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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part XXII: Doan Go Breakin My Heart Edition

View Poll Results: So where do you think we go from here?
RayRay will sign a UFA quality wing in the preseason 4 2.67%
RayRay will sign a UFA grinder because that’s just how we roll 13 8.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a quality wing 19 12.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a grinder 2 1.33%
RayRay will give Adams a $11.5 million raise. 22 14.67%
RayRay will swing a trade deadline trade for a quality wing 62 41.33%
RayRay will buy himself $12 million of bling and rock this house 10 6.67%
Who gives a ****? Edward and Bella broke up, OMG 18 12.00%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-31-2012, 04:22 PM
  #226
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Every off-season, our winger search is like playing a game of Wheel of Fortune where you can only land on $1, $0.10, or bankrupt.

As much as folks like to defend Shero around here (and he is a very fine GM), it's tough not to be disappointed and/or frustrated. I definitely thought we would have a full-time winger for Sid by now, especially when you consider that the guy signed a cap-friendly long-term contract and is still acclimating to the NHL after a very long layoff.

We saw what adding a legit wing did to Malkin's game... it's almost a no brainer that adding a playmaker to Sid's line would take his game to an entirely new stratosphere.

Sadly, it just wasn't in the cards this offseason.
By now?

Crosby just signed his extension last month, summer is only halfway done, and his 12 year extension doesn't even come into effect until next July.

By now?

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07-31-2012, 04:24 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
By now?

Crosby just signed his extension last month, summer is only halfway done, and his 12 year extension doesn't even come into effect until next July.

By now?
I think he was more pointing to the fact that this will be Sid's 8th year in the league and he still hasn't been given a legitimate first line winger.

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07-31-2012, 04:28 PM
  #228
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Getting a winger for Sid and building around Sid/Geno from here on out should be Shero's gameplan. We have the centers. We've drafted the D-men. Time to make some hockey trades.


Last edited by mpp9: 07-31-2012 at 04:36 PM.
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07-31-2012, 04:32 PM
  #229
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I really have no desire of brining Doan in here for the rumored amount he wants (4 years ~$6 mil). He's a good player and all, but I don't see a 40 year old Doan being worth it. I'd do 2 years tops. Not that it matters because he'll go elsewhere.

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07-31-2012, 04:33 PM
  #230
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That's a fine and dandy plan, except he won't sign here for 2 years. If he leaves Phoenix it is to a place where he can finish out his career and cash out on his final contract. (6M+, 4 years)

Don't get me wrong. I would much rather prefer to give Doan 6M/2. But we won't get him unless we offer 4. It's that simple
Then you have to go something like 6, 6, 4, 3 given his age. Anything more than that is begging for problems. Especially if we don't get the cap boosts we assume over the next 24 months. I fully expect Shero to try and lock up Malkin next summer exactly as he did Crosby this summer (a year ahead), and those other players mentioned are not unimportant to our success. They're all going to cost us some coin. Especially Malkin, Letang and likely Sutter.

Tying up $7M for a guy like Doan, at 35 and counting, for four years, is nuts.

If he must have his four years then fine, but he has to give a little too (which he won't). So I'm perfectly fine with Shero not causing himself problems down the road by making a desperation move to overpay Doan.

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07-31-2012, 04:36 PM
  #231
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If we pass on UFA's from here on out, then who do you trade to upgrade the top-6?

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07-31-2012, 04:40 PM
  #232
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If we pass on UFA's from here on out, then who do you trade to upgrade the top-6?
We'll find out in February. No one knows exactly who will re-up and who won't but there are more good names on the potential deadline list (even as rentals) than on the FA list. I don't want to overpay there either but if you can swing for the fences with a guy like Perry or Iginla, that makes a huge impact on this year's Cup run, even if they don't come back. Doan's impact all season long, would not be as big as having one of those two guys the last 20 games of the season, going into the playoffs... and Ray with a reasonable shot of signing either of them if we win.

The FA mode is better only in that you're not trading assets away to acquire. Otherwise, it's more expensive for players who are less talented, and it's more risky (unless the trade you make is a big overpayment which Shero won't do).

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07-31-2012, 04:41 PM
  #233
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i can understand people not wanting to overpay for doan, and preferring instead to wait for better value, ie ufas next offseason or acquiring a player via trade this season.

but what if such opportunities never present themselves? ie the ufa crop dries up like it has this offseason, or like 28 of 30 teams are in the playoff hunt come deadline and prices are thru the roof. what then? i dont see too many trades like the neal deal available-- it was a fairly unique situation.

is there a time and a place to "overpay" for someone? the penguins window to win the cup will never be greater than it is right now.

i think there might be a time where it's appropriate, and doan, due to his leadership/physicality/intangibles could be that guy.

on a similar train of thought, shero is obviously not one to overpay for players. however, if for whatever reason he did finally overpay for someone, i really think a guy like doan or iginla are the two players hed be willing change his tactics for. those two are very much-shero type players, which is why i can convince myself that shero might overpay for him.

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07-31-2012, 04:46 PM
  #234
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I think he was more pointing to the fact that this will be Sid's 8th year in the league and he still hasn't been given a legitimate first line winger.
that's just plain not true. He's had Recchi, Hossa, Malone, Sykora and Guerin. Malone and Sykora ended up playing with Geno and performed better there -- and Neal is obviously playing with Geno now -- but they were all brought in to be "wingers for Sid." And he still has Kunitz.

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07-31-2012, 04:46 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
i can understand people not wanting to overpay for doan, and preferring instead to wait for better value, ie ufas next offseason or acquiring a player via trade this season.

but what if such opportunities never present themselves? ie the ufa crop dries up like it has this offseason, or like 28 of 30 teams are in the playoff hunt come deadline and prices are thru the roof. what then? i dont see too many trades like the neal deal available-- it was a fairly unique situation.

is there a time and a place to "overpay" for someone? the penguins window to win the cup will never be greater than it is right now.

i think there might be a time where it's appropriate, and doan, due to his leadership/physicality/intangibles could be that guy.

on a similar train of thought, shero is obviously not one to overpay for players. however, if for whatever reason he did finally overpay for someone, i really think a guy like doan or iginla are the two players hed be willing change his tactics for. those two are very much-shero type players, which is why i can convince myself that shero might overpay for him.
All reasonable points. I could see this as being the type of guy Shero overpays for... and it's not the worst idea ever compared to some of the people we've talked about (Semin, Kostitsyn, guys from prior years like Versteeg), but I still wouldn't feel good about a 4 year deal, unless that hit was more like $5M instead of 7. Hell, front load it, pay him $10M the first year, I don't care... but those last couple years have to come down to make it a reasonable value.

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07-31-2012, 04:47 PM
  #236
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I don't think Doan at 6M or so is ideal, but its something I think we should do if its actually possible. 7M+ is too much.

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07-31-2012, 04:48 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
All reasonable points. I could see this as being the type of guy Shero overpays for... and it's not the worst idea ever compared to some of the people we've talked about (Semin, Kostitsyn, guys from prior years like Versteeg), but I still wouldn't feel good about a 4 year deal, unless that hit was more like $5M instead of 7.
yeah i dont know the answer either. i dont want to overpay for doan, but i also dont want sid to start the season with lame wingers. i have faith in shero to figure it out.

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07-31-2012, 04:48 PM
  #238
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Ogre: 7 is what he wants according to TSN. Maybe that's posturing, maybe it's not... but whatever it is, what it isn't is a good value.

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07-31-2012, 04:50 PM
  #239
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Just say no to Doan for 4 years over 5.5mil caphit.

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07-31-2012, 04:51 PM
  #240
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Ogre: 7 is what he wants according to TSN. Maybe that's posturing, maybe it's not... but whatever it is, what it isn't is a good value.
right, just going on the rumor that we offered him 6 and the rumors that we are still in the running. That's why I said the "if it's possible" part.

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07-31-2012, 04:54 PM
  #241
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damn rumors...

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07-31-2012, 05:07 PM
  #242
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Another reason to like Douglas Murray (weren't some of you guys talking him up recently?):

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...8133--nhl.html

Quote:
Well, good call on going with Murray then, because guys don't get much more stable than he is. At 6-3, 240 pounds, the man is practically an immovable object.

They have a lot in common too. Both are Swedish. Both are 32. Both only pick up a golf club when something's gone wrong. Plus, by dating a Shark, Nordegren doesn't have to worry that the guy's personality will be poisoned by a steady stream of championships.


Ouch.

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07-31-2012, 05:10 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Another reason to like Douglas Murray (weren't some of you guys talking him up recently?):

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...8133--nhl.html
I like him if he can let us trade Niskanen or Martin. I don't like him if all he does is block our young guys. If we don't give rookie D-men a chance then I will really have to question Shero's plans going forward. Engelland and Lovejoy got their chance, it's Strait, Bortuzzo and/or Despres' turn.

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07-31-2012, 05:14 PM
  #244
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Murray's a rock but he lacks footspeed and he's ideally a #5 at this point.


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07-31-2012, 05:14 PM
  #245
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I like him if he can let us trade Niskanen or Martin. I don't like him if all he does is block our young guys on the 3rd pairing. If we don't give rookie D-men a chance then I will really have to question Shero's plans going forward. Engelland and Lovejoy got their chance, it's Strait, Bortuzzo and/or Despres' turn.
I like him as a mid-season/deadline player. Bring him in for the playoff stretch. Let the young guys get some seasoning the first half of the season.

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07-31-2012, 05:15 PM
  #246
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Also from Yahoo Sports: decoding Olympic Beach Volleyball hand signals.

Shockingly, the author did not get this one correct. Probably NSFW but no nudity.

http://sports.yahoo.com/photos/olymp...343743789.html

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07-31-2012, 05:18 PM
  #247
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I like him as a mid-season/deadline player. Bring him in for the playoff stretch. Let the young guys get some seasoning the first half of the season.
ya I'd be alright with that though I have a feeling Despres will not need to be replaced by then. I think our weakness will be having two soft guys more than any individual weak link.

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07-31-2012, 05:34 PM
  #248
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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I think he was more pointing to the fact that this will be Sid's 8th year in the league and he still hasn't been given a legitimate first line winger.
This qualifier sort of contradicts that, though:

Quote:
especially when you consider that the guy signed a cap-friendly long-term contract and is still acclimating to the NHL after a very long layoff.
But even if he somehow doesn't mean that, it's pretty goofy to criticize Shero for not getting "Sid's winger". Shero went out and got a fantastic scoring winger...his name was James Neal. The only problem is that Crosby was hurt for much longer than anticipated, and Neal and Malkin had instant chemistry.

Long-term, legitimate top 6 wingers better than Kunitz do not grow on trees, and Shero's had very little in the way of disposable assets or cap room (with Staal here) to acquire them. The fact that Shero pulled off the Neal trade alone is amazing...how many GMs can say they've pulled off a robbery like that? That's why it irks me to no end that some people simply expect Shero to just pull another one out of his hat at will.

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07-31-2012, 05:47 PM
  #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Long-term, legitimate top 6 wingers better than Kunitz do not grow on trees, and Shero's had very little in the way of disposable assets or cap room (with Staal here) to acquire them. The fact that Shero pulled off the Neal trade alone is amazing...how many GMs can say they've pulled off a robbery like that? That's why it irks me to no end that some people simply expect Shero to just pull another one out of his hat at will.
Agreed. I mentioned in the last thread that it's starting to seem like some people expect the Pens to have a stud at every position on the roster. It's just not going to happen whether we have the cap space or not. Other teams do exist and they're all trying to get those same top players that we're hoping for. There's a lot of "world revolves around Pittsburgh" homerism happening on here lately.

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07-31-2012, 05:56 PM
  #250
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We need a guys who's gonna take the younger guys under their wing and teach them the ins and outs like Sydor, Boucher, Eaton.

I mean guys holding down the 7th/8th spot are not going to get significant minutes unless there are injuries and do you really want some of the youngsters to be wasted away like that? They need playing time.

With who they have ready, and who they have near ready, are any of you going to be soured about losing Strait, Bortuzzo or Lovejoy? Ready doesn't necessarily mean they're their only option.

I don't see one D-man who I consider a take under his wing kind of guy except maybe Martin. I don't see Orpik/Engelland in that role and the rest are too young.

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