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Do The Leafs Need A Shutdown D Man?

View Poll Results: Do The Leafs Need A Shutdown D Man?
Yes 36 58.06%
No 17 27.42%
No, Gunnarsson can play a shutdown role if required 9 14.52%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-30-2012, 11:31 AM
  #26
Mess
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Agreed, they need an upgrade to partner with Phaneuf.
Which is the same thing as saying Leafs need a top pairing defender, who is defensively responsible/reliable and can play big minutes against top opponents both ES and PK.

Which is exactly what a good shutdown pairing defender's responsibility would be, and therefore a Leafs recognized need to be addressed.

Its also why some Leaf fans that recognize this, believe in addition to the obvious #1C and #1G, they also need a #1 pairing Dman to become competitive on the shopping list of teams needs going forward..

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07-30-2012, 11:32 AM
  #27
GordieHoweHatTrick
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A steady, conservative presence with above average hockey IQ and wheels would be welcome addition to pair Phaneuf with. Said player doesn't have to be a legit #1 or 2 - Phaneuf is our #1, we just need someone who will compliment him well.

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07-30-2012, 11:34 AM
  #28
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Getting a guy who does nothing but protect his own end (think Scott Stevens) would be great but the Leafs need to focus their resources on acquiring a #1 center.

Holzer has the size and defense-first mindset that could fill that role. We won't know until we see him perform in training camp... but given how many defensemen we have in the pipeline, regardless if they're thought of as PMD's or whatever, Burke's focus needs to be on improving our center depth.

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07-30-2012, 11:35 AM
  #29
Ricky Bobby
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I'm more concerned with the goaltending and forwards then with our D Group.

But this team could still benefit greatly from the addition of another 20 minute a night calibar dman.

For this season I'd like to see Burke sign Roszival to a one-year deal and ship out Franson.

Then next season Holzer will be ready to play a few more minutes, Rielly and Blacker will also be that much more ready.

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07-30-2012, 11:43 AM
  #30
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Scott Hannan would look pretty damn good skating with Dion.

If Luke Schenn could skate, he would be Scott Hannan!

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07-30-2012, 11:51 AM
  #31
Frelimo
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Originally Posted by NaiveLeafsFan View Post
Francois Beauchemin. We should target that guy.
His trade value is too high ... apparently he's worth Gardiner and Lupul. I wouldn't even do it for one of those guys.

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07-30-2012, 11:52 AM
  #32
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Coburn on Philly is someone who I'd love to have ride shotgun with Phaneuf.

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07-30-2012, 11:53 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Scott Hannan would look pretty damn good skating with Dion.

If Luke Schenn could skate, he would be Scott Hannan!
Only in a run and gun system where defensive dmen are asked to join the rush does it expose foot speed.

However in a controlled structured system with these types of players asked to play to their strengths of positional hockey, blocking shots and hitting and clearing the crease, while battling big power forwards in your own zone, does foot speed become less of an issue, particularly when the defense gets support from its back-checking forwards.

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07-30-2012, 11:55 AM
  #34
ACC1224
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Scott Hannan would look pretty damn good skating with Dion.

If Luke Schenn could skate, he would be Scott Hannan!
Yep the days of dmen being limited to their own end are over. You need to be able to play at both ends if you're to play top minutes.

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07-30-2012, 11:56 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Only in a run and gun system where defensive dmen are asked to join the rush does it expose foot speed.

However in a controlled structured system with these types of players asked to play to their strengths of positional hockey, blocking shots and hitting and clearing the crease, while battling big power forwards in your own zone, does foot speed become less of an issue, particularly when the defense gets support from its back-checking forwards.
Slow people get exposed by fast people. Playing a run-and-gun system does make the problem a lot worse, but you can't pretend a system is going to erase the fact that somebody can't skate.

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07-30-2012, 11:56 AM
  #36
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaiveLeafsFan View Post
Coburn on Philly is someone who I'd love to have ride shotgun with Phaneuf.
Coburn is a great suggestion but quite obviously not in the realm of possibility

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07-30-2012, 11:59 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Only in a run and gun system where defensive dmen are asked to join the rush does it expose foot speed.

However in a controlled structured system with these types of players asked to play to their strengths of positional hockey, blocking shots and hitting and clearing the crease, while battling big power forwards in your own zone, does foot speed become less of an issue, particularly when the defense gets support from its back-checking forwards.
Have to disagree with this. Slow foot speed is exposed when you are bad positionally. That's why Luke Schenn looked so terrible last season...he's always been on the slow side but when his confidence was super low and he had poor position, he looked even worse.

Back checking forwards do help somewhat, but not when you're constantly getting beat down low despite size and strength advantage.

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07-30-2012, 12:10 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaiveLeafsFan View Post
Francois Beauchemin. We should target that guy.
For whatever reason it was a tragedy that Beauchemin never worked out for Toronto. He would have been perfect had the coaching system or whatever else ailed Beauchemin did not happen.

The Leafs could use a veteran defender that can play in Carlyle's system and can produce offensively when called upon. The team last year were a collective 29th overall in goals against that clearly shows an improvement is needed in the defence core.

Luke Schenn was expendable as he was part of the core that had this problem. Franson can still help in the bottom pairing, but Holzer is not even ready to take top two defensive responsibilities.

That means the team does have a need on the top pairing for a defensive minded player that can bring at least marginal offense to help on even strength chances. Let the offensive minded defenders like Gardiner and Liles help out on the power play while the defensive minded top pairing defender can help on the power kill and even strength situations.

I would argue the need for a top pairing defensively responsible defender is more important for this team right now than getting a 1A center for the top line. The offense was not an issue last year and this team is capable of bringing this offense without the first line center. It was the defence and goaltending that got this team down.

Top needs are:

Veteran Goaltending
Top pairing defensive defenseman
1A Center

In that order. If the Leafs can get the above addressed this off-season, then the Leafs have a chance at least making some noise in the Eastern Conference for a playoff berth.

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07-30-2012, 12:13 PM
  #39
indigobuffalo
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Isn't that why we got Morgan Rielly?

Same with Dunn?

Dunn is more of a defensive-only guy, but Rielly brings solid two-way play with the potential for elite offensive touch.

I think the team will look to address the shut-down defensive pairing internally.

Trades look to be focusing on the 1G or 1C issue.

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07-30-2012, 12:15 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
Isn't that why we got Morgan Rielly?

Same with Dunn?

Dunn is more of a defensive-only guy, but Rielly brings solid two-way play with the potential for elite offensive touch.

I think the team will look to address the shut-down defensive pairing internally.

Trades look to be focusing on the 1G or 1C issue.
You mean Finn?

Ya, I think the goaltending and centre positions have to be addressed before we worry about a shutdown D.

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07-30-2012, 12:16 PM
  #41
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we should try and hustle calgary again for girodano. or bowmester. or both.

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07-30-2012, 12:31 PM
  #42
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God yes our defense is terrible at playing defense.

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07-30-2012, 12:42 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
A steady, conservative presence with above average hockey IQ and wheels would be welcome addition to pair Phaneuf with. Said player doesn't have to be a legit #1 or 2 - Phaneuf is our #1, we just need someone who will compliment him well.
Ladislav Smid would be a perfect guy for that job. He is a warrior.

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07-30-2012, 12:50 PM
  #44
Kyle Doobas*
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Gunnarsson is already the team's best "shut-down" d-man, but another quality defensive defenseman would be welcome IMO.

IIRC it was rumoured that Burke made an offer for Douglas Murray at the draft.

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07-30-2012, 12:59 PM
  #45
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Look at our PK/GAA.

/thread

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07-30-2012, 01:00 PM
  #46
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I feel like we gave up on Aulie too soon. I thought he could be that guy in the coming years. Guys with his size and skating ability don't grow on trees. The upside of Aulie is greater than the upside of Ashton IMO.

I think we should go after Murray. According to Sharks Fans, Murray has been made expendable by Justin Braun, whom had and impressive late season/playoffs. Shark, i think, are looking to add some scoring, two way wingers.

Kulemin for Murray Staight up? Add a pick or prospect on our side? help me out here. I'm bad at these.

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07-30-2012, 01:04 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by ALine View Post
I feel like we gave up on Aulie too soon. I thought he could be that guy in the coming years. Guys with his size and skating ability don't grow on trees. The upside of Aulie is greater than the upside of Ashton IMO.

I think we should go after Murray. According to Sharks Fans, Murray has been made expendable by Justin Braun, whom had and impressive late season/playoffs. Shark, i think, are looking to add some scoring, two way wingers.

Kulemin for Murray Staight up? Add a pick or prospect on our side? help me out here. I'm bad at these.
Some people suggested Macarthur for Murray straight up, I would rather do that then Kulemin for Murray straight up.

Also Ashton has higher upside then Aulie, so the Aulie for Ashton trade was a bit of a steal for the Leafs.

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07-30-2012, 01:05 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
I think the days of a stictly shut down dman are over.

I say no, a shut down dman is not needed. Someone to play with Phanuef is needed.
Agreed. The strength of a modern blueline corps is basically everyone has the ability to play in as many situations and contribute as much as possible.

A shutdown defenseman seems to be based on the notion that you're hemmed into your own zone and you need a guy to clean up the mess. Looking at Detroit's old puck possession model, the opponent never really has the puck in your end for too long that you're under seige. Instead, you simply force a turnover with your smart, mobile and skilled defensemen, regroup possession and exit the zone as quickly and efficiently as possible.

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07-30-2012, 01:10 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by MintoMadDogsKiller18 View Post
Some people suggested Macarthur for Murray straight up, I would rather do that then Kulemin for Murray straight up.

Also Ashton has higher upside then Aulie, so the Aulie for Ashton trade was a bit of a steal for the Leafs.
Huh? You value MacArthur more than Kulemin?...

MacArthur is a one-trick pony. He can put up points, but only in a supporting role. He's not overly physical and he's not very good defensively. He really doesn't have the ability at all to be a key contributor on a SC winning team.

Kulemin on the other hand can also put up points, but only in a supporting role. His career high in goals is better than MacArthurs, and he's significantly better both physically and defensively compared to Mac. Kulemin can play as either an outstanding 3rd line winger, or as a solid top 6 winger (assuming he can rebound offensively) on a SC calibre team.

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07-30-2012, 01:11 PM
  #50
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I still feel wierd about the aulie trade but for some reason i like it.

And I really hope we dont trade kule, breaking up him and grabo would be terrible.

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