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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part XXII: Doan Go Breakin My Heart Edition

View Poll Results: So where do you think we go from here?
RayRay will sign a UFA quality wing in the preseason 4 2.67%
RayRay will sign a UFA grinder because thatís just how we roll 13 8.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a quality wing 19 12.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a grinder 2 1.33%
RayRay will give Adams a $11.5 million raise. 22 14.67%
RayRay will swing a trade deadline trade for a quality wing 62 41.33%
RayRay will buy himself $12 million of bling and rock this house 10 6.67%
Who gives a ****? Edward and Bella broke up, OMG 18 12.00%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-31-2012, 05:57 PM
  #251
farscape1
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Has Tangradi signed yet? He being a RFA i was wondering what the deadline is for that and what if he doesnt accept the contract the Pens gave him.

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07-31-2012, 05:59 PM
  #252
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Agreed. I mentioned in the last thread that it's starting to seem like some people expect the Pens to have a stud at every position on the roster. It's just not going to happen whether we have the cap space or not. Other teams do exist and they're all trying to get those same top players that we're hoping for. There's a lot of "world revolves around Pittsburgh" homerism happening on here lately.
Really though. Before the Staal trade, we were handcuffed in terms of both assets and cap space, but Shero still found a way to land us a 24 year old, 40 goal, 80 point power forward, then sign him for 6 years at a great rate.

We're now just a fraction over a month into a post-Staal Penguins where we actually have enough cap slack and assets to acquire another winger, and people are lamenting that we haven't found a better long-term winger than Kunitz for Sid "yet".

Mind-boggling.

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07-31-2012, 06:06 PM
  #253
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I gotta say. Im a little surprised kristian huselius is still unsigned. Hes had to have some offers by now. I remember watching him with the Flames, he was fun to watch.

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07-31-2012, 06:12 PM
  #254
Til the End of Time
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Really though. Before the Staal trade, we were handcuffed in terms of both assets and cap space, but Shero still found a way to land us a 24 year old, 40 goal, 80 point power forward, then sign him for 6 years at a great rate.

We're now just a fraction over a month into a post-Staal Penguins where we actually have enough cap slack and assets to acquire another winger, and people are lamenting that we haven't found a better long-term winger than Kunitz for Sid "yet".

Mind-boggling.
its not that strange. you have the best player in the world, who has routinely had sub-par wingers. hes never had an above average winger for more than ~25 games. the team previously relied on the 3 center model, which is now the 2 center model. you now have money to spend. add in the fact that he just signed a discount deal for your team.

logic suggests you get a winger for sid.

its not a huge deal now, because its the offseason. shero has time to find a winger. but if people expect sid to win scoring titles and lead this team to a cup, he needs better linemates.

also as a sid fan, i want him to win scoring titles. 1 art ross in 7 seasons for a guy of his talent is crap. sure injuries, blah blah, but hes better than 1 in 7 seasons. these are his prime years, i dont want to look back at his career in a decade and hear people say "great player, but not top-10 all time, largely due to his subpar wingers." if that means overpaying for someone, frankly i dont care that much.

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07-31-2012, 06:24 PM
  #255
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
its not that strange. you have the best player in the world, who has routinely had sub-par wingers. hes never had an above average winger for more than ~25 games. the team previously relied on the 3 center model, which is now the 2 center model. you now have money to spend. add in the fact that he just signed a discount deal for your team.

logic suggests you get a winger for sid.

its not a huge deal now, because its the offseason. shero has time to find a winger. but if people expect sid to win scoring titles and lead this team to a cup, he needs better linemates.

also as a sid fan, i want him to win scoring titles. 1 art ross in 7 seasons for a guy of his talent is crap. sure injuries, blah blah, but hes better than 1 in 7 seasons. these are his prime years, i dont want to look back at his career in a decade and hear people say "great player, but not top-10 all time, largely due to his subpar wingers." if that means overpaying for someone, frankly i dont care that much.
He's had Kunitz since 2009. Kunitz is well above average.

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07-31-2012, 06:29 PM
  #256
Til the End of Time
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
He's had Kunitz since 2009. Kunitz is well above average.
i think thats an exaggeration. hes like a slightly above average top 6 winger, maybe even average.

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07-31-2012, 06:30 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
i think thats an exaggeration. hes like a slightly above average top 6 winger, maybe even average.
An average top 6 winger is a well above average winger. Just on pure production, Kunitz sits right around the 25-35 spot for wingers in the NHL. Now there are guys that produce worse than him that are better and guys that produce better than him that are worse. Either way, you can't just ignore Kunitz when saying Sid has had bad wingers. Hell, Malone and Sykora were above average wingers. It's not Shero's fault they played better with Geno than Sid.

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07-31-2012, 06:33 PM
  #258
Til the End of Time
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
An average top 6 winger is a well above average winger.
alright, semantics, whatever.

how about this. sid has never had an above average top-6 winger for more than a portion of a season.

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07-31-2012, 06:36 PM
  #259
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alright, semantics, whatever.

how about this. sid has never had an above average top-6 winger for more than a portion of a season.
I still disagree. I edited my last post.

He's never had a great winger for more than a portion of the season.

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07-31-2012, 06:39 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
He's had Kunitz since 2009. Kunitz is well above average.
Last year 39 wingers had a higher PPG than Kunitz. The year before 37 did. Only one other of those players got to play with Crosby or Malkin. I'd say that he is an average 1st line winger.

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07-31-2012, 06:43 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
Last year 39 wingers had a higher PPG than Kunitz. The year before 37 did. Only one other of those players got to play with Crosby or Malkin. I'd say that he is an average 1st line winger.
fine. I'm just sick of people saying he's had bad wings without even mentioning that he's had a really good one on his line for years now. Anyone pining for another James Neal better be prepared for a long wait because there aren't many of them out there and they almost never become available. Hell, James Neal didn't look anything like the guy we got before this year. To get guys like him you basically have to get lucky with a player breaking out and fitting in with our centers. I for one will be thrilled if we can get another guy as good as Kunitz. We don't need more great goal scorers as much as we need more guys to help us control the game and make us harder to play against. The good news is, those second guys are easier to come by than the first.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 07-31-2012 at 06:49 PM.
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07-31-2012, 06:44 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
its not that strange. you have the best player in the world, who has routinely had sub-par wingers. hes never had an above average winger for more than ~25 games. the team previously relied on the 3 center model, which is now the 2 center model. you now have money to spend. add in the fact that he just signed a discount deal for your team.

logic suggests you get a winger for sid.

its not a huge deal now, because its the offseason. shero has time to find a winger. but if people expect sid to win scoring titles and lead this team to a cup, he needs better linemates.

also as a sid fan, i want him to win scoring titles. 1 art ross in 7 seasons for a guy of his talent is crap. sure injuries, blah blah, but hes better than 1 in 7 seasons. these are his prime years, i dont want to look back at his career in a decade and hear people say "great player, but not top-10 all time, largely due to his subpar wingers." if that means overpaying for someone, frankly i dont care that much.
There's the rub, which is why I emphasized it earlier.

We didn't have the cap space or disposable assets to acquire a second bona-fide top line scoring winger until June 22, 2012. It's only been a little over a month.

People who are pissed that Shero hasn't gotten Sid a winger "yet" are failing to recognize the extenuating circumstances.

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07-31-2012, 06:55 PM
  #263
Til the End of Time
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
There's the rub, which is why I emphasized it earlier.

We didn't have the cap space or disposable assets to acquire a second bona-fide top line scoring winger until June 22, 2012. It's only been a little over a month.

People who are pissed that Shero hasn't gotten Sid a winger "yet" are failing to recognize the extenuating circumstances.
thats fine, but if we are having this same conversation at the start of the season, at the deadline, or worse yet, next offseason, then can people be upset?

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07-31-2012, 07:00 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
Last year 39 wingers had a higher PPG than Kunitz. The year before 37 did. Only one other of those players got to play with Crosby or Malkin. I'd say that he is an average 1st line winger.
That's actually not bad considering there are 120 "top 6" wingers in the NHL. So that's top 3rd territory in terms of PPG by top 6 wingers.

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07-31-2012, 07:01 PM
  #265
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thats fine, but if we are having this same conversation at the start of the season, at the deadline, or worse yet, next offseason, then can people be upset?
I think the start of the season would still be really early to be upset. These guys are not easy to get.

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07-31-2012, 07:02 PM
  #266
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That's actually not bad considering there are 120 "top 6" wingers in the NHL. So that's top 3rd territory in terms of PPG by top 6 wingers.
indeed. He's a really good player.

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07-31-2012, 07:12 PM
  #267
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thats fine, but if we are having this same conversation at the start of the season, at the deadline, or worse yet, next offseason, then can people be upset?
If we're having this conversation next off-season, then sure, people will have every right to be upset. But I can't imagine Shero will go that long before picking up another legitimate scoring winger. We have the assets and the cap space, we simply have to wait for the right deal.

Bennett/Tangradi emergence notwithstanding.

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07-31-2012, 07:22 PM
  #268
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An average top 6 winger is a well above average winger. Just on pure production, Kunitz sits right around the 25-35 spot for wingers in the NHL. Now there are guys that produce worse than him that are better and guys that produce better than him that are worse. Either way, you can't just ignore Kunitz when saying Sid has had bad wingers. Hell, Malone and Sykora were above average wingers. It's not Shero's fault they played better with Geno than Sid.
On just about any other team than the Pens, Kunitz is an average 2nd liner who puts up 50 points. I really don't think he is a top 25-35 winger to be honest.... but playing alongside Sid/Geno definitely elevates his game.

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07-31-2012, 07:26 PM
  #269
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I gotta say. Im a little surprised kristian useless is still unsigned. Hes had to have some offers by now. I remember watching him with the Flames, he was fun to watch.
Fixed.

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07-31-2012, 07:30 PM
  #270
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On just about any other team than the Pens, Kunitz is an average 2nd liner who puts up 50 points. I really don't think he is a top 25-35 winger to be honest.... but playing alongside Sid/Geno definitely elevates his game.
It's already been established that Kunitz is consistently about 40th among wingers in points-per-game, which alone would make him an average 2nd line winger. That's ignoring some of the most coveted aspects of his game, namely his defense and physicality.

I'd call him a low-end 1st line winger.

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07-31-2012, 07:32 PM
  #271
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Just because every team employes 4 wingers on the top 2 lines doesn't mean there are 120 top 6 caliber wingers. It's the same as claiming there are 60 top-pairing d, 30 number 1 centers and so forth.

Kunitz is a solid winger, not great but certainly not bad by any means. Preferably if he's on your top line, he is the third best player on that line, as was the case last year playing with Geno and Neal. When he's the clear-cut number 2 and the 3rd leg is Dupuis, that's a bit disconcerting. If a line consisting of Dupuis and Kunitz had only a good center like a Krejci or Riberio instead of an elite one like Sid, you'd have a bit of a problem, but Sid can make the line work. I'd prefer an upgrade at the 3rd leg position of Sid's line as much as or even moreso than an upgrade over Kunitz.

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07-31-2012, 07:33 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
On just about any other team than the Pens, Kunitz is an average 2nd liner who puts up 50 points. I really don't think he is a top 25-35 winger to be honest.... but playing alongside Sid/Geno definitely elevates his game.
being able to elevate his game with Sid and Geno can't be ignored though. It's not something that you can always expect to happen. Feds, Satan and Poni being examples of that.

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07-31-2012, 07:34 PM
  #273
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Just because every team employes 4 wingers on the top 2 lines doesn't mean there are 120 top 6 caliber wingers. It's the same as claiming there are 60 top-pairing d, 30 number 1 centers and so forth.

Kunitz is a solid winger, not great but certainly not bad by any means. Preferably if he's on your top line, he is the third best player on that line, as was the case last year playing with Geno and Neal. When he's the clear-cut number 2 and the 3rd leg is Dupuis, that's a bit disconcerting.
when you are talking about how good an average top 6 winger is then yes you absolutely assume there are 120 top 6 wingers. If you take every team's top 6 wingers Kunitz is above average.

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07-31-2012, 07:39 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
It's already been established that Kunitz is consistently about 40th among wingers in points-per-game, which alone would make him an average 2nd line winger. That's ignoring some of the most coveted aspects of his game, namely his defense and physicality.

I'd call him a low-end 1st line winger.
Ya that's about what I'd say. The thing is, we have two first line centers so people want us to get 4 first line wings. That is not an easy thing to do.

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07-31-2012, 07:52 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
It's already been established that Kunitz is consistently about 40th among wingers in points-per-game, which alone would make him an average 2nd line winger. That's ignoring some of the most coveted aspects of his game, namely his defense and physicality.

I'd call him a low-end 1st line winger.
Agree to disagree. Durability problems definitely weigh in my decision too.

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