign coming up. Need to maintain some flexibility on top of that.
Oh I agree, I wouldn't want to trade for any of them. I was just making a point that if we had to trade for one of them, it would be Subban for me.

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Old
01-24-2013, 02:15 PM
  #580
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Subban is a bit of a ****. But that part of his game. He's a very capable defenseman and he also has a clutterbuck or burrows quality about him that drives people nuts.

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01-24-2013, 04:54 PM
  #581
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I think I'm bullish on Brodin, Scandella, Spurgeon, Stoner, and Falk to the point that I don't see the need for a top-4 Dman.

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Old
01-24-2013, 05:18 PM
  #582
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I found this interesting from Cullen at TSN.ca/nhl. Not actually that many good options for Montreal if they do decide to trade Subban. Minnesota would be suprising towards the top of the list if we did Dumba+.


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=414366

SUBBAN TRADE POSSIBILITIES
TSN Insider Bob McKenzie says he could see the Montreal Canadiens-P.K. Subban contract impasse resulting in Subban eventually being traded, so I've browed around the league to try and find some teams that would both like a top pair defenceman and be willing to pay for him, both in contract terms and in assets to Montreal.

THESE ARE NOT RUMOURS! They are merely attempts to find rosters that could use Subban and offer some value to Montreal in return.

Some possibilities that might fit:
Philadelphia: C Sean Couturier.
Minnesota: D Mathew Dumba.
Toronto: D Morgan Rielly.
New Jersey: D Adam Larsson.
Los Angeles: D Slava Voynov and RW Tyler Toffoli.
Edmonton: Some combination of D Jeff Petry/LW Magnus Paajarvi and a first-round pick (rolling the dice on the Oilers staying in the lottery for another year).
Detroit: Some F-D combination of C Gustav Nyquist/RW Tomas Tatar/C Riley Sheahan/D Brian Lashoff/D Jakub Kindl
Dallas Stars: Might need more than Subban to get C Jamie Benn, but teams could swap their RFA headaches.

Of course, if it ultimately reaches that point, any team might be able to make a Subban acquisition fit, but these are a few spots worth exploring.

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Old
01-24-2013, 05:19 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Puhis View Post

We have Brodin, Gunnarsson, Dumba and Seeler on the pipeline. No need to trade for D.
Gunnarsson maybe. Dumba is still a bit off (maybe 2-3 years) but Seeler is probably 4-5 years off if that.

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Old
01-24-2013, 06:49 PM
  #584
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Hmm...not sold on a trade Dumba+ for Subban deal, but not unequivocally opposed to it either. What is the cap? How much room do we have to work with assuming Subban gets $5m/yr out of us? How many spots do we have to fill if we just let everyone go? Upgrading the D, sure, but then you're gambling on the kids from Houston replacing vets immediately, pretty much all at once. Say what you want about Hards' play this year but MS...who knows.
I like the steady approach Fletcher has made thus far, and with the positive things teammates are saying about Dumba I'm leaning toward keeping him.

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Old
01-24-2013, 08:10 PM
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
He's a popular superstar RFA defenseman who puts up lots of points, hits huge, makes great passes, and went +9 while playing 24 minutes a night for the worst team in his conference. And we'd be buying low while MTL's in a bind.

I'm not convinced he even has attitude issues, either. I think that's just code for "gregarious and interesting" because Don Cherry and Boston fans need reasons to criticize him out of jealousy. Habs fans love him, his teammates like him (just look at his relationship with Carey Price), and I've never heard anything concrete about coaching issues.

Just remember, everyone, Dany Heatley had the "attitude problems" tag before we traded for him, and they turned out to be completely ridiculous and mostly based on reputation smearing by jilted former teams. And now Russo's publishing stories about what a great and respected leader he is, and how Yeo is trying hard to fix the media's perception.

There are plenty of reasons not to make a deal, mostly the asking price, but I think it would be really closed-minded and unreasonable if Fletcher didn't inquire based on just his media reputation.

We'd have to dump some salary, sure, but remember that Backs, Bouchard, and Cullen (a total of $13.5M) are off the books in July.

Those are some good points.

As far as the attitude problems, I was referring to him getting into fights in practice last year. I believe there were 2 or 3 altercations (google the articles). If they were a result of him just playing hard, that's fine. But if guys are going after him due to attitude, then I'd rather pass on him.

I guess it really depends what it would cost us both in terms of prospects/players/picks and the salary he is demanding. I am more on the conservative side of things right now, just wanting to see how the current team and prospects develop over the course of the season to get a better idea of what we have.

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Old
01-24-2013, 08:22 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
Hmm...not sold on a trade Dumba+ for Subban deal, but not unequivocally opposed to it either. What is the cap? How much room do we have to work with assuming Subban gets $5m/yr out of us? How many spots do we have to fill if we just let everyone go? Upgrading the D, sure, but then you're gambling on the kids from Houston replacing vets immediately, pretty much all at once. Say what you want about Hards' play this year but MS...who knows.
I like the steady approach Fletcher has made thus far, and with the positive things teammates are saying about Dumba I'm leaning toward keeping him.
Backstrom and Cullen are probably both gone. Combined is a 9.5 million loss, which, with the new Salary Cap, will give us ~3.5 million in room. If Bouchard is dropped, that gets us to ~7.5 in room.

We then have to re-sign Spurgeon, Clutterbuck, and Falk. If we get Subban, I'd guess that Falk is dropped. 2.5 million to sign Spurgeon and Clutterbuck? Eh...Clutter will probably get 1.75-2 million a year, Spurgeon will probably get a full million.

Basically, if Subban gets 5 a year, the Wild won't have a whole lot of room to do much else.

It would be worth it.

EDIT: Forgot Barker's buyout is off of the books next season. That gets another 500k. Ooooooohhhhhh

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Old
01-24-2013, 08:44 PM
  #587
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We don't have the depth in our pool of prospects to trade for Subban and we aren't in a win now mode... The last young D we traded for was Cam Barker...

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:00 PM
  #588
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i think clutter will get over $2m

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:08 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
i think clutter will get over $2m
Brodz got close to 3. Clutter's gonna get 2.5 IMO.

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:30 PM
  #590
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We don't have the depth in our pool of prospects to trade for Subban and we aren't in a win now mode... The last young D we traded for was Cam Barker...
If we traded for Subban we'd become a team in a win now mode. For ****'s sake, we've been in "win in three years mode" for twelve years now.

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:51 AM
  #591
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I wouldn't hold nine years of Risebrough's incompetence against Chuck Fletcher.

Wouldn't be opposed to trading Dumba for Subban but you're going to have to move some salary and probably give up more than you want.

Still would rather be patient.

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01-25-2013, 12:08 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
If we traded for Subban we'd become a team in a win now mode. For ****'s sake, we've been in "win in three years mode" for twelve years now.
I agree with Jarick, I like Subban, but the price is too high..

Plus we're floating near the cap...

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01-25-2013, 12:38 PM
  #593
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I think Clutterbuck asks for 3 mil and is gone because he shouldn't be paid more than 2 mil IMO. Maybe not with EVERYBODY's cap going down, but there always seems to be some stupid GM who overvalues "toughness" and pays 2.5-3.5 for a 3rd line winger.

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Old
01-25-2013, 12:43 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
I think Clutterbuck asks for 3 mil and is gone because he shouldn't be paid more than 2 mil IMO. Maybe not with EVERYBODY's cap going down, but there always seems to be some stupid GM who overvalues "toughness" and pays 2.5-3.5 for a 3rd line winger.


See Brandon Prust.

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Old
01-25-2013, 01:05 PM
  #595
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
I think Clutterbuck asks for 3 mil and is gone because he shouldn't be paid more than 2 mil IMO. Maybe not with EVERYBODY's cap going down, but there always seems to be some stupid GM who overvalues "toughness" and pays 2.5-3.5 for a 3rd line winger.
Yeah, I hope GMCF holds a hard line at $2m. Clutter is only an RFA, so the worst he could do is holdout right? He really shouldn't get anything near what Brodziak got.

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Old
01-25-2013, 01:11 PM
  #596
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
I think Clutterbuck asks for 3 mil and is gone because he shouldn't be paid more than 2 mil IMO. Maybe not with EVERYBODY's cap going down, but there always seems to be some stupid GM who overvalues "toughness" and pays 2.5-3.5 for a 3rd line winger.
Wonder if Clutter could get an offer sheet if he holds out. Compensation would only be a second rounder at that price.

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01-25-2013, 01:18 PM
  #597
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Wonder if Clutter could get an offer sheet if he holds out. Compensation would only be a second rounder at that price.
If he holds out... Well... Time to move on from him, quickly.

No need to wait for an offer sheet.

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01-25-2013, 02:59 PM
  #598
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
He's a popular superstar RFA defenseman who puts up lots of points, hits huge, makes great passes, and went +9 while playing 24 minutes a night for the worst team in his conference. And we'd be buying low while MTL's in a bind.

I'm not convinced he even has attitude issues, either. I think that's just code for "gregarious and interesting" because Don Cherry and Boston fans need reasons to criticize him out of jealousy. Habs fans love him, his teammates like him (just look at his relationship with Carey Price), and I've never heard anything concrete about coaching issues.

Just remember, everyone, Dany Heatley had the "attitude problems" tag before we traded for him, and they turned out to be completely ridiculous and mostly based on reputation smearing by jilted former teams. And now Russo's publishing stories about what a great and respected leader he is, and how Yeo is trying hard to fix the media's perception.

There are plenty of reasons not to make a deal, mostly the asking price, but I think it would be really closed-minded and unreasonable if Fletcher didn't inquire based on just his media reputation.

We'd have to dump some salary, sure, but remember that Backs, Bouchard, and Cullen (a total of $13.5M) are off the books in July.


Well said.

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Old
01-25-2013, 03:08 PM
  #599
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as for fighting in camp, Clutterbuck came up and ruffled everyone's feathers...it earned him a spot.

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01-25-2013, 03:23 PM
  #600
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The cost of Subban isn't Dumba+. It's Dumba+ AND Gilbert.

If we got Subban, that would pretty much just mean that we were trading Gilbert+Dumba+whatever else we traded to get Subban, because signing Subban would mean that Gilbert was on the way out (since the blueline money would go to re-signing Spurgeon, Stoner, Falk, and Scandella).

And I'm not sure Subban would be enough of an upgrade over Gilbert to justify losing Dumba+.

Rather, the Wild are going to need a top-4 Dman in 3-4 years, which is the time period when Dumba should be ready, and we currently might be 2 weeks from saying "Oh, we have a pretty good blueline."

I mean, our blueline has actually looked decent in these first three games, and that's without Brodin and Scandella.

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